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DOT.COM

 
 
Ted
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-25-2012
On Apr 25, 11:03*am, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> wrote:
> On 24/04/12 22:44, Ted wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 24, 11:21 am, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> *wrote:
> >> On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:

>
> >>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> * *wrote:
> >>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:

>
> >>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus>
> >>>>> shouted from the highest rooftop:

>
> >>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:

>
> >>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement
> >>>>>>> with the usual "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a
> >>>>>>> full answer or they refuse to answer I'll take it
> >>>>>>> further.

>
> >>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi
> >>>>>> polloi having such information?

>
> >>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and
> >>>>> consultants always know what's best for us. *We should just
> >>>>> leave them to get on with telling us whatever that happens to
> >>>>> be ...

>
> >>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the
> >>>> point of giving the followers information that they don't
> >>>> need?

>
> >>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
> >>> aspirations to the former?

>
> >>> Just asking.

>
> >> Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point
> >> in disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the
> >> government I'd be making something up right now. After all the
> >> whole Dot Com operation was funded by the recording industries,
> >> mainly in the state and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also
> >> a good exercise, the benefits of which will be realised when the
> >> government gets around to incarcerating all the communists and
> >> camp-followers like yourself.

>
> > Could this be described as "fascism"?

>
> Or communism, or democracy, or dictatorship, or plutocracy, or monarchy,
> or republicanism. The end result of all these systems is 'rulers' and
> 'ruled'.


Until there's a revolution. You still end up with rulers and ruled,
but a different lot. Plus, with a revolution, a lot of trouble.

Elections are better; fewer people killed.

>
> Cheers,
>
> Cliff
>
> --
>
> The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.
>
> The end excuses any evil - Sophocles


 
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Ted
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-25-2012
On Apr 25, 11:09*am, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> wrote:
> On 25/04/12 09:34, Ted wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 25, 8:42 am, Donchano<(E-Mail Removed)> *wrote:
> >> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 22:27:27 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> *shouted from
> >> the highest rooftop:

>
> >>> On 24/04/12 17:26, Donchano wrote:

>
> >>>> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:10:27 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> * *shouted
> >>>> from the highest rooftop:

>
> >>>>> On 24/04/12 11:38, Donchano wrote:

>
> >>>>>> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:21:20 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus>
> >>>>>> shouted from the highest rooftop:

>
> >>>>>>> On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> * * *wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:

>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus>
> >>>>>>>>>> shouted from the highest rooftop:

>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:

>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement
> >>>>>>>>>>>> with the usual "in due course" proviso. If I don't
> >>>>>>>>>>>> get a full answer or they refuse to answer I'll take
> >>>>>>>>>>>> it further.

>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi
> >>>>>>>>>>> polloi having such information?

>
> >>>>>>>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians
> >>>>>>>>>> and consultants always know what's best for us. *We
> >>>>>>>>>> should just leave them to get on with telling us whatever
> >>>>>>>>>> that happens to be ...

>
> >>>>>>>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the
> >>>>>>>>> point of giving the followers information that they don't
> >>>>>>>>> need?

>
> >>>>>>>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you
> >>>>>>>> have aspirations to the former?

>
> >>>>>>>> Just asking.

>
> >>>>>>> Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no
> >>>>>>> point in disseminating useless information to everyone. If I
> >>>>>>> were the government I'd be making something up right now. After
> >>>>>>> all the whole Dot Com operation was funded by the recording
> >>>>>>> industries, mainly in the state and won't cost New Zealand a
> >>>>>>> cent. It was also a good exercise, the benefits of which will
> >>>>>>> be realised when the government gets around to incarcerating
> >>>>>>> all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.

>
> >>>>>> That's your opinion. OPINION. And not only don't I agree with it,
> >>>>>> it's my opinion that you're not correct about the money - or at
> >>>>>> least NZD 70,000.

>
> >>>>> It's the governments job to spend the money. Not yours. If you
> >>>>> don't like it, form your own party and get yourself elected. Good
> >>>>> luck to you.

>
> >>>> Again, that's just your opinion. And a rather puerile one at that
> >>>> IMO. And if you really think you have to be elected before you can
> >>>> make a difference, then you obviously haven't tried.

>
> >>> No. You have to get control before you can make a difference. Getting
> >>> elected is how we currently get control. If you don't have control all
> >>> you can do is make bleating noises. You will just be ignored.

>
> >> My personal experience is obviously different than yours ... and I'm
> >> very thankful they are.

>
> >>>>> Anyway, it is not my opinion, in lower case or in capitals. It is
> >>>>> the truth, and if you can't handle the truth, stay out of the
> >>>>> game.

>
> >>>>>> But unlike you, I intend to find out the facts so at least I form
> >>>>>> an informed decision. If you're not interested in them then
> >>>>>> ignore them - like you did the article .

>
> >>>>> [Irrelevant stuff snipped].

>
> >>>> Wouldn't want to confuse you with facts.

>
> >>> It was irrelevant. What was done and what it cost is irrelevant. Of
> >>> course, if it gives you pleasure to feel outraged for some reason, feel
> >>> free. Some people get pleasure from the strangest things.

>
> >>>>> Why? What on earth are you going to do with your 'informed
> >>>>> decision'? Write a stiff letter to your MP? Wave a placard? Tell
> >>>>> other people?

>
> >>>> As I've already said, I'll let you know after I get the information.
> >>>> You might be happy being one of the flock, but I'm not.

>
> >>> There's two sorts of sheep. Those who quietly munch grass and get on
> >>> with being sheep, and there's those that spend their time bleating. I
> >>> guess that they are the ones that aren't happy being one of the flock,
> >>> but in spite of their noise, they are still are.

>
> >> And what kind of sheep are you?

>
> > The sort that's on the way to the works, I think.

>
> *>
> We are all on that trip.


Some trips are shorter than others.

>
> Cheers,
>
> Cliff
>
> --
>
> The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.
>
> The end excuses any evil - Sophocles


 
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Liberty Pantry-Rhymer
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-25-2012
On , , Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:32:25 -0700 (PDT), Re: DOT.COM, Ted
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Apr 24, 2:10*pm, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> wrote:
>> On 24/04/12 11:38, Donchano wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:21:20 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> *shouted from
>> > the highest rooftop:

>>
>> >> On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
>> >>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> * wrote:
>> >>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:

>>
>> >>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> * * shouted from
>> >>>>> the highest rooftop:

>>
>> >>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:

>>
>> >>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
>> >>>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
>> >>>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.

>>
>> >>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
>> >>>>>> such information?

>>
>> >>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
>> >>>>> always know what's best for us. *We should just leave them to get on
>> >>>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ...

>>
>> >>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
>> >>>> giving the followers information that they don't need?

>>
>> >>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
>> >>> aspirations to the former?

>>
>> >>> Just asking.

>>
>> >> Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point in
>> >> disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the government
>> >> I'd be making something up right now. After all the whole Dot Com
>> >> operation was funded by the recording industries, mainly in the state
>> >> and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also a good exercise, the
>> >> benefits of which will be realised when the government gets around to
>> >> incarcerating all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.

>>
>> > That's your opinion. OPINION. And not only don't I agree with it, it's
>> > my opinion that you're not correct about the money - or at least NZD
>> > 70,000.

>>
>> It's the governments job to spend the money. Not yours. If you don't
>> like it, form your own party and get yourself elected. Good luck to you.
>>
>> Anyway, it is not my opinion, in lower case or in capitals. It is the
>> truth, and if you can't handle the truth, stay out of the game.
>>
>> > But unlike you, I intend to find out the facts so at least I form an
>> > informed decision. If you're not interested in them then ignore them -
>> > like you did the article .

>>
>> [Irrelevant stuff snipped].
>>
>> Why? What on earth are you going to do with your 'informed decision'?
>> Write a stiff letter to your MP? Wave a placard? Tell other people?

>
>Vote appropriately at the next election.


You don't honestly think they would let us vote if it made any difference, do
you?
 
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Liberty Pantry-Rhymer
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-25-2012
On , , Tue, 24 Apr 2012 03:38:30 -0700 (PDT), Re: DOT.COM, Ted
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Apr 24, 10:28*pm, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> wrote:
>> On 24/04/12 17:32, Ted wrote:
>>
>> >> Why? What on earth are you going to do with your 'informed decision'?
>> >> Write a stiff letter to your MP? Wave a placard? Tell other people?

>>
>> > Vote appropriately at the next election.

>>
>> Fine. Is that supposed to make any difference?

>
>Yes.


I admire your faith in the electoral system.
 
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Ted
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-25-2012
On Apr 25, 1:20*pm, Liberty Pantry-Rhymer
<(E-Mail Removed).> wrote:
> On , , Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:32:25 -0700 (PDT), Re: DOT.COM, Ted
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >On Apr 24, 2:10*pm, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> wrote:
> >> On 24/04/12 11:38, Donchano wrote:

>
> >> > On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:21:20 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> *shouted from
> >> > the highest rooftop:

>
> >> >> On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
> >> >>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> * wrote:
> >> >>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:

>
> >> >>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> * *shouted from
> >> >>>>> the highest rooftop:

>
> >> >>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:

>
> >> >>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with theusual
> >> >>>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
> >> >>>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.

>
> >> >>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
> >> >>>>>> such information?

>
> >> >>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
> >> >>>>> always know what's best for us. *We should just leave them to get on
> >> >>>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ...

>
> >> >>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
> >> >>>> giving the followers information that they don't need?

>
> >> >>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
> >> >>> aspirations to the former?

>
> >> >>> Just asking.

>
> >> >> Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point in
> >> >> disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the government
> >> >> I'd be making something up right now. After all the whole Dot Com
> >> >> operation was funded by the recording industries, mainly in the state
> >> >> and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also a good exercise, the
> >> >> benefits of which will be realised when the government gets around to
> >> >> incarcerating all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.

>
> >> > That's your opinion. OPINION. And not only don't I agree with it, it's
> >> > my opinion that you're not correct about the money - or at least NZD
> >> > 70,000.

>
> >> It's the governments job to spend the money. Not yours. If you don't
> >> like it, form your own party and get yourself elected. Good luck to you.

>
> >> Anyway, it is not my opinion, in lower case or in capitals. It is the
> >> truth, and if you can't handle the truth, stay out of the game.

>
> >> > But unlike you, I intend to find out the facts so at least I form an
> >> > informed decision. If you're not interested in them then ignore them-
> >> > like you did the article .

>
> >> [Irrelevant stuff snipped].

>
> >> Why? What on earth are you going to do with your 'informed decision'?
> >> Write a stiff letter to your MP? Wave a placard? Tell other people?

>
> >Vote appropriately at the next election.

>
> You don't honestly think they would let us vote if it made any difference, do
> you?


Honestly? No...

But we need to keep trying. Things don't always go to plan, even if
you're a "Leader". We might get lucky.
 
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Ted
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-25-2012
On Apr 25, 1:21*pm, Liberty Pantry-Rhymer
<(E-Mail Removed).> wrote:
> On , , Tue, 24 Apr 2012 03:38:30 -0700 (PDT), Re: DOT.COM, Ted
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >On Apr 24, 10:28*pm, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> wrote:
> >> On 24/04/12 17:32, Ted wrote:

>
> >> >> Why? What on earth are you going to do with your 'informed decision'?
> >> >> Write a stiff letter to your MP? Wave a placard? Tell other people?

>
> >> > Vote appropriately at the next election.

>
> >> Fine. Is that supposed to make any difference?

>
> >Yes.

>
> I admire your faith in the electoral system.


What else do we have?
 
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Donchano
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-25-2012

On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:06:28 +1200, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> shouted from
the highest rooftop:

>>>>> It's the governments job to spend the money. Not yours. If you
>>>>> don't like it, form your own party and get yourself elected. Good
>>>>> luck to you.
>>>>
>>>> Again, that's just your opinion. And a rather puerile one at that
>>>> IMO. And if you really think you have to be elected before you can
>>>> make a difference, then you obviously haven't tried.
>>>>
>>> No. You have to get control before you can make a difference. Getting
>>> elected is how we currently get control. If you don't have control all
>>> you can do is make bleating noises. You will just be ignored.

>>
>> My personal experience is obviously different than yours ... and I'm
>> very thankful they are.
> >

>Yeah right. What significant changes to the country have you personally
>caused, by yourself, by your own efforts?


OK. Here are a few that come to mind:

In California:

1. Going back to the days I lived in California, I organized the team,
tables, places and times that generated over 5,000 signatures on a
petition to oppose a proposal to put in an offshore causeway from
Santa Monica, CA to Oxnard, CA. Long story, but after getting the
combined petitions with over 50,000 signatures, the State turned down
the causeway proposal despite it being supported by the City of Santa
Monica, the council, surrounding cities, influential newspapers, oil
companies and their lobbyists:

http://www.surfsantamonica.com/ssm_s...in_the_Sea.htm

In New Zealand:

1. Part of the team whose legal challenge led to a change in the
regulations that governed weekend trading so that businesses like ours
could trade on full days over weekends . Before that our business was
restricted to being open a half-day on Saturday and not at all on
Sundays. In turn, that victory set the legal precedent so that now
every business can trade all day on weekends if they choose.

2. Stopping the highrise commercial development of Onetangi Beach on
Waiheke Island and a change in the district plan that would see all
the beachfront re-zoned commercial. The principles I was instrumental
in establishing with Auckland City Council have been part of the
district planning strategy ever since.

3. Stopping the council from allowing a rose garden along The Strand
on Onetangi Beach to be turned into a tennis court for a private club.
The land had been gifted to the "people of Waiheke" as a rose garden
"to be enjoyed by everyone." Digging it up and using it for a private
tennis court would have betrayed the benefactor's wishes and those of
his descendants (who opposed the plan).

4. Mounting a legal challenge in the form of a ratepayers' petition to
stop the (then) Waiheke County Council from taking out a huge loan
they weren't authorised to borrow without a poll of ratepayers. Can't
remember the exact number, but IIRC we were required to get the
signature of at least 60% of registered ratepayers and we got more
than that. As a result the loan application had to be withdrawn, the
council firmly admonished by the local government minister and the
local government act tightened up.

5. Led the ratepayer initiative to replace "pro-commercial development
at any cost" councillors with "pro-sustainable growth" councillors on
the (then) Waiheke County Council.

6. Led the ratepayer campaign to get rid of council bureaucrats who
were a bit to chummy with commercial interests, such as developers
and contractors. The county manager was the first to go.

7. Helping to stop the commercial development of a prime beachfront
area in the coastal community where my wife and I now live and getting
the reserve land usurped by commercial interests reinstated as public
reserve.

Over the years I've written numerous submissions and spoken to those
submissions or given evidence before numerous commissions, committees
and courts. Some battles were lost and others won. But the way I look
at it, you can't make a difference unless you at least try.

Speaking of which, what significant changes to the country have you
personally achieved with your cynicism and apathy?


 
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Enkidu
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-25-2012
On 25/04/12 11:13, Donchano wrote:
>
> On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:09:51 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
> the highest rooftop:
>
>>>> And what kind of sheep are you?
>>>
>>> The sort that's on the way to the works, I think.
>>>

>> We are all on that trip.

>
> Speak for yourself ... if that's possible.
>

You are going to live forever? What other delusions do you have?

Cheers,

Cliff

--

The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
 
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Enkidu
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-25-2012
On 25/04/12 13:06, Ted wrote:
> On Apr 25, 11:03 am, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
>> On 24/04/12 22:44, Ted wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 24, 11:21 am, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
>>>> On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:

>>
>>>>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
>>>>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:

>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus>
>>>>>>> shouted from the highest rooftop:

>>
>>>>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:

>>
>>>>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement
>>>>>>>>> with the usual "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a
>>>>>>>>> full answer or they refuse to answer I'll take it
>>>>>>>>> further.

>>
>>>>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi
>>>>>>>> polloi having such information?

>>
>>>>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and
>>>>>>> consultants always know what's best for us. We should just
>>>>>>> leave them to get on with telling us whatever that happens to
>>>>>>> be ...

>>
>>>>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the
>>>>>> point of giving the followers information that they don't
>>>>>> need?

>>
>>>>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
>>>>> aspirations to the former?

>>
>>>>> Just asking.

>>
>>>> Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point
>>>> in disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the
>>>> government I'd be making something up right now. After all the
>>>> whole Dot Com operation was funded by the recording industries,
>>>> mainly in the state and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also
>>>> a good exercise, the benefits of which will be realised when the
>>>> government gets around to incarcerating all the communists and
>>>> camp-followers like yourself.

>>
>>> Could this be described as "fascism"?

>>
>> Or communism, or democracy, or dictatorship, or plutocracy, or monarchy,
>> or republicanism. The end result of all these systems is 'rulers' and
>> 'ruled'.

>
> Until there's a revolution. You still end up with rulers and ruled,
> but a different lot. Plus, with a revolution, a lot of trouble.
>
> Elections are better; fewer people killed.
>

LOL! The best justification for holding elections that I've seen!

Cheers,

Cliff

--

The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
 
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Donchano
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-25-2012

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:31:54 +1200, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> shouted from
the highest rooftop:

>On 25/04/12 11:13, Donchano wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:09:51 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
>> the highest rooftop:
>>
>>>>> And what kind of sheep are you?
>>>>
>>>> The sort that's on the way to the works, I think.
>>>>
>>> We are all on that trip.

>>
>> Speak for yourself ... if that's possible.
>>

>You are going to live forever?


Depends on whether you're referring to my physical being or my
spiritual being. And before you change the subject - which is DOT.COM
- I'm not willing to discuss my beliefs with you.

>What other delusions do you have?


You're very good at jumping to conclusions based entirely on your own
ignorance.
 
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