«

On 24/04/12 08:15, Donchano wrote:
>
> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:03:08 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
> the highest rooftop:
>
>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
>>> the highest rooftop:
>>>
>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.
>>>>>
>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
>>>> such information?
>>>
>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
>>> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ...
>>>
>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
>> giving the followers information that they don't need?
>
> I'll let you know after I get the information.
>
You don't need it.

Cheers,

Cliff

--

The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

The end excuses any evil - Sophocles

On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:16:37 +1200, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> shouted from
the highest rooftop:

>On 24/04/12 08:15, Donchano wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:03:08 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
>> the highest rooftop:
>>
>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
>>>> the highest rooftop:
>>>>
>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
>>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
>>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
>>>>> such information?
>>>>
>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
>>>> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
>>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ...
>>>>
>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
>>> giving the followers information that they don't need?
>>
>> I'll let you know after I get the information.
>>
>You don't need it.

I know. But I will anyway.

On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
>>> the highest rooftop:
>>
>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
>>
>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.
>>
>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
>>>> such information?
>>
>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
>>> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ...
>>
>> >
>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
>> giving the followers information that they don't need?
>
> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
> aspirations to the former?
>
> Just asking.
>
Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point in
disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the government
I'd be making something up right now. After all the whole Dot Com
operation was funded by the recording industries, mainly in the state
and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also a good exercise, the
benefits of which will be realised when the government gets around to
incarcerating all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.

Cheers,

Cliff

--

The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

The end excuses any evil - Sophocles

On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:21:20 +1200, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> shouted from
the highest rooftop:

>On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
>>>> the highest rooftop:
>>>
>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
>>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
>>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.
>>>
>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
>>>>> such information?
>>>
>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
>>>> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
>>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ...
>>>
>>> >
>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
>>> giving the followers information that they don't need?
>>
>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
>> aspirations to the former?
>>
>> Just asking.
>>
>Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point in
>disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the government
>I'd be making something up right now. After all the whole Dot Com
>operation was funded by the recording industries, mainly in the state
>and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also a good exercise, the
>benefits of which will be realised when the government gets around to
>incarcerating all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.

That's your opinion. OPINION. And not only don't I agree with it, it's
my opinion that you're not correct about the money - or at least NZD
70,000.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/?objectID=...ef=emailfriend

But unlike you, I intend to find out the facts so at least I form an
informed decision. If you're not interested in them then ignore them -
like you did the article .



Dotcom arrest costs taxpayer $70,000 - so far

By David Fisher
5:30 AM Wednesday Apr 11, 2012

Taxpayers spent about $70,000 on the operation to arrest Kim Dotcom
and seize his luxury cars and art.

The cost doesn't include the cost of police staff, Crown lawyers
acting on behalf of the United States or time spent in court.

The January 20 raid set in motion the US Department of Justice case
against Dotcom. The United States is trying to extradite Dotcom on
charges of criminal copyright violation relating to his file-sharing
Megaupload website.

Figures gained under the Official Information Act show police
estimated the cost of arresting Dotcom at $11,482. The figure did not
include police salaries.

The cars and luxury items taken from the home set taxpayers back
another $62,271 with $25,000 alone spent on moving Dotcom's more
expensive belongings.

Insurance for the belongings for seven weeks, which include an
estimated $6 million in cars, had cost about $6800 even though they
have been securely shut away in a warehouse since being seized.

Dotcom was an enthusiastic collector of luxury cars, ranging from a
2008 Rolls-Royce Phantom Coupe to a 1959 Cadillac El Dorado. He also
had a collection of late-model Mercedes.

Once prized possessions, the cars are now expected to be auctioned in
a deal struck between Dotcom's lawyers and Crown lawyers acting for
the US.

The auction would be carried out with only a few cars at a time to
avoid devaluing the collection.

Even though the case might be costing taxpayers, New Zealand does
stand to come out ahead if Dotcom is convicted in the US.

The goods are frozen but a successful conviction could see his fortune
forfeited as tainted criminal proceeds.

Official Assignee Guy Sayers said there was no mechanism for funds
seized by Dotcom to be transferred to the US. He said forfeited goods
would be transferred to the New Zealand government and become part of
the Crown accounts.

A failed case by the US would leave the taxpayer exposed. Police
commissioner Peter Marshall last week gave the High Court formal
notice it would be the focus of any liability case by Dotcom if he
were to sue.

Meanwhile, Dotcom has filed legal papers in US courts after moves to
allow Megaupload's databases to be wiped.

Megaupload's members stored their files on more than 1100 computer
servers owned by Carpathia Hosting, the company which was raided by
the FBI as Dotcom was being arrested.

The FBI told Carpathia Hosting it could wipe the servers because
snapshots of data from two of the servers was enough to prosecute
Dotcom and his colleagues.

Carpathia sought a ruling from the court because keeping the data was
costing it money - but deleting it could leave it open to a law suit.

Dotcom said the US government was allowing destruction of evidence to
be used by the defence. He said Megaupload had wanted to buy Carpathia
Hosting's servers for $1.4 million but the Department of Justice would
not relax the freezing order to allow the money to be used.

The court papers state the FBI didn't explore the servers to look for
evidence "beyond loading up to prove its case" and was now trying to
block similar investigations by the defence.

BIG NUMBERS

* $70,000 was spent on the operation to arrest Kim Dotcom and seize
his luxury cars and art.
* This didn't include the cost of police staff, Crown lawyers acting
on behalf of the United States or time spent in court.
* Cars and luxury items taken from the home cost another $62,271.
* $25,000 was spent on moving Dotcom's more expensive belongings.

On 24/04/12 11:38, Donchano wrote:
>
> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:21:20 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
> the highest rooftop:
>
>> On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
>>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
>>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
>>>>> the highest rooftop:
>>>>
>>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
>>>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
>>>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.
>>>>
>>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
>>>>>> such information?
>>>>
>>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
>>>>> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
>>>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ...
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
>>>> giving the followers information that they don't need?
>>>
>>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
>>> aspirations to the former?
>>>
>>> Just asking.
>>>
>> Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point in
>> disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the government
>> I'd be making something up right now. After all the whole Dot Com
>> operation was funded by the recording industries, mainly in the state
>> and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also a good exercise, the
>> benefits of which will be realised when the government gets around to
>> incarcerating all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.
>
> That's your opinion. OPINION. And not only don't I agree with it, it's
> my opinion that you're not correct about the money - or at least NZD
> 70,000.
>
It's the governments job to spend the money. Not yours. If you don't
like it, form your own party and get yourself elected. Good luck to you.

Anyway, it is not my opinion, in lower case or in capitals. It is the
truth, and if you can't handle the truth, stay out of the game.
>
> But unlike you, I intend to find out the facts so at least I form an
> informed decision. If you're not interested in them then ignore them -
> like you did the article .
>
[Irrelevant stuff snipped].

Why? What on earth are you going to do with your 'informed decision'?
Write a stiff letter to your MP? Wave a placard? Tell other people?

Cheers,

Cliff

--

The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

The end excuses any evil - Sophocles

On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:10:27 +1200, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> shouted from
the highest rooftop:

>On 24/04/12 11:38, Donchano wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:21:20 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
>> the highest rooftop:
>>
>>> On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
>>>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
>>>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
>>>>>> the highest rooftop:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
>>>>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
>>>>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
>>>>>>> such information?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
>>>>>> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
>>>>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ...
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
>>>>> giving the followers information that they don't need?
>>>>
>>>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
>>>> aspirations to the former?
>>>>
>>>> Just asking.
>>>>
>>> Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point in
>>> disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the government
>>> I'd be making something up right now. After all the whole Dot Com
>>> operation was funded by the recording industries, mainly in the state
>>> and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also a good exercise, the
>>> benefits of which will be realised when the government gets around to
>>> incarcerating all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.
>>
>> That's your opinion. OPINION. And not only don't I agree with it, it's
>> my opinion that you're not correct about the money - or at least NZD
>> 70,000.
>>
>It's the governments job to spend the money. Not yours. If you don't
>like it, form your own party and get yourself elected. Good luck to you.

Again, that's just your opinion. And a rather puerile one at that IMO.
And if you really think you have to be elected before you can make a
difference, then you obviously haven't tried.

>Anyway, it is not my opinion, in lower case or in capitals. It is the
>truth, and if you can't handle the truth, stay out of the game.
>>
>> But unlike you, I intend to find out the facts so at least I form an
>> informed decision. If you're not interested in them then ignore them -
>> like you did the article .
>>
>[Irrelevant stuff snipped].

Wouldn't want to confuse you with facts.

>Why? What on earth are you going to do with your 'informed decision'?
>Write a stiff letter to your MP? Wave a placard? Tell other people?

As I've already said, I'll let you know after I get the information.
You might be happy being one of the flock, but I'm not.

On Apr 24, 2:10*pm, Enkidu <cliffp@bogus> wrote:
> On 24/04/12 11:38, Donchano wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:21:20 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> *shouted from
> > the highest rooftop:
>
> >> On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
> >>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> * wrote:
> >>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> * * shouted from
> >>>>> the highest rooftop:
>
> >>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
> >>>>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
> >>>>>>> to answer I'll take it further.
>
> >>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
> >>>>>> such information?
>
> >>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
> >>>>> always know what's best for us. *We should just leave them to geton
> >>>>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ...
>
> >>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
> >>>> giving the followers information that they don't need?
>
> >>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you have
> >>> aspirations to the former?
>
> >>> Just asking.
>
> >> Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no point in
> >> disseminating useless information to everyone. If I were the government
> >> I'd be making something up right now. After all the whole Dot Com
> >> operation was funded by the recording industries, mainly in the state
> >> and won't cost New Zealand a cent. It was also a good exercise, the
> >> benefits of which will be realised when the government gets around to
> >> incarcerating all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.
>
> > That's your opinion. OPINION. And not only don't I agree with it, it's
> > my opinion that you're not correct about the money - or at least NZD
> > 70,000.
>
> It's the governments job to spend the money. Not yours. If you don't
> like it, form your own party and get yourself elected. Good luck to you.
>
> Anyway, it is not my opinion, in lower case or in capitals. It is the
> truth, and if you can't handle the truth, stay out of the game.
>
> > But unlike you, I intend to find out the facts so at least I form an
> > informed decision. If you're not interested in them then ignore them -
> > like you did the article .
>
> [Irrelevant stuff snipped].
>
> Why? What on earth are you going to do with your 'informed decision'?
> Write a stiff letter to your MP? Wave a placard? Tell other people?

Vote appropriately at the next election.

>
> Cheers,
>
> Cliff
>
> --
>
> The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.
>
> The end excuses any evil - Sophocles

On 23/04/2012 10:03 p.m., Enkidu wrote:
> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted from
>> the highest rooftop:
>>
>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
>>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
>>>> to answer I'll take it further.
>>>>
>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
>>> such information?
>>
>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians and consultants
>> always know what's best for us. We should just leave them to get on
>> with telling us whatever that happens to be ...
> >
> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the point of
> giving the followers information that they don't need?

The police are leaders?? Surely this is sarcasm.

On 24/04/2012 11:03 a.m., Bruce Sinclair wrote:
> In article<4f9504d3$>, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
>>>
>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement with the usual
>>> "in due course" proviso. If I don't get a full answer or they refuse
>>> to answer I'll take it further.
>>>
>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi polloi having
>> such information?
>
> <chuckle> Thanks for that.
>

Do you think he was making a funny?

On 24/04/12 17:26, Donchano wrote:
>
> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:10:27 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> shouted
> from the highest rooftop:
>
>> On 24/04/12 11:38, Donchano wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:21:20 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus>
>>> shouted from the highest rooftop:
>>>
>>>> On 24/04/12 09:10, JohnO wrote:
>>>>> On Apr 23, 10:03 pm, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus> wrote:
>>>>>> On 23/04/12 21:07, Donchano wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:29:23 +1200, Enkidu<cliffp@bogus>
>>>>>>> shouted from the highest rooftop:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 23/04/12 19:13, Donchano wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Late last week I received a letter of acknowledgement
>>>>>>>>> with the usual "in due course" proviso. If I don't
>>>>>>>>> get a full answer or they refuse to answer I'll take
>>>>>>>>> it further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why? What possible reason is there for letting the hoi
>>>>>>>> polloi having such information?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good point. After all, the pencil pushers, politicians
>>>>>>> and consultants always know what's best for us. We
>>>>>>> should just leave them to get on with telling us whatever
>>>>>>> that happens to be ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> No. There are leaders and there are followers. What is the
>>>>>> point of giving the followers information that they don't
>>>>>> need?
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you a leader or follower Cliff? If the latter, do you
>>>>> have aspirations to the former?
>>>>>
>>>>> Just asking.
>>>>>
>>>> Everyone is a follower. A few are also leaders. There is no
>>>> point in disseminating useless information to everyone. If I
>>>> were the government I'd be making something up right now. After
>>>> all the whole Dot Com operation was funded by the recording
>>>> industries, mainly in the state and won't cost New Zealand a
>>>> cent. It was also a good exercise, the benefits of which will
>>>> be realised when the government gets around to incarcerating
>>>> all the communists and camp-followers like yourself.
>>>
>>> That's your opinion. OPINION. And not only don't I agree with it,
>>> it's my opinion that you're not correct about the money - or at
>>> least NZD 70,000.
>>>
>> It's the governments job to spend the money. Not yours. If you
>> don't like it, form your own party and get yourself elected. Good
>> luck to you.
>
> Again, that's just your opinion. And a rather puerile one at that
> IMO. And if you really think you have to be elected before you can
> make a difference, then you obviously haven't tried.
>
No. You have to get control before you can make a difference. Getting
elected is how we currently get control. If you don't have control all
you can do is make bleating noises. You will just be ignored.
>
>> Anyway, it is not my opinion, in lower case or in capitals. It is
>> the truth, and if you can't handle the truth, stay out of the
>> game.
>>>
>>> But unlike you, I intend to find out the facts so at least I form
>>> an informed decision. If you're not interested in them then
>>> ignore them - like you did the article .
>>>
>> [Irrelevant stuff snipped].
>
> Wouldn't want to confuse you with facts.
>
It was irrelevant. What was done and what it cost is irrelevant. Of
course, if it gives you pleasure to feel outraged for some reason, feel
free. Some people get pleasure from the strangest things.
>
>> Why? What on earth are you going to do with your 'informed
>> decision'? Write a stiff letter to your MP? Wave a placard? Tell
>> other people?
>
> As I've already said, I'll let you know after I get the information.
> You might be happy being one of the flock, but I'm not.
>
There's two sorts of sheep. Those who quietly munch grass and get on
with being sheep, and there's those that spend their time bleating. I
guess that they are the ones that aren't happy being one of the flock,
but in spite of their noise, they are still are.

Cheers,

Cliff

--

The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

The end excuses any evil - Sophocles