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Mozilla and Netscape

 
 
News
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      02-06-2006
I have a page up trying to learn how to ID a browser and other info.

http://wyght.com/warren/testPos.html

here is the code


<script type = "text/javascript">
var space = ", ";
var name = navigator.appName;
var codename = navigator.appCodeName;
var version = navigator.appVersion.substring(0,4);
var platform = navigator.platform;
var MyjavaEnabled = navigator.javaEnabled();
var screenWidth = screen.width;
var screenHeight = screen.height;

document.writeln("<BR>"+name+space+codename+space+ "<BR>");
document.writeln("<BR>"+version+space+platform+spa ce+"<BR>");
document.writeln("<BR>"+MyjavaEnabled+"<BR>"+scree nWidth+space+"<BR>");
document.writeln("<BR>"+screenHeight+space+"<BR>") ;
</script>

I can see no way of knowing if it is a firefox or netscape browser is that
posible?

Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What is
up with that?

--

Totus possum, totum Deum.
Totus ero, totum meum.
WSW


 
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David Dorward
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      02-06-2006
News wrote:

> I have a page up trying to learn how to ID a browser and other info.


Except for (not very accurate) statistical gathering purposes, this
information shouldn't be of any practical use to you. If you are planning
to branch JavaScript based on what different browsers are capable of, then
you should look at the much more reliable object detection.
http://www.quirksmode.org/js/support.html

> I can see no way of knowing if it is a firefox or netscape browser is that
> posible?


Not reliably. These days there is little to choose between them anyway.

> Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What is
> up with that?


Netscape had better JavaScript support then IE. People wrote scripts to
detect this. Microsoft brought out a new version of IE with better
JavaScript support and stuck Mozilla in the agent string so that those
scripts wouldn't ignore IE.

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
 
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Randy Webb
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      02-06-2006
News said the following on 2/6/2006 4:59 PM:
> I have a page up trying to learn how to ID a browser and other info.


Unless it is a purely academical exercise it is a waste of time.

> http://wyght.com/warren/testPos.html


Error:
BrowserInfo is undefined


> here is the code


That is not the code you have on the page you gave the URL to.

>
> <script type = "text/javascript">
> var space = ", ";
> var name = navigator.appName;
> var codename = navigator.appCodeName;
> var version = navigator.appVersion.substring(0,4);
> var platform = navigator.platform;
> var MyjavaEnabled = navigator.javaEnabled();
> var screenWidth = screen.width;
> var screenHeight = screen.height;
>
> document.writeln("<BR>"+name+space+codename+space+ "<BR>");
> document.writeln("<BR>"+version+space+platform+spa ce+"<BR>");
> document.writeln("<BR>"+MyjavaEnabled+"<BR>"+scree nWidth+space+"<BR>");
> document.writeln("<BR>"+screenHeight+space+"<BR>") ;
> </script>
>
> I can see no way of knowing if it is a firefox or netscape browser is that
> posible?


Probably not but it shouldn't matter unless this is a purely academical
exercise.

> Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What is
> up with that?


It's for people who mistakenly think that anything in the navigator
object means anything and that includes Thomas Lahn. It's useless for
anything but an academic exercise.

For what it's worth, this is what one of my browsers gives for that code:

Netscape, Mozilla,
5.0 , Win32,

What browser is it?
--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq & newsgroup weekly
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/
 
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News
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      02-07-2006
"David Dorward" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:ds8ib5$k0b$1$(E-Mail Removed)...
> News wrote:
>
>> I have a page up trying to learn how to ID a browser and other info.

>
> Except for (not very accurate) statistical gathering purposes, this
> information shouldn't be of any practical use to you. If you are planning
> to branch JavaScript based on what different browsers are capable of, then
> you should look at the much more reliable object detection.
> http://www.quirksmode.org/js/support.html
>
>> I can see no way of knowing if it is a firefox or netscape browser is
>> that
>> posible?

>
> Not reliably. These days there is little to choose between them anyway.
>
>> Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What
>> is
>> up with that?

>
> Netscape had better JavaScript support then IE. People wrote scripts to
> detect this. Microsoft brought out a new version of IE with better
> JavaScript support and stuck Mozilla in the agent string so that those
> scripts wouldn't ignore IE.
>
> --
> David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
> Home is where the ~/.bashrc is


Thanks that URL was helpful


Totus possum, totum Deum.
Totus ero, totum meum.
WSW


 
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Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
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      02-07-2006
David Dorward wrote:

> News wrote:
>> Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What
>> is up with that?

>
> Netscape had better JavaScript support then IE.


That is an interesting (false) statement, considering that IE has no
JavaScript support at all and it never had (IE supports and supported
JScript and VBScript). Maybe you meant to say that Netscape had better
ways for scripting HTML documents, while you would be confusing
programming language and AOM/DOM (unfortunately a mistake Netscape made
too until JavaScript 1.3).


PointedEars
 
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VK
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      02-07-2006

News wrote:
> Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What is
> up with that?


In the beginning Tim Berners-Lee created the Web and HTTP

Then National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NSCA) created the
first GUI browser called NSCA Mosaic. And it was good ans so lasted
many years.

Then Netscape, Inc. created a much more powerful version and called it
"Mozilla". What was a play around the word "Mosaic" => "Mosaic" +
"Godzilla", thus Mosaic but having obtained the power of Godzilla. They
even created a logo with a funny little dragon.

But browser production appreared to be a very profitable no-fun
business so the next version has been already called very seriously
"Netscape Navigator". At the same time "Mozilla" has been left in the
browser ID string (which finally become a property of the navigator
object).

So deeply and truly each GUI browser is Mozilla, *including* IE. In
Help > About it still says: "Based on NCSA Mosaic."

Currently "Mozilla" word in userAgent string became equivalent of the
cross sign at the beginning of mediaeval manuscripts It just shows
that authors of this particular browser remember and respect their
great ancestors.

Besides that "Mozilla" in userAgent doesn't contain any technical info;
it doesn't indicate anyhow to the current relation with Mozilla
Foundation <http://www.mozilla.org>

 
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Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
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      02-07-2006
VK wrote:

> News wrote:
>> Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla.
>> What is up with that?

>
> In the beginning Tim Berners-Lee created the Web and HTTP


And I thought that in the beginning was the word.
And the word was text/plain.[1]

> Then National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NSCA) created the
> first GUI browser called NSCA Mosaic. And it was good ans so lasted
> many years.


So far, so good.

> Then Netscape, Inc. created a much more powerful version and called it
> "Mozilla". What was a play around the word "Mosaic" => "Mosaic" +
> "Godzilla", thus Mosaic but having obtained the power of Godzilla. They
> even created a logo with a funny little dragon.
>
> But browser production appreared to be a very profitable no-fun
> business so the next version has been already called very seriously
> "Netscape Navigator". At the same time "Mozilla" has been left in the
> browser ID string (which finally become a property of the navigator
> object).


Wrong as it is. The (internal) _codename_ of Netscape's Web browser,
Netscape Navigator (and later, the Netscape Communicator suite) was
Mozilla (for the reasons you mentioned) ever since.

<URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Navigator>

Hence the logo, navigator.userAgent and later the name of the (non-profit)
Mozilla Organization (an Open Source community with Netscape support) which
took over development of the Mozilla codebase when Netscape decided (due to
the no longer maintainable codebase produced to far) to make the Mozilla
code Open Source (resulting in releasing NN versions 6.x and 7.x as
Netscape Gecko-based, parallel to Mozilla Suite releases from mozilla.org).

Shortly after the merger with (or rather hostile takeover by) AOL/TW,
the Netscape browser division was shut down, and what was the Mozilla
Organization with many payed Netscape employees became the Mozilla
Foundation <URL:http://www.mozilla.org/> (still non-profit) led by the
hard core of ex-Netscapers. (Current Netscape browser versions [8+]
are developed by Mercurial Communications for AOL/TW and are based on
Mozilla Firefox.)

<URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape>

Recently, with the release of Firefox 1.5, the Mozilla Foundation
produced a (commercial) subsidiary named Mozilla Corporation
(<URL:http://www.mozilla.com/>) to "[oversee] the development and
distribution of Mozilla technologies and products, including the
popular and award-winning Firefox Web browser and Thunderbird email
client."


PointedEars
___________
[1] <URL:http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1.txt>
 
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VK
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      02-07-2006
> VK wrote:
> > Then National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NSCA) created the
> > first GUI browser called NSCA Mosaic. And it was good ans so lasted
> > many years.


> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> So far, so good.


Actually not as good as it should. I did not mention other GUI web
browsers created mainly in different universities, some of which were
rather good for that time. The history did not preserve their names but
they were I may look in old brochures for details. So NSCA Mosaic
was *not* the first GUI browser, but it was the *first milestone* in
web-browsers evolution. Browsing history, bookmark collection, link
underlining (still optional) etc. etc.

The rest can go by your text. I see your variant is more Mozilla
Foundation - centric imitating a "corporate success history" article
style
I don't see a reason to make it bitter though.

 
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Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
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      02-07-2006
VK wrote:

>> VK wrote:
>> > Then National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NSCA) created the
>> > first GUI browser called NSCA Mosaic. And it was good ans so lasted
>> > many years.

>
>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:


Learn to quote. NOW.

>> So far, so good.

>
> [...]
> The rest can go by your text. I see your variant is more Mozilla
> Foundation - centric imitating a "corporate success history" article
> style
> I don't see a reason to make it bitter though.


If you think it was, so be it. I have no problem pointing out that despite
all obstacles the Mozilla project is still going strong -- I welcome that.

However, this section of my article was rather intended to point out the
connection between Netscape, Mozilla and the Mozilla Organization /
Foundation / Corporation which you told it did not exist.


PointedEars
 
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Randy Webb
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      02-07-2006
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn said the following on 2/7/2006 2:24 AM:
> David Dorward wrote:
>
>> News wrote:
>>> Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What
>>> is up with that?

>> Netscape had better JavaScript support then IE.

>
> That is an interesting (false) statement, considering that IE has no
> JavaScript support at all and it never had (IE supports and supported
> JScript and VBScript).


Then how can the statement be false? It reads, with your pedantic
interpretation, as something along the lines of:

Netscape had better JavaScript support than a browser that didn't have
JavaScript support.

And that statement is *true*.

But, just to pedant your pedant, MS used the term JScript as its
"Javascript implementation" because NS had a bitch fit about MS using
its name.

> Maybe you meant to say that Netscape had better
> ways for scripting HTML documents, while you would be confusing
> programming language and AOM/DOM (unfortunately a mistake Netscape made
> too until JavaScript 1.3).


No, He probably meant to say exactly what he said and in your desire to
be pedantically correct you inserted your foot into your mouth.

--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq & newsgroup weekly
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/
 
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