«

On Mar 21, 8:53*pm, Alan Browne <alan.bro...@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
wrote:
> On 2012-03-21 08:47 , Val Hallah wrote:
>
> >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ESOs-Vista-tel...
>
> Nice stuff. *Mind boggling.
>
> However, these galaxies at the edge of the universe are (now, not when
> the light left them) in a part of space traveling away from us faster
> than the speed of light.

I don;t think that is true as nothing travles faster than light.
(well other than the wierd nurtrino result which I put down to an
error)

>*Eventually the last photons will reach us and
> those galaxies won't be seen by humans ever again.

Tghose galaxies and other will all die out eventually, they won;t be
creating any 'light'
(or very little) of their own.

>
> (This will take a while however, so don't make popcorn for viewing...)

and the fizz will be gone from your cola too

>
> --
> "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
> * I said I didn't know."
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-Samuel Clemens.

Whisky-dave <> writes:

> On Mar 21, 8:53*pm, Alan Browne <alan.bro...@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
> wrote:
>> On 2012-03-21 08:47 , Val Hallah wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ESOs-Vista-tel...
>>
>> Nice stuff. *Mind boggling.
>>
>> However, these galaxies at the edge of the universe are (now, not when
>> the light left them) in a part of space traveling away from us faster
>> than the speed of light.
>
> I don;t think that is true as nothing travles faster than light.
> (well other than the wierd nurtrino result which I put down to an
> error)

So did they; they finally tracked it down to a loose cable on a GPS unit
(which was being used as their time base too). Even the initial
announcement was clearly "we have these anomalous results we can't
explain, but we don't believe them, please help us figure out what's
wrong", not "OMG! FTL!".
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

On 3/22/12 PDT 6:47 AM, Whisky-dave wrote:
> On Mar 21, 8:53 pm, Alan Browne<alan.bro...@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
>>
>> However, these galaxies at the edge of the universe are (now, not when
>> the light left them) in a part of space traveling away from us faster
>> than the speed of light.
>
> I don;t think that is true as nothing travles faster than light.
> (well other than the wierd nurtrino result which I put down to an
> error)

Well, nothing we know of so far is faster than light.... But there are a
few things we don't know....

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:47:55 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
<> wrote:

>On Mar 21, 8:53*pm, Alan Browne <alan.bro...@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
>wrote:
>> On 2012-03-21 08:47 , Val Hallah wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ESOs-Vista-tel...
>>
>> Nice stuff. *Mind boggling.
>>
>> However, these galaxies at the edge of the universe are (now, not when
>> the light left them) in a part of space traveling away from us faster
>> than the speed of light.
>
>I don;t think that is true as nothing travles faster than light.
>(well other than the wierd nurtrino result which I put down to an
>error)
>
>>*Eventually the last photons will reach us and
>> those galaxies won't be seen by humans ever again.
>
>Tghose galaxies and other will all die out eventually, they won;t be
>creating any 'light'
>(or very little) of their own.
>
>>
>> (This will take a while however, so don't make popcorn for viewing...)
>
>and the fizz will be gone from your cola too
>
>>
>> --
>> "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
>> * I said I didn't know."
>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-Samuel Clemens.


My understanding is that nothing can travel through space faster than
light, but that space itself can expand faster than lightspeed.

On 23/03/2012 7:58 p.m., charles wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:47:55 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
> <> wrote:
>
>> On Mar 21, 8:53 pm, Alan Browne<alan.bro...@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2012-03-21 08:47 , Val Hallah wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ESOs-Vista-tel...
>>>
>>> Nice stuff. Mind boggling.
>>>
>>> However, these galaxies at the edge of the universe are (now, not when
>>> the light left them) in a part of space traveling away from us faster
>>> than the speed of light.
>>
>> I don;t think that is true as nothing travles faster than light.
>> (well other than the wierd nurtrino result which I put down to an
>> error)
>>
>>> Eventually the last photons will reach us and
>>> those galaxies won't be seen by humans ever again.
>>
>> Tghose galaxies and other will all die out eventually, they won;t be
>> creating any 'light'
>> (or very little) of their own.
>>
>>>
>>> (This will take a while however, so don't make popcorn for viewing...)
>>
>> and the fizz will be gone from your cola too
>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
>>> I said I didn't know."
>>> -Samuel Clemens.
>
>
> My understanding is that nothing can travel through space faster than
> light, but that space itself can expand faster than lightspeed.

So if something is traveling at 51% of the speed of light in one
direction, and we are traveling at 51% the speed of light in the other
direction...

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012, Me wrote:

>> My understanding is that nothing can travel through space faster than
>> light, but that space itself can expand faster than lightspeed.
>
> So if something is traveling at 51% of the speed of light in one direction,
> and we are traveling at 51% the speed of light in the other direction...


This is where special relativity comes into play. From no reference frame
does any object ever appear to be moving faster than light (though from an
observer who perceives himself to be at rest compared to the two
spaceships, he may perceive that the ships added velocities would make
them receed from each other at faster than light speed. But from the
perspective of each ship, this would not be the case.)

It's all pretty confusing stuff. Amazing that a human being just randomly
figured it out one day.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...invel2.html#c2

-Ryan McGinnis
The BIG Storm Picture: http://bigstormpicture.com PGP Key 0x65115E4C
Follow my storm chasing adventures at http://bigstormpicture.blogspot.com
Images@Getty: http://bit.ly/oDW1pT Images@Alamy:<a href="http://bit.ly"...p://bit.ly</a>/aMH6Qd

On 24/03/2012 6:17 a.m., Ryan McGinnis wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2012, Me wrote:
>
>>> My understanding is that nothing can travel through space faster than
>>> light, but that space itself can expand faster than lightspeed.
>>
>> So if something is traveling at 51% of the speed of light in one
>> direction, and we are traveling at 51% the speed of light in the other
>> direction...
>
>
> This is where special relativity comes into play. From no reference
> frame does any object ever appear to be moving faster than light (though
> from an observer who perceives himself to be at rest compared to the two
> spaceships, he may perceive that the ships added velocities would make
> them receed from each other at faster than light speed. But from the
> perspective of each ship, this would not be the case.)
>
Yes, but there would be no "direct" exchange of information possible
between the two objects. One would "disappear" to the other. That's
what the OP was saying about distant stars in an expanding universe, or
accelerating expanding universe. Special relativity isn't needed to
understand that.
If you knew about the other object, and could devise a method to measure
it's position (more than once, thus calculate it's velocity - which
isn't impossible), then special relativity effects come into the picture.

>
> It's all pretty confusing stuff. Amazing that a human being just
> randomly figured it out one day.
>
> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...invel2.html#c2
>
> -Ryan McGinnis
> The BIG Storm Picture: http://bigstormpicture.com PGP Key 0x65115E4C
> Follow my storm chasing adventures at http://bigstormpicture.blogspot.com
> Images@Getty: http://bit.ly/oDW1pT Images@Alamy:<a href="http://bit.ly"...p://bit.ly</a>/aMH6Qd

In article <jkijt1$6a6$>, says...
>
> On 24/03/2012 6:17 a.m., Ryan McGinnis wrote:
> > On Fri, 23 Mar 2012, Me wrote:
> >
> >>> My understanding is that nothing can travel through space faster than
> >>> light, but that space itself can expand faster than lightspeed.
> >>
> >> So if something is traveling at 51% of the speed of light in one
> >> direction, and we are traveling at 51% the speed of light in the other
> >> direction...
> >
> >
> > This is where special relativity comes into play. From no reference
> > frame does any object ever appear to be moving faster than light (though
> > from an observer who perceives himself to be at rest compared to the two
> > spaceships, he may perceive that the ships added velocities would make
> > them receed from each other at faster than light speed. But from the
> > perspective of each ship, this would not be the case.)
> >
> Yes, but there would be no "direct" exchange of information possible
> between the two objects. One would "disappear" to the other. That's
> what the OP was saying about distant stars in an expanding universe, or
> accelerating expanding universe. Special relativity isn't needed to
> understand that.
> If you knew about the other object, and could devise a method to measure
> it's position (more than once, thus calculate it's velocity - which
> isn't impossible), then special relativity effects come into the picture.

The thing is, special relativity is a special case of general relativity
and the models with moving spacetime are from general relativity. There
is no conflict, it's just a case where special relativity doesn't apply
because one of its assumptions is violated.

> > It's all pretty confusing stuff. Amazing that a human being just
> > randomly figured it out one day.
> >
> > http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...invel2.html#c2
> >
> > -Ryan McGinnis
> > The BIG Storm Picture: http://bigstormpicture.com PGP Key 0x65115E4C
> > Follow my storm chasing adventures at http://bigstormpicture.blogspot.com
> > Images@Getty: http://bit.ly/oDW1pT Images@Alamy:<a href="http://bit.ly"...p://bit.ly</a>/aMH6Qd