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On Mar 22, 8:21*am, Bruce <docnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> RichA <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >And yet both Nikon and Canon have fumbled the ball here. *Nikon,
> >because of it's relatively poor offerings with small sensors, Canon
> >without any offering at all
>
> It is on the way, Rich. *I'm guessing that it will be announced in
> September at Photokina.

At least they have a good core to start with, the sensor from the
G1X.

RichA <> wrote:

>On Mar 22, 8:21*am, Bruce <docnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> RichA <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >And yet both Nikon and Canon have fumbled the ball here. *Nikon,
>> >because of it's relatively poor offerings with small sensors, Canon
>> >without any offering at all
>>
>> It is on the way, Rich. *I'm guessing that it will be announced in
>> September at Photokina.
>
>At least they have a good core to start with, the sensor from the
>G1X.


True, but I won't assume that the G1X is the basis of the new system
until I know a lot more than I do now. All I know is, a Canon
mirrorless system is on the way.

With mirrorless cameras now taking more than 50% of the Japanese
market, Canon can no longer do nothing.

RichA <> wrote:
>On Mar 22, 8:23*am, Bruce <docnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> RichA <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >With the Nikon, you'd have to be
>> >hard-pressed to justify using a V1 over a D5100 which costs only
>> >2/3rds as much or a D3100 which costs 1/2 as much as the V1.
>>
>> Nikon 1 System sales are slow. *Deep discounts are available in
>> Europe, and this has also been enhanced with a cashback offer which I
>> think is unprecedented for such a new product.
>
>Especially from them. It's a like the Pentax Q here.


I wish I could state the price we are being asked for Pentax Q kits.

It is *extremely* low.

On Mar 23, 1:30*pm, Bowser <ooo...@mmmmyyy.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:24:25 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet <d...@dd-b.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"David J Taylor" <david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> writes:
>
> >> "Bruce" <docnews2...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:. ..
> >>> ... and gain market share in Europe and the USA.
>
> >>> Figures for the whole of 2011 showed mirrorless cameras gaining 42% of
> >>> the Japanese market for interchangeable-lens cameras with DSLRs taking
> >>> 58%. *Meanwhile, in Europe, mirrorless took 17% (although the UK
> >>> market share was significantly higher) and in N America, only 13%.
>
> >>> Interim figures for the first two months of 2012 show that, in Japan,
> >>> sales of mirrorless cameras have breached the 50% barrier and are
> >>> outselling DSLRs for the first time. *Mirrorless market share has also
> >>> exceeded 30% in the UK and 20% in the USA.
>
> >>> <http://www.43rumors.com/new-pene-5-firmware-update-and-ukjapan-shares...>
> >>> <http://www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/compa...>
>
> >> I remain disappointed that Nikon don't have an offering in this range
> >> which takes their existing lenses without adapters, but perhaps there
> >> wouldn't be a great reduction in size?
>
> >The flange distance, the distance from the back of the lens to the
> >sensor/film, is a key lens mount design feature. *To use F-mount lenses,
> >you need to hold them at the right distance from the sensor. *Either the
> >body has to be that thick itself, or there has to be an adapter in
> >between.
>
> >I'd suggest that the goal should not be "no adapter", but rather "fully
> >functional" -- all auto-focus and auto-exposure features should work.
> >At that point, is the adapter actually a significant problem?
>
> No, but glacial AF would be a big problem. Nobody has successfully
> created a mirrorless camera that can use legacy lenses with fast CDAF.

Static-subject focusing is very fast on the better ones, it's the
follow-focusing that's not up to DSLR speed and by that I mean
Nikon's, D300s or better using the best lenses like the 70-200mm
f2.8. The lower-end DSLR's are a horror to focus with because of the
hunting with cheap lenses.

Bowser <> wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:19:24 +0000, Bruce <>
>wrote:
>>Canon is likely to wait until later in the year before announcing its
>>mirrorless system, possibly at Photokina in September. With the
>>benefit of several years watching the mirrorless market develop, it is
>>probably going to be a very polished product and it is likely to hit
>>all the other manufacturers very hard indeed. I predict that Nikon
>>will be hit harder than most.
>
>
>I hope Cano doesn't make the same huge mistake Nikon did with the 1
>series cams and cripple it so it won't canibalize their SLR sales. The
>1 system could have been a contender...


I doubt very much that Canon would be so stupid. I fully understand
what Nikon was trying to do, but it failed, with mirrorless CSCs now
outselling DSLRs in Japan and making significant gains in market share
elsewhere. So even if Nikon's mirrorless CSCs haven't damaged sales
of Nikon's entry-level DSLRs, other companies' CSCs have.

Nikon must be hoping that upgrades of its D3100 and D5100 will provide
a sales uplift. I doubt that will be enough in Japan and Europe. The
North American market is different, however, and I don't profess to
understand why mirrorless CSCs have a much lower market share there.

Perhaps the Olympus OM-D E-M5 will be the mirrorless CSC that makes
the difference. I understand that pre-orders for the E-M5 in the USA
have been extremely strong.

Bowser <> writes:

> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:24:25 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet <dd->
> wrote:
>
>>"David J Taylor" <david-> writes:
>>
>>> "Bruce" <> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>>> ... and gain market share in Europe and the USA.
>>>>
>>>> Figures for the whole of 2011 showed mirrorless cameras gaining 42% of
>>>> the Japanese market for interchangeable-lens cameras with DSLRs taking
>>>> 58%. Meanwhile, in Europe, mirrorless took 17% (although the UK
>>>> market share was significantly higher) and in N America, only 13%.
>>>>
>>>> Interim figures for the first two months of 2012 show that, in Japan,
>>>> sales of mirrorless cameras have breached the 50% barrier and are
>>>> outselling DSLRs for the first time. Mirrorless market share has also
>>>> exceeded 30% in the UK and 20% in the USA.
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.43rumors.com/new-pene-5-firmware-update-and-ukjapan-shares-unveiled/>
>>>> <http://www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/compact-system-cameras-have-30-share-in-uk-1064770>
>>>
>>> I remain disappointed that Nikon don't have an offering in this range
>>> which takes their existing lenses without adapters, but perhaps there
>>> wouldn't be a great reduction in size?
>>
>>The flange distance, the distance from the back of the lens to the
>>sensor/film, is a key lens mount design feature. To use F-mount lenses,
>>you need to hold them at the right distance from the sensor. Either the
>>body has to be that thick itself, or there has to be an adapter in
>>between.
>>
>>I'd suggest that the goal should not be "no adapter", but rather "fully
>>functional" -- all auto-focus and auto-exposure features should work.
>>At that point, is the adapter actually a significant problem?
>
> No, but glacial AF would be a big problem. Nobody has successfully
> created a mirrorless camera that can use legacy lenses with fast CDAF.

The Nikon 1 is allegedly very fast, according to people who have them.

> I know then can jury-rig some sort of PDAF system, but why? The m4/3
> cams have very fast CDAF.

I suppose you can say they do, but onlyh in the sense that it's fast
"contrast-detection autofocus". The focus on my EPL-2 is *glacial*
compared to focus on my D700. (And some are allegedly considerably
faster than my EPL-2; however, as I read reports, they're competitive
with entry-level DSLRs, NOT competitive with prosumer or full-bore pro
equipment.

> There is no need to micro-adjust since the AF comes right off the
> sensor, and the AF system can be made very flexible.

Yes, that's very handy. I now make sure to do all lens-testing focus
that way for example.

> Designing a mirrorless system that's crippled because they want to use
> a legacy lens line doesn't make sense.

Hard to say; a lot of the value of the Nikon system is the legacy lens
line.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-; http://dd-b.net/
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