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ccc31807 <> writes:

> On Feb 8, 7:16Â*pm, John Bokma <j...@castleamber.com> wrote:
>> Kind request to the regulars here: If you see a question that has
>> nothing to do with Perl, or in any other way breaks the posting
>> guidelines:
>
> Either provide the answer if such can be done expeditiously, or point
> the poster to the correct resource. DO NOT (!!!) insult, flame, or
> criticize the poster as he may not know better (except for those
> posters who abuse the privilege of posting here.)

My point exactly.

>> Somehow those posts attract 5+ regulars all stating nearly the same
>> message, and causing IMO noise that could've been prevented.
>
> First, if you consider this noise, you obviously don't read many
> groups.

I do. Moreover, I've been on Usenet for 16+ years.

> c.l.p.m. is remarkable for its quietness and lack of noise.

Quietness, yes. Lack of noise, certainly not.

> Second, we all learn something sometimes from reading the replies to
> such posts.

See above, I am talking about posts that are considered off-topic or in
any other way a "violation" of the posting guide lines. Such posts are
often met with a knee jerk reply by 5+ regulars; i.e. they insult, flame,
or critisize a poster who may not know better.

> If you consider that you have nothing left to learn, you
> are truly ignorant.

If that was the case I wouldn't be around here, nor would I've written
my request.

> I'm not being personally critical of you, or trying to insult you in
> any way, just making a (very short) case for patience, forbearance,
> tolerance, humility, and helpfulness.

That's exactly what I tried to do here as well:

If ask for patience & forbearance; if you (in general) see a posting
that's clearly off-topic or violates the posting guidelines: take a deep
breath, and move on to the next post. Because there is always someone
who can't resist, and will point out what an idiot (since that's in my
opinion most of the time the nuance of the reply) the OP is.

But yeah, like I wrote earlier, just after I had posted it I already had
the feeling that my post was futile. Time will tell, and I hope my
feeling is wrong.

--
John Bokma j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development

> >> Somehow those posts attract 5+ regulars all stating nearly the same
> >> message, and causing IMO noise that could've been prevented.
this reminds me of a story:
There was this guy that went into a grocery store and he askes for a
mixer. The guy there says "That building acrost the street has them,
you can look there." So the guy walks out of the store. But before he
gets to the door, two guys, with oversize pants hanging off their butt
and ball caps on backwards, walk up on each side of him and ask "What
are you doing here? Don't you know this is a grocery store? You know
that this is a grocery store, why are you bothering us about a pan?
Pans aren't groceries. DUH."

I am sure you wouldn't do this in a grocery store, you shouldn't do it
here either.

I would like to thank RedGrittyBrick again for directing me to the
correct forum. Also I would like an appoligy from Tad McClellan for
asserting that I was rude by asking a question in ignorance, and
replying to his question.

I am writing this in an effort to keep this group healthy so it don't
go down in flames like many others. I haven't participated in
newsgroups for about 10 years. I am using a Perl scrpt and will edit
it in the future, and it would be nice to have someplace I could go
for help.

On Feb 9, 3:33*pm, Myron <delcofiftyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am writing this in an effort to keep this group healthy so it don't
> go down in flames like many others. *I haven't participated in
> newsgroups for about 10 years. *I am using a Perl scrpt and will edit
> it in the future, and it would be nice to have someplace I could go
> for help.

Develop a thick skin and pay no attention to the insulting jerks (of
which I have been one and probably will be one again.)

Sometimes, the insults have a point, and wittingly or not you deserve
to be the target of the insults. I have been such a target and
probably will be again.

Remember the old saw that ninety percent of all communication is non-
verbal, and that all we get here is the ten percent that is verbal, so
make allowance for the ninety percent that can't be conveyed with mere
words.

CC.

ccc31807 <> writes:

> On Feb 9, 3:33Â*pm, Myron <delcofiftyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am writing this in an effort to keep this group healthy so it don't
>> go down in flames like many others. Â*I haven't participated in
>> newsgroups for about 10 years. Â*I am using a Perl scrpt and will edit
>> it in the future, and it would be nice to have someplace I could go
>> for help.
>
> Develop a thick skin and pay no attention to the insulting jerks (of
> which I have been one and probably will be one again.)

I for sure have been one, but I try to avoid being one.

> Sometimes, the insults have a point, and wittingly or not you deserve
> to be the target of the insults. I have been such a target and
> probably will be again.

It's a sad world where it's ok to be a target of insults.

Anyway, to the OP: you may try your luck next time at sites like
stackoverflow. So far I haven't seen what some call Usenet attitude. And
let's hope, when this group dries up (in give or take a year or so),
this attitude will not move to those sites.

--
John Bokma j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development

Tad McClellan <> writes:

> John Bokma <> wrote:
>
>> It's a sad world where it's ok to be a target of insults.

My reply was directed at what ccc31807 wrote.

> I cannot find a single insult in this thread that was directed at the OP.

Yeah, maybe /that/'s where the problem resides.

> Could you please point one out?

Funny you should ask. You consider hiding a URL behind tinyurl.com not
an insult? I also notice that you've been selectively quoting yourself
in your reply to the OP leaving that part out...

Since you wrote earlier:

> I will not be honoring your request.
>
> Best to filter out my posts.

I have more the feeling that you're trolling than anything else.

--
John Bokma j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development

Tad McClellan <> writes:

[ tinyurl ]
> I left that part out because you asked me to.
>
> _That_ request seemed a reasonable one to me.

Clear Tad, and thank you very much.

You probably also understand that kill filing regulars is not an option
So I was somewhat hoping that my request, to not post immediately a
reply when a question is clearly a violation of the posting guidelines,
would also make sense.

To be honest, I try to avoid answering the simple questions as much as
possible so that I a) have more time to read the answers to harder
questions and b) if possible contribute to those. It's not that simple
questions are below me, I mean I love to answer them, but I don't
consider it productive if 7 people all post nearly the same answer over
an hour.

Anyway, thanks for reading my replies, who knows

--
John Bokma j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development

On 09/02/2010 16:41, John Bokma wrote:
>
> *But* 5+ regulars posting all the same knee jerking message is also
> annoying.

John, I do think you're over-reacting in this instance. I only count
four responses to the OP, maybe the fifth didn't reach my news server.
I'm sure you are aware of the propagation delays that can cause several
people to respond before other responses become visible to them.

I was one of those four responders - I directed Myron to an appropriate
newsgroup, he followed up there and was provided with some help there.
Even though the subject was off-topic here I also provided some specific
suggestions that I thought might help in future.

Now you seem to be labelling me as a knee jerking reprobate!

Your own knees look a little twitchy to me

Ben Morrow <> writes:

> Quoth John Bokma <>:
>>
>> Funny you should ask. You consider hiding a URL behind tinyurl.com not
>> an insult?
>
> Um, what? URL-shortening services are very useful on Usenet, given the
> limited line length and the fact that line-broken URLs can't be
> identified by some clients (or most if they've been quoted). In what way
> is this insulting?

Maybe you should reread the thread?

Anyway, it doesn't matter, Tad agrees with me (for which my thanks).

--
John Bokma j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development

RedGrittyBrick <> writes:

> On 09/02/2010 16:41, John Bokma wrote:
>>
>> *But* 5+ regulars posting all the same knee jerking message is also
>> annoying.
>
> John, I do think you're over-reacting in this instance. I only count
> four responses to the OP, maybe the fifth didn't reach my news
> server. I'm sure you are aware of the propagation delays that can
> cause several people to respond before other responses become visible
> to them.

Hence my request to take a breath if you see an easy target. As for the
wording of those replies, IMO they can be a bit more friendly. Or maybe
that's just me.

Anyway, thanks for (still) reading me. Like I wrote earlier (and several
times in the past), this is one of the groups I consider hostile
compared to other groups I am subscribed to. And it's not because this
is a "techie" group, since I am subscribed to several of them. I've
subscribed to this group many times, and after some time I
unscribed. One of the major reasons was the hostile behavior (to which I
certainly have contributed in the past, hopefully way less now). Maybe
hostile, knee jerk, etc. are too strong words, but English is my second
language, and maybe that's showing here.

I understand that nobody is paid here for running a help desk (heh,
didn't that discussion run here ages ago ), and that people who come
here should at least be somewhat prepared. But I've made my newbie posts
as well, back in the day, and can't recall unfriendly replies back in
those days, maybe I forgot.

Maybe this thread didn't justify my reaction, but I am sure there are
threads here that do.

Thanks,

--
John Bokma j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development

Myron wrote:
>>>> Somehow those posts attract 5+ regulars all stating nearly the same
>>>> message, and causing IMO noise that could've been prevented.
> this reminds me of a story:
> There was this guy that went into a grocery store and he askes for a
> mixer. The guy there says "That building acrost the street has them,
> you can look there." So the guy walks out of the store. But before he
> gets to the door, two guys, with oversize pants hanging off their butt
> and ball caps on backwards, walk up on each side of him and ask "What
> are you doing here? Don't you know this is a grocery store? You know
> that this is a grocery store, why are you bothering us about a pan?
> Pans aren't groceries. DUH."
>
> I am sure you wouldn't do this in a grocery store, you shouldn't do it
> here either.
>
> I would like to thank RedGrittyBrick again for directing me to the
> correct forum. Also I would like an appoligy from Tad McClellan for
> asserting that I was rude by asking a question in ignorance, and
> replying to his question.
>
> I am writing this in an effort to keep this group healthy so it don't
> go down in flames like many others. I haven't participated in
> newsgroups for about 10 years. I am using a Perl scrpt and will edit
> it in the future, and it would be nice to have someplace I could go
> for help.


Story I was thinking of was the cop who sees a drunk on his hands and
knees under the streetlight.

"What are you doing?"
"I lost my car keys over there."
"Well, why are you looking here?"
"The light's better"