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CLPM - a help group?

 
 
sln@netherlands.com
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      08-02-2008
Whats the charter of this newsgroup?
Is it strictly Q&A?

All questions. Post code without a question reveals nothing.
I wouldn't call this an educational/professional group in that case.

Am I posting to the wrong group? Just what is this group for?

Not for programmers it seems.

Perhaps it should be renamed to

comp.lang.perl.questions.misc.beginner.programmer. edu

Because it makes sence.

Whats the answer, this is a question?

sln

 
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brian d foy
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-02-2008
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Whats the charter of this newsgroup?
> Is it strictly Q&A?


I've never seen an official charter for this group, but it certainly
isn't a help desk. It's for general discussion of Perl. That might be
questions, answers, essays, or whatever else people decide to post.

People post the thoughtful stuff in blogs now, so you don't see much of
that in usenet anymore.

> Am I posting to the wrong group? Just what is this group for?


It depends on what you are trying to acheive. If you're looking to
learn perl, you probably want to move over to learn.perl.org and look
at its discussion lists.

If you want detailed discussions of the gory details of Perl, you might
try PerlMonks.

If you are interested in topical discussion of narrow topics, look at
the Perl mailing lists to see if one meets your needs:
http://lists.cpan.org/

If you're looking for something else, tell us what it is and somebody
might be able to point you in the right direction.

clpm is what it is, despite what anyone tries to make it. If that works
for you, great. If it doesn't, there's not much chance of making it
into something else.

Good luck
 
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Adam Worrall
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      08-04-2008
brian d foy wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>
> > Whats the charter of this newsgroup?
> > Is it strictly Q&A?


According to the original charter, one may discuss anything Perl:

<ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/control/comp/comp.lang.perl.gz>
From http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) Thu May 23 13:40:31 1991
Path: rpi!think.com!compass!news
From: (E-Mail Removed) (news)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.ctl
Subject: newgroup comp.lang.perl
Message-ID: <(E-Mail Removed)>
Date: 23 May 91 16:14:05 GMT
Control: newgroup comp.lang.perl
Distribution: world
Organization: Compass, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Lines: 1
Approved: (E-Mail Removed)

Discussion of Larry Wall's Perl system.

And the .misc charter:

<ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/control/comp/comp.lang.perl.misc.gz>
From (E-Mail Removed) Mon May 8 16:46:29 1995
Path: uunet!tale
From: (E-Mail Removed) (David C Lawrence)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc
Subject: newgroup comp.lang.perl.misc
Control: newgroup comp.lang.perl.misc
Approved: (E-Mail Removed)
Message-ID: <(E-Mail Removed)>
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 20:43:32 GMT
Lines: 12
Xref: uunet control:1996186

comp.lang.perl.misc is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its
vote for creation by 328:48 as reported in news.announce.newgroups
on 1 May 1995.This group supersedes comp.lang.perl, which will be
removed on 8 Aug 1995.

For your newsgroups file:
comp.lang.perl.misc The Perl language in general.

The charter, culled from the call for votes:

Existing traffic in comp.lang.perl will migrate to
comp.lang.perl.misc, which will remain an unmoderated newsgroup for
discussion of issues of all sorts relating to perl.


> I've never seen an official charter for this group, but it certainly
> isn't a help desk. It's for general discussion of Perl. That might be
> questions, answers, essays, or whatever else people decide to post.


Please explain, who actually decides that it isn't a help? I never saw
Larry Wall state that in this group. It's not in the charter, which
actually says the opposite:

Existing traffic in comp.lang.perl will migrate to
comp.lang.perl.misc, which will remain an unmoderated newsgroup for
discussion of issues of all sorts relating to perl.

"discussion of issues of all sorts relating to perl", and help questions
fall into this category.

> People post the thoughtful stuff in blogs now, so you don't see much of
> that in usenet anymore.


Sigh... ain't that the truth.

> > Am I posting to the wrong group? Just what is this group for?


It's for "discussion of issues of all sorts relating to perl."

> It depends on what you are trying to acheive.


No, the only requirement to post here is if it's a Perl related question.

> If you're looking to learn perl, you probably want to move
> over to learn.perl.org and look at its discussion lists.
>
> If you want detailed discussions of the gory details of Perl, you might
> try PerlMonks.


I would say use the lists or nntp.perl.org, this news group, and the
'Monks list.

> clpm is what it is, despite what anyone tries to make it.


What I dislike it the arm-chair legislation that some people love to
impose; this notion that "this is not a help desk", for instance, is
bunk. It's not a _personal_ help desk, but in a sense, it is a public
volunteer based help desk, as people come and ask questions and often
someone answers them. I don't know how else you can describe a "help desk."

> If it doesn't, there's not much chance of making it into something else.


I think the ruling populous did that a long time ago.

- Adam
 
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sln@netherlands.com
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-04-2008
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:09:47 -0500, brian d foy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Whats the charter of this newsgroup?
>> Is it strictly Q&A?

>
>I've never seen an official charter for this group, but it certainly
>isn't a help desk. It's for general discussion of Perl. That might be
>questions, answers, essays, or whatever else people decide to post.
>
>People post the thoughtful stuff in blogs now, so you don't see much of
>that in usenet anymore.
>
>> Am I posting to the wrong group? Just what is this group for?

>
>It depends on what you are trying to acheive. If you're looking to
>learn perl, you probably want to move over to learn.perl.org and look
>at its discussion lists.
>
>If you want detailed discussions of the gory details of Perl, you might
>try PerlMonks.
>
>If you are interested in topical discussion of narrow topics, look at
>the Perl mailing lists to see if one meets your needs:
>http://lists.cpan.org/
>
>If you're looking for something else, tell us what it is and somebody
>might be able to point you in the right direction.
>
>clpm is what it is, despite what anyone tries to make it. If that works
>for you, great. If it doesn't, there's not much chance of making it
>into something else.
>
>Good luck


Thank You!

This seems like the perfect place for me.
I will use this group as a repository to dump large scale code into.

How far back are the posts saved?

sln

 
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Tad J McClellan
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      08-05-2008
(E-Mail Removed) <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


> How far back are the posts saved?



Saved where, exactly?

There is no "central" server on Usenet.

Each Usenet servers retains articles for as long as their
individual news administrators have configured them to be kept.

You need to direct that question at whomever you are getting
your news feed from, as they are the only ones who know the answer.


See also:

"How the Usenet News Protocols Work"

http://people.dsv.su.se/~jpalme/e-ma...enet-news.html


--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
 
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cartercc
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-05-2008
On Aug 2, 7:09 pm, brian d foy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> People post the thoughtful stuff in blogs now, so you don't see much of
> that in usenet anymore.


I've had the bad experience several times now of seeing news groups
trashed and driving people away. It seems like a good idea to have a
general discussion area for topics, but there seems to be a Gresham's
law for usenet -- over time the bad posters kill the group.

The reason I don't like blogs is because I haven't found a way to do a
centralized search. You can find a blog anywhere, or not. At least
with the usenet heirarchy you can pretty quickly narrow down your
interest group.

Maybe the success of usenet is killing it. With a small group of
people mostly knowledgable and mostly interested you find people like
Larry Wall, or Randel Schwartz, or brian d foy participating. With
greater numbers of people futzing the signal to noise ratio, it gets a
lot harder.

> clpm is what it is, despite what anyone tries to make it. If that works
> for you, great. If it doesn't, there's not much chance of making it
> into something else.


I have found c.l.p.m. a helpful resource, and I try to give something
back occasionally as payment for what I have received. There is
certainly a place for groups like this, and I'm wishing for a long and
successful run. Even if I have my doubts.

CC
 
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brian d foy
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      08-05-2008
In article <%9Hlk.17313$(E-Mail Removed)>, Adam Worrall
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


> > I've never seen an official charter for this group, but it certainly
> > isn't a help desk. It's for general discussion of Perl. That might be
> > questions, answers, essays, or whatever else people decide to post.

>
> Please explain, who actually decides that it isn't a help?


I think you mean "isn't a help desk". A help desk is a formally
established service where customers walk up and someone helps them.

No one here is obligated to do anything, and there aren't office hours,
shifts, or responsilibities. That people do answer questions here
doesn't mean it's purpose is to answer questions.

Help desks aren't lunch rooms, football fields, or street corners. This
newsgroup, however, can be whatever it decides to be, and even that can
change.
 
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Justin C
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      08-05-2008
On 2008-08-04, (E-Mail Removed) <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> This seems like the perfect place for me.
> I will use this group as a repository to dump large scale code into.
>
> How far back are the posts saved?


I think your first step would be to go and find out what usenet is, it
doesn't seem that you are quite sure. Until you know, I don't know how
you can be sure that this newsgroup is the place to 'dump large scale
code'.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.
 
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John Bokma
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-05-2008
bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:

> cartercc wrote:
>> On Aug 2, 7:09 pm, brian d foy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> People post the thoughtful stuff in blogs now, so you don't see much
>>> of that in usenet anymore.

>>
>> I've had the bad experience several times now of seeing news groups
>> trashed and driving people away. It seems like a good idea to have a
>> general discussion area for topics, but there seems to be a Gresham's
>> law for usenet -- over time the bad posters kill the group.
>>
>> The reason I don't like blogs is because I haven't found a way to do
>> a centralized search. You can find a blog anywhere, or not.

>
> Indeed; and if there are (e.g.) 5 wise people
> you need to search 5 blogs.


Or let Google do the work, e.g. 2 sites:

<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...m%20OR%20site%
3Ajohnbokma.com%20zelazny>

If you use Firefox, make a keymark [1], and you can do something like

keyword query

with keyword the keyword associated with the bookmark, and query the
query to search for over all 5 sites.


[1] See: http://johnbokma.com/firefox/keymarks-explained.html

--
John

http://johnbokma.com/perl/
 
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Michael Carman
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      08-05-2008
Adam Worrall wrote:
> Yes I meant 'help desk', but you are wrong in assuming that a 'help
> desk' always has to be a formal service for customers. There are, in
> fact, many volunteer-run help desk, and this newsgroup, like many
> others, functions as exactly that. People volunteer their time to _help_
> others.


I believe that the aversion to calling c.l.p.misc a "help desk" is
because that term carries a connotation that the purpose of the group is
to provide a service where someone will solve your problem for you. The
regular contributors to this group are, on the whole, very resistant to
that idea. "RTFM. What have you tried? Show us your code."

nobull phrased it very well:

"Get real! This is a discussion group, not a helpdesk. You post
something, we discuss its implications. If the discussion happens
to answer a question you've asked, that's incidental."

The purpose of the group is to discuss Perl: it's strengths, weaknesses,
idioms, quirks, dusty corners, etc. The asking and answering of
questions are merely a mechanism by which discussion topics are identified.

-mjc
 
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