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I'm getting ready to set up a new web site, and of course I'd like to
avoid doing a lot of work that's already been done before. I'm
looking at the list of frameworks that are out there, but there are so
many. Perhaps someone here can recommend something for my needs.

Here's what I need:

- Basic authentication stuff: The site will require users to login and
out. There should be your basic authentication stuff: a login form, a
logout page, and an "I forgot my password" page.

- Minimal magic: Let me code my way. A lot of frameworks seem to be
built on the idea that I should code the way the framework designers
code. I don't want to be forced into someone else's idea of The Right
Way. I also don't need or want a lot of features beyond the
authentication stuff. I actually find that the more a framework talks
about how easy it will make my life, the more difficult it makes my
life.

- Easy install: The site I'm creating will eventually be released open
source. I'd like to avoid telling potential users of my site that
first they have to install some huge framework. Really, I'd love it
if the framework just consisted of just one or two modules that can be
copied into one of the @INC directories and that's the whole install.

Any suggestions?

In < .com>,
mentions:
>I'm getting ready to set up a new web site, and of course I'd like to
>avoid doing a lot of work that's already been done before. I'm
>looking at the list of frameworks that are out there, but there are so
>many. Perhaps someone here can recommend something for my needs.

I know what you mean about there being so many I've looked at them
in the past as well.

>- Basic authentication stuff: The site will require users to login and
>out. There should be your basic authentication stuff: a login form, a
>logout page, and an "I forgot my password" page.
>
>- Minimal magic: Let me code my way. A lot of frameworks seem to be
>built on the idea that I should code the way the framework designers
>code. I don't want to be forced into someone else's idea of The Right

If it weren't for the user authentication issue, I'd probably just
recommend writing your own MVC, seriously. It's not hard and you'll end
up with exactly what you need and nothing else. I've written a few of them
and thus far have never regretted that approach.

If you can work out the authentication, I did a "controversial" blurb about
MVC's here: http://weird.podro.com/gouf/art/mode...lers_take_two/
(sorry for the crummy site, some day I'll get around to cleaning it up)

Basically, I feel the MVC is such a critical part of any application that
you probably should write it yourself (or at least, go in and literally
/chop out/ portions of someone elses that you don't need)

I'm not pushing for it, but, you're certainly welcome to yank the packages
from that site, customize/strip them and call it your own.
(thus eliminating the need for your users to install anything)

If you do that, you probably *should* strip out the junk you're not using in
the very beginning, it's always easier to add code than it is to remove it,
chopping it in the very beginning can help. I used Config::General, you
may not like that. I've ripped the CGI::Session bit out in the past for
other projects.

Big frameworks carry big bloat, 80% of which you'll probably never use, 20% of
it could be done better if it were tailored for /your/ application. (Just
look at Java.. 60 billion frameworks, yet it's impossible to design a decent
termcap interface that handles SIGWINCH.)

Small frameworks are good, but probably won't operate in a manner that
fits in with your design plans.

I'm not talking a cut-n-paste operation, doing that (without knowing what
it does) is silly and dangerous. I like code re-use as well (Heck, I love
the Config::General module!)

MVC is more of an idea than a framework.

This really isn't intended as flame-bait, I completely respect anyone
who disagrees on this. (I suspect most people will)

Just my $0.02 I suppose if it had to use components from other programs I might
be a little less down on them, I don't hate them or anything, I just think
we've gone a little overboard with them.

Jamie
--
http://www.geniegate.com Custom web programming
Perl * Java * UNIX User Management Solutions

wrote:
> Here's what I need:
> - Basic authentication stuff: The site will require users to login and
> out. There should be your basic authentication stuff: a login form, a
> logout page, and an "I forgot my password" page.
>
> - Minimal magic: Let me code my way. A lot of frameworks seem to be
> built on the idea that I should code the way the framework designers
> code. I don't want to be forced into someone else's idea of The Right
> Way. I also don't need or want a lot of features beyond the
> authentication stuff. I actually find that the more a framework talks
> about how easy it will make my life, the more difficult it makes my
> life.
>
> - Easy install: The site I'm creating will eventually be released open
> source. I'd like to avoid telling potential users of my site that
> first they have to install some huge framework. Really, I'd love it
> if the framework just consisted of just one or two modules that can be
> copied into one of the @INC directories and that's the whole install.
>
> Any suggestions?

This has 5 characters and is spelled M.A.S.O.N, which is
not exactly a "web framework" but possibly a high level
tool for creating one. It installs without any problems
on any platform I came about.

If you have your content available and structured somehow,
you can hack together the web application w/MASON in almost
no time. It integrates perfectly into Apache infrastructure,
you can have it handle parts of your site or all of it.

There are 'inside out' [C]ontrollers which you can place
somewhere in the file system (autohandler and dhandler),
there are two good books available an even I managed
to set up a Web application while learning Perl in the
time (almost 1 1/2 year ago ...

Its has much of the Perl spirit, in my opinion.

That leaves the authentication question, which
you may completely separate from the app, by
moving it into some Apache2-Auth/DB handler.

Of course you may hack it in a short time into the
Mason appp by opening the Auth-DB first in an
<ONCE> ... </ONCE> statement and sending sha1-strings
back and forth (Browser) via cookies. Whatever

Regards

Mirco