«

Tad McClellan schrieb:
> Ric <> wrote:
>> KDOSS_PERL schrieb:
>>> Greetings to PERL Programmers:
>>>
>>> I've been an Unix System Administrator writing crude shell scripts for
>>> the past 15 years. I never got into writing sophisticated scripting
>>> with multiple looks for my jobs. I would like to use Perl scripts and
>>> was wondering if there are any recommendations for a guy with my kind
>>> of back ground. Any input from your guys would be most appreciated.
>> You probably want to use some beginners book, Perl in 21 days or
>> Learning Perl O'Reilly
>
>
> One of those books is horrid, one of them is good...
>
>
>> Perl is fairly easy and usually you don't program sophisticated large
> ^^^
>> scale applications with perl,
>
>
> Of course he doesn't, because he doesn't even know _any_ Perl yet!
>
> If your "you" was the general "you", then that's a lot of hooey.

Sure perl programmers tend to think that they know about software
engineering

>
> I've written several Perl projects that were sophisticated large
> scale applications (5-10k lines of code each).


5-10k lines, you call that a large scale app?

Dude I don't know where you work at, but large scale apps start at
around 100k lines of code. I have written several apps in C++ that have
about 50k loc and I wouldn't consider them as large scale apps.




>
>

Ric wrote:
>
> 5-10k lines, you call that a large scale app?
>
> Dude I don't know where you work at, but large scale apps start at
> around 100k lines of code. I have written several apps in C++ that have
> about 50k loc and I wouldn't consider them as large scale apps.
>
People still measure application size in terms of lines of code?

Mark

l v schrieb:
> Ric wrote:
>> Tad McClellan schrieb:
>>> Ric <> wrote:
>>>> KDOSS_PERL schrieb:
>>>>> Greetings to PERL Programmers:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been an Unix System Administrator writing crude shell scripts for
>>>>> the past 15 years. I never got into writing sophisticated scripting
>>>>> with multiple looks for my jobs. I would like to use Perl scripts and
>>>>> was wondering if there are any recommendations for a guy with my kind
>>>>> of back ground. Any input from your guys would be most appreciated.
>>>> You probably want to use some beginners book, Perl in 21 days or
>>>> Learning Perl O'Reilly
>>>
>>> One of those books is horrid, one of them is good...
>>>
>>>
>>>> Perl is fairly easy and usually you don't program sophisticated large
>>> ^^^
>>>> scale applications with perl,
>>>
>>> Of course he doesn't, because he doesn't even know _any_ Perl yet!
>>>
>>> If your "you" was the general "you", then that's a lot of hooey.
>>
>> Sure perl programmers tend to think that they know about software
>> engineering
>>
>>> I've written several Perl projects that were sophisticated large
>>> scale applications (5-10k lines of code each).
>>
>>
>> 5-10k lines, you call that a large scale app?
>>
>> Dude I don't know where you work at, but large scale apps start at
>> around 100k lines of code. I have written several apps in C++ that have
>> about 50k loc and I wouldn't consider them as large scale apps.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>
> Oh, lets not start that war! I once had 2 COBOL programs that were 60K
> lines *each* just to price invoices. Perhaps what is done in 50k of C++
> can be done in 10k of Perl code?????
>
Perhaps some things are done in C++ you can't do at all in Perl, so
don't even try.

Ric <> wrote:

> Perhaps some things are done in C++ you can't do at all in Perl, so
> don't even try.

Ah, the ****ing contest! Remember Ric, you are not the language.

Not understanding that a language like Perl has a place makes your
software engineering skills doubtful, to say the least.

--
John Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

Perl help, tutorials, and examples: http://johnbokma.com/perl/

Ric wrote:
> Perhaps some things are done in C++ you can't do at all in Perl,

Hardly. Both languages are Turing complete, therefore there is no difference
between what you can do in each.

> so don't even try.

If Perl makes it more difficult to shoot yourself in the foot then I
actually welcome those limitations.

jue

John Bokma schrieb:
> Ric <> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps some things are done in C++ you can't do at all in Perl, so
>> don't even try.
>
> Ah, the ****ing contest! Remember Ric, you are not the language.
>
> Not understanding that a language like Perl has a place makes your
> software engineering skills doubtful, to say the least.
>

If you comment on someones thread then first read the whole discussion,
you obviously didn't read it.

I started with the note, that perl is not designed to be used for large
scale apps. Some folks didn't agree, that's their problem.

Show me a large scale app like apache, mysql, word etc. that is written
in perl and I will shut up

Jürgen Exner schrieb:
> Ric wrote:
>> Perhaps some things are done in C++ you can't do at all in Perl,
>
> Hardly. Both languages are Turing complete, therefore there is no difference
> between what you can do in each.

If we talk about functional requirements, then you may be right, but
what about non funtional requirements.
For example a high speed 3d engine or a maintainable gui application
like openoffice

If you can do everything in perl, why does everyone design and write
large apps in C++, C# Java

>
>> so don't even try.
>
> If Perl makes it more difficult to shoot yourself in the foot then I
> actually welcome those limitations.

Yeah right!

I do lots of perl programming and I have done lots of writing in C/C++
and C#, buts that's the silliest argument I've heard so far.

>
> jue
>
>

Ric wrote:
> Jürgen Exner schrieb:
>> Ric wrote:
>>> Perhaps some things are done in C++ you can't do at all in Perl,
>>
>> Hardly. Both languages are Turing complete, therefore there is no
>> difference between what you can do in each.
>
> If you can do everything in perl, why does everyone design and write
> large apps in C++, C# Java

I don't know everyone, therefore I don't know if this claim is true.
However many people probably write certain applications in other languages
because they don't know about Perl, because of personal preference, because
of corporate mandates, or even because that other language is better suited
for that application.

Non of this percludes that the application could not be written in Perl if
you would want to.

>> If Perl makes it more difficult to shoot yourself in the foot then I
>> actually welcome those limitations.
>
> Yeah right!
>
> I do lots of perl programming and I have done lots of writing in C/C++
> and C#, buts that's the silliest argument I've heard so far.

If you like convoluted pointer arithmetic, doing garbage collection
manually, and not having any operators on any compound data types, then that
is certainly your choice. I for my part prefer programming languages that
support my way of thinking, not hinder it with technical nonsense.

jue

Mark Clements <> wrote in news:458e7852
$0$27366$:


> People still measure application size in terms of lines of code?
>
> Mark

Sure, what other metric is common to programs that's easily measured?

It's bad, but it's the best they've got. I had probably 1000 LOC in a
recent class project and probably wrote only 100 myself. Everything else
was done by a GUI builder or by the UML tool I used. (It was Java, not
Perl, but I constantly wished it was Perl. Does that count as on topic
here? )

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Ric <> wrote:

> Show me a large scale app like apache, mysql, word etc. that is written
> in perl and I will shut up

Slashdot. But I am sure that you're going to tell "us" that Slashdot is
not an application and more yada yada. Like I already said, ****ing
contest.

--
John Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

Perl help, tutorials, and examples: http://johnbokma.com/perl/