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Computer Language Popularity Trend

 
 
Stefan Scholl
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      09-27-2006
In comp.lang.lisp Jon Ribbens <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>> http://xahlee.org/lang_traf/index.html

>>
>> Careful there with the sweeping generalizations and quick judgments
>> about languages

>
> I just read "PHP as a language is rather dry and business-like",
> and fell off my chair.


Well, business really is that crazy!


--
Web (en): http://www.no-spoon.de/ -*- Web (de): http://www.frell.de/
 
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John Bailo
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      09-27-2006
Xah Lee wrote:
> Computer Language Popularity Trend
>
> This page gives a visual report of computer languages's popularity, as
> indicated by their traffic level in newsgroups.


The only problem being that in the last five years, there are now a
multiplicity of options for discussing any of these languages, in places
that are not Usenet.

For example, Sun hosts a variety of bulletin boards on its java.net
site. Likewise Microsoft has it's "communities".

My guess is that if you included all the new avenues the other languages
would have growth curves about the same shape as for LISP.




--
Texeme Construct
 
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Mladen Adamovic
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      09-27-2006
There is one index at : http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm

It isn't much reliable, put still I think it is a bit reliable.

Also, you might use number of open source projects at Sourceforge for
the given language for giving assumptions, or number of job openings at
Monster, i.e.




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Mladen Adamovic
http://www.online-utility.org
http://www.cheapvps.info
http://www.vpsreview.com


 
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cartercc@gmail.com
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      09-27-2006
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> At the site I'm working on, you'd see a URL like
> http://www.whatever.com/login or http://www.whatever.com/boards?id=131
> -- how would you count them? Such (extensionless) URLs are far more
> common in the Python, Ruby, and Java world in my experience than the
> PHP, Perl, and ASP world, so my first instinct looking at your numbers
> is to believe they're just biased toward languages that more often put
> the extension in the URL.


Yeah. CGI is more than Perl, CGI also includes TCL and Python, and
perhaps some others. In my limited JSP developments, we didn't use file
extensions.

I don't think you can use any measure as an accurate yardstick, but
rather as an impressionistic canvas. Just because there are five times
as many .cgi extensions as .jsp extensions doesn't mean that Perl is
five times more popular that Java. Also, web apps tend to stick around,
and we don't have a sure way to gauge the age of these pages, so it
could be that, in the last year, the ration of JSP to CGI pages is five
to one in favor of JSP.

To some extent, the popularity of technologies is driven by the
available resources. If there are many more Java programmers than Perl
programmers, then Java wil appear to be more popular, and vice versa. I
know that colleges and universities teach Java in their CS and IS
courses, and they don't teach Perl.

CC

 
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Ari Johnson
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      09-27-2006
(E-Mail Removed) writes:

> I don't think you can use any measure as an accurate yardstick, but
> rather as an impressionistic canvas.


Exactly. You can't measure "popularity" without defining the term.
Xah Lee appears to define popularity based on the number of posts made
in a given language's Usenet group (for his choice of which group
belongs to a given language). Given that a substantial portion of the
recent posts in each group is likely an off-topic Xah Lee crosspost,
this metric is probably unreliable even for measuring his own intended
metric: the amount of discussion taking place about each language on
Usenet.

How do you define popularity? Do you define it by how much people
talk about a language on the internet? How many programs are written
in it? How many lines of code are written in it? How many CPU cycles
are used to run code written in it?

None of these is fair, as it is. More people use Ada than talk about
it online, because it is a common language in classified government
work. More people talk about Lisp online than use it, because their
jobs or other circumstances limit their choice to other languages.
Moreover, most people use more than one language, and after a long day
at the office of pumping out Java or Perl, they go home and talk about
Lisp or C#. Online discussion isn't a measure of actual use, even if
you can actually measure the total amount of discussion.

The number of programs written is likely to be grossly inaccurate.
People write millions of small C or Perl utilities all the time, to a
combined effect of less problem-solving than one big Java application.

The number of lines of code written in a language is also unfair,
because it takes more lines of C than of almost any other language to
solve most problems.

The number of CPU cycles spent running code that was written in a
given language is also unfair, because, for instance, Ruby code burns
more CPU cycles to do something than C code does, in the average case.

So, how do you define popularity?
 
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James Stroud
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      09-27-2006
Sherm Pendley wrote:
> "(E-Mail Removed)" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>
>
>>Xah Lee wrote:
>>
>>>Computer Language Popularity Trend
>>>

>>
>>Careful there with the sweeping generalizations and quick judgments

>
>
> Such things are all Xah does. Look at the distribution list for this
> message - of what possible use is cross-posting something like this to
> five different language groups, unless you're trying to start a cross-
> group argument?
>
> In short - Please don't feed the trolls.
>
> sherm--
>


While Xah does have a reputation for trolling, and the crossposting
borders on pathological, you must admit that he presents here a bit of
nice and illuminating research. We probably should encourage him when he
does worthwhile things, and perhaps, in the future, he will put more
time towards them and less time towards the trolling for which he is famous.

James

--
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/
 
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semiopen@hotmail.com
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      09-28-2006

John Bailo wrote:
> Xah Lee wrote:
> > Computer Language Popularity Trend
> >
> > This page gives a visual report of computer languages's popularity, as
> > indicated by their traffic level in newsgroups.

>
> The only problem being that in the last five years, there are now a
> multiplicity of options for discussing any of these languages, in places
> that are not Usenet.
>
> For example, Sun hosts a variety of bulletin boards on its java.net
> site. Likewise Microsoft has it's "communities".
>
> My guess is that if you included all the new avenues the other languages
> would have growth curves about the same shape as for LISP.
>

Good point - especially given the sheer volume of the microsoft groups.
For example, I follow microsoft.public.excel.programming (and thus have
been quite interested in the discussion in fa.haskell recently about
finding a way for VBA to call Haskell functions) regularly and it
almost always has hundreds of posts a day - most of them business-like
discussions of code. Few of the traditional comp groups can boast of
such volume - so any attempt to measure an ill-defined popularity by
focusing on them will be skewed.

-semiopen

 
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Tagore Smith
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      09-28-2006
Stefan Scholl wrote:
> In comp.lang.lisp Jon Ribbens <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> >>> http://xahlee.org/lang_traf/index.html
> >>
> >> Careful there with the sweeping generalizations and quick judgments
> >> about languages

> >
> > I just read "PHP as a language is rather dry and business-like",
> > and fell off my chair.

>
> Well, business really is that crazy!


Of the three people with whom I've worked who have sat on boards in the
Fortune 100, at least two of them have screwy reference semantics .

 
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Arne Vajhøj
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      09-30-2006
Danno wrote:
> Xah Lee wrote:
>> This page gives a visual report of computer languages's popularity, as
>> indicated by their traffic level in newsgroups. This is not a
>> comprehensive or fair survey, but does give some indications of
>> popularity trends.
>>
>> http://xahlee.org/lang_traf/index.html

>
> Wow, java is a low level industrial language?


Compared to Python, Ruby etc. - yes.

Arne
 
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