«

Quoth Dan Jones <>:
> Uri Guttman wrote:
> >
> > strange that you should know better than to give a symref answer without
> > all the usual caveats on how dangerous and wrong it is.
> >
> > $hash{$v1} = 'better than just working!' ;
>
> Care to expound? What is dangerous about the first example? What's with
> the "hash" in the second? As I understand it, there was no hash involved -
> it was the name of a scalar variable stored as a string in another scalar.
> Is hash a keyword or simply a variable name? If this is a FAQ or a perldoc
> question, a pointer to the right location would be appreciated. I don't
> find anything looking there and a Google for $hash doesn't show up anything
> that seems relevant.

Google for the several-threads-a-week on this topic (using a variable as
a variable name, or 'symrefs'), or read perldoc -q variable name. If you
don't know what a hash is, start with perldoc perldata.

Ben

--
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe: attack ships on fire off
the shoulder of Orion; I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the
Tannhauser Gate. All these moments will be lost, in time, like tears in rain.
Time to die.

>>>>> "DJ" == Dan Jones <> writes:

DJ> Uri Guttman wrote:

>> strange that you should know better than to give a symref answer without
>> all the usual caveats on how dangerous and wrong it is.
>>
>> $hash{$v1} = 'better than just working!' ;

DJ> Care to expound? What is dangerous about the first example?
DJ> What's with the "hash" in the second? As I understand it, there
DJ> was no hash involved - it was the name of a scalar variable stored
DJ> as a string in another scalar. Is hash a keyword or simply a
DJ> variable name? If this is a FAQ or a perldoc question, a pointer
DJ> to the right location would be appreciated. I don't find anything
DJ> looking there and a Google for $hash doesn't show up anything that
DJ> seems relevant.

search google for my name and posts about symrefs or symbolic refs. i
have posted many times as to why they are wrong.

uri

--
Uri Guttman ------ -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org

Dan Jones wrote:
> Uri Guttman wrote:
>> strange that you should know better than to give a symref answer
>> without all the usual caveats on how dangerous and wrong it is.
>>
>> $hash{$v1} = 'better than just working!' ;
>
> Care to expound? What is dangerous about the first example?

You must have missed the gazillions of posts about why symbolic references
are bad, bad, BAD.

Why would you want to mess around with the system symbol table (that's what
you are effectively doing with symrefs) instead of using your own hash? Not
to mention the implied limitations like local variables, strictures, etc.

> What's with the "hash" in the second? As I understand it, there was no
> hash
> involved -

Yes, there was. Symbolic references are abusing the internal system symbol
table hash.

> it was the name of a scalar variable stored as a string in
> another scalar. Is hash a keyword or simply a variable name? If this
> is a FAQ or a perldoc question, a pointer to the right location would
> be appreciated. I don't find anything looking there and a Google for
> $hash doesn't show up anything that seems relevant.

perldoc -q "variable name"
http://www.google.com/groups?as_epq=...lang.perl.misc
http://www.google.com/groups?as_epq=...lang.perl.misc

jue

Uri Guttman wrote:

>>>>>> "EJR" == Eric J Roode <> writes:
>
> >> Is it possible?
>
> EJR> Strange that you could figure out how to print the indirect value
> EJR> out, but you couldn't figure out how to assign indirectly.
>
> EJR> ${$v1} = "it worked!";
>
>
> strange that you should know better than to give a symref answer without
> all the usual caveats on how dangerous and wrong it is.
>
> $hash{$v1} = 'better than just working!' ;

Care to expound? What is dangerous about the first example? What's with
the "hash" in the second? As I understand it, there was no hash involved -
it was the name of a scalar variable stored as a string in another scalar.
Is hash a keyword or simply a variable name? If this is a FAQ or a perldoc
question, a pointer to the right location would be appreciated. I don't
find anything looking there and a Google for $hash doesn't show up anything
that seems relevant.

Uri Guttman <> wrote in
news:

>>>>>> "EJR" == Eric J Roode <> writes:
>
> >> Is it possible?
>
> EJR> Strange that you could figure out how to print the indirect value
> EJR> out, but you couldn't figure out how to assign indirectly.
>
> EJR> ${$v1} = "it worked!";
>
>
> strange that you should know better than to give a symref answer without
> all the usual caveats on how dangerous and wrong it is.
>
> $hash{$v1} = 'better than just working!' ;

Aw, Uri, you're not letting me have any fun!

Actually, I didn't feel it necessary, since others had already given good
reasons not to do so (and to read the FAQ).

--
Eric
`$=`;$_=\%!;($_)=/(.)/;$==++$|;($.,$/,$,,$\,$",$;,$^,$#,$~,$*,$:,@%)=(
$!=~/(.)(.).(.)(.)(.)(.)..(.)(.)(.)..(.)......(.)/,$"),$=++;$.++;$.++;
$_++;$_++;($_,$\,$,)=($~.$"."$;$/$%[$?]$_$\$,$:$%[$?]",$"&$~,$#,);$,++
;$,++;$^|=$";`$_$\$,$/$:$;$~$*$%[$?]$.$~$*${#}$%[$?]$;$\$"$^$~$*.>&$=`

Dan Jones <> wrote in
news:JLydndLDt-SG__XcRVn-:

> Uri Guttman wrote:
>
>>>>>>> "EJR" == Eric J Roode <> writes:
>>
>> >> Is it possible?
>>
>> EJR> Strange that you could figure out how to print the indirect
>> value EJR> out, but you couldn't figure out how to assign
>> indirectly.
>>
>> EJR> ${$v1} = "it worked!";
>>
>>
>> strange that you should know better than to give a symref answer
>> without all the usual caveats on how dangerous and wrong it is.
>>
>> $hash{$v1} = 'better than just working!' ;
>
> Care to expound? What is dangerous about the first example? What's
> with the "hash" in the second? As I understand it, there was no hash
> involved - it was the name of a scalar variable stored as a string in
> another scalar. Is hash a keyword or simply a variable name? If this
> is a FAQ or a perldoc question, a pointer to the right location would
> be appreciated. I don't find anything looking there and a Google for
> $hash doesn't show up anything that seems relevant.

Okay, I take it back, Uri.

Dan:
It is a FAQ; pointers to the FAQ are posted here regularly, and can
be found by a quick google search, or (iirc) at rtfm.mit.edu.

In short: using a hash instead of variable-names-as-a-variable is far
superior for several reasons. The hash is neater (it's one data
structure instead of multiple); it encapsulates the data in one neat
package, and allows it to be hidden better within a subroutine or an
object (insofar as Perl allows data to be hidden) (Encapsulation and Data
Hiding are two important concepts in modern computer science); the
variable-name approach can often lead to hard-to-find bugs due to typos
and bad logic.

No experienced Perl programmer uses variables as variable names
except in those rare situations when no other approach will work.

(Better, Uri? )
--
Eric
`$=`;$_=\%!;($_)=/(.)/;$==++$|;($.,$/,$,,$\,$",$;,$^,$#,$~,$*,$:,@%)=(
$!=~/(.)(.).(.)(.)(.)(.)..(.)(.)(.)..(.)......(.)/,$"),$=++;$.++;$.++;
$_++;$_++;($_,$\,$,)=($~.$"."$;$/$%[$?]$_$\$,$:$%[$?]",$"&$~,$#,);$,++
;$,++;$^|=$";`$_$\$,$/$:$;$~$*$%[$?]$.$~$*${#}$%[$?]$;$\$"$^$~$*.>&$=`

>>>>> "EJR" == Eric J Roode <> writes:

EJR> Dan Jones <> wrote in
EJR> news:JLydndLDt-SG__XcRVn-:

>> Uri Guttman wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> "EJR" == Eric J Roode <> writes:
>>>
>>> >> Is it possible?
>>>
EJR> Strange that you could figure out how to print the indirect
>>> value EJR> out, but you couldn't figure out how to assign
>>> indirectly.
>>>
EJR> ${$v1} = "it worked!";
>>>
>>>
>>> strange that you should know better than to give a symref answer
>>> without all the usual caveats on how dangerous and wrong it is.
>>>
>>> $hash{$v1} = 'better than just working!' ;

EJR> Okay, I take it back, Uri.

EJR> Dan:
EJR> It is a FAQ; pointers to the FAQ are posted here regularly, and can
EJR> be found by a quick google search, or (iirc) at rtfm.mit.edu.

EJR> In short: using a hash instead of variable-names-as-a-variable is far
EJR> superior for several reasons. The hash is neater (it's one data
EJR> structure instead of multiple); it encapsulates the data in one neat
EJR> package, and allows it to be hidden better within a subroutine or an
EJR> object (insofar as Perl allows data to be hidden) (Encapsulation and Data
EJR> Hiding are two important concepts in modern computer science); the
EJR> variable-name approach can often lead to hard-to-find bugs due to typos
EJR> and bad logic.

EJR> No experienced Perl programmer uses variables as variable names
EJR> except in those rare situations when no other approach will work.

EJR> (Better, Uri? )

better but not perfect!

you should have hunted down all copies of your erroneous post and
deleted them and burned all the disks that even carried it.



and the rule for symrefs is simple. ONLY use symrefs when you NEED to
mung the symbol table. they have no other purpose and regular hashes
are better in every way for munging data.

uri

--
Uri Guttman ------ -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org

>>>>> "EJR" == Eric J Roode <> writes:

EJR> Uri Guttman <> wrote in
EJR> news:

>>>>>>> "EJR" == Eric J Roode <> writes:
>>
>> >> Is it possible?
>>
EJR> Strange that you could figure out how to print the indirect value
EJR> out, but you couldn't figure out how to assign indirectly.
>>
EJR> ${$v1} = "it worked!";
>>
>>
>> strange that you should know better than to give a symref answer without
>> all the usual caveats on how dangerous and wrong it is.
>>
>> $hash{$v1} = 'better than just working!' ;

EJR> Aw, Uri, you're not letting me have any fun!

EJR> Actually, I didn't feel it necessary, since others had already
EJR> given good reasons not to do so (and to read the FAQ).

but he may have read your post first. or someone may find it in
google. if strict were on by default (other than for one liners) we
wouldn't have this newbie use of symref syndrome.

uri

--
Uri Guttman ------ -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org