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other perl groups

 
 
pfancy
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      04-26-2004
Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out people who are NEW
to perl.


 
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Uri Guttman
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      04-26-2004
>>>>> "p" == pfancy <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

p> Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out people who
p> are NEW to perl.

why don't you ask those groups if there are any?

kind of odd to ask this group for help while you insult them.

and there are plenty of resources to help you learn perl. hmm, perl
comes with plenty of docs and many of them are actually tutorials. there
are at least 2 or more books published about perl. maybe that number is
a trifle low.

what about all those great free scripts you can steal^Wborrow^Wlearn
from? millions of script kiddies who claim to know perl learned that
way!

ever heard of something called school or training?

i just heard of this neat thing called the interweb. maybe it could help
you?

is that helpful enough?

uri

--
Uri Guttman ------ http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
 
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Tad McClellan
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      04-26-2004
pfancy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out people who are NEW
> to perl.



We do that here in this very newsgroup.

What made you think that we don't?


--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
(E-Mail Removed) Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
 
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Charlton Wilbur
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      04-26-2004
>>>>> "pfancy" == pfancy <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

pfancy> Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out
pfancy> people who are NEW to perl.

This one will. Of course, the help you get will most likely be the
help you *need* rather than the help you *want*. No group is going to
be as helpful to a beginner as sitting down for six to eight weeks and
working your way through a good book. No group is going to be as
helpful to a beginner as sitting down for an hour or two a week with a
good teacher. And no group *at all* is going to help you with "write
a program that does this for me, for free."

If you want this group to be helpful, here's what you do.

* Spend at least twenty minutes looking for the answer to your
question in _Learning Perl_, _Elements of Programming with Perl_,
_Programming Perl_, and _The Perl Cookbook_ -- or preferably all
four. If there's an answer there and you ask the question here, all
that will happen here is that you'll be told to RTFM, possibly with
a pointer to the appropriate FM to read. This happens because if
there's already a good explanation of the problem and its solution
somewhere, then it's better to point the querent at that than to
answer it all over again, which takes substantially more time and
effort -- and the help you're getting here is FREE, donated by
VOLUNTEERS.

* Read at least the questions in the Perl FAQ. If your question or
something very similar is there, read the answer. If there's an
answer there and you ask the question here, all that will happen
here is that you'll be told to RTFF, possibly with a pointer to the
appropriate entry to read. This happens for much the same reason:
the FAQ entries are there because many people asked the same
question, and so instead of investing their effort in writing a
hundred different responses, the FAQ authors and maintainers
invested their effort into writing one very good response and
checking it extensively for accuracy.

* If you find the answer somewhere else and don't understand it, by
all means say so, and try to ask specifically about what you don't
understand. This lets people know that (a) you're willing to invest
your own effort and do research on your own, which means you're not
one of the "write my program for me for free!" sorts of posters; and
(b) you'll get responses that aren't just 'RTFM!' because it's clear
that you already have and are asking about something you don't
understand.

* If you've asked a question before and gotten advice, make sure you
are following that advice when you ask your next question. You can
see this trend with Robin: when he first started asking his
questions, people were horrified at the bugs in his code, and
offered advice. Now, several weeks later, he's posting code with
the same bad habits and the same bugs, and the reaction has changed
from horrified but helpful to "shut up and go away, troll who is
unwilling to learn."

* Remember that the people here are volunteers. Many of us are quite
willing to tutor people in Perl, just not for free and not over
Usenet. If you need extensive help and prefer to be walked through
things by a tutor instead of teaching yourself based on a good book,
then you're not going to be very satisfied with the experience
here. Find a local Perl teacher, and pay him or her $30 an hour to
teach you; or take a programming class at your local community
college. Everyone will be happier that way.

Charlton


--
cwilbur at chromatico dot net
cwilbur at mac dot com
 
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Tassilo v. Parseval
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-26-2004
Also sprach Charlton Wilbur:

> If you want this group to be helpful, here's what you do.
>
> * Spend at least twenty minutes looking for the answer to your
> question in _Learning Perl_, _Elements of Programming with Perl_,
> _Programming Perl_, and _The Perl Cookbook_ -- or preferably all
> four. If there's an answer there and you ask the question here, all
> that will happen here is that you'll be told to RTFM, possibly with
> a pointer to the appropriate FM to read.


What you list are four books. None of them is a manual and hence RTFM
can't apply to any of them.

People need to have a preliminary scan through the perldocs and the
FAQs. That's all there is to do before posting.

Tassilo
--
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus}) !JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexi ixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
 
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Gunnar Hjalmarsson
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-26-2004
Tassilo v. Parseval wrote:
> People need to have a preliminary scan through the perldocs and the
> FAQs. That's all there is to do before posting.


I agree. But don't forget that quite a few posters seem to not have a
clue of the language. Asking them to "scan through the perldocs and
the FAQs" is not very meaningful.

What I'm trying to say is that in order to 'qualify' for asking for
help with a specific Perl programming issue, people should first have
gained a minimum level of Perl knowledge. Not sure what that would be
- maybe perlintro?

So yes, people should have RTFM first. But to be able to do so, they
need to know *something*. Accordingly, knowing *something* should also
be a requirement.

--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl

 
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ctcgag@hotmail.com
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-26-2004
"pfancy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out people who are
> NEW to perl.


I was new to perl not that long ago, and I found
this group extremely helpful.

Xho

--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB
 
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James Willmore
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-26-2004
On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:30:54 -0500, pfancy wrote:

> Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out people who are NEW
> to perl.


Post a question here and you'll get a response We do Perl here

If you want something to get you started, read the documentation that
comes with Perl. perldoc is the utility to read Perl documentation. For
your starting place, type

perldoc perl

and read This *should* spark some further reading.

And, you could just read some of the posts here in this newsgroup to see
if what you needed answered has been asked and answered before

HTH

--
Jim

Copyright notice: all code written by the author in this post is
released under the GPL. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt
for more information.

a fortune quote ...
Never call a man a fool. Borrow from him.


 
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pfancy
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-26-2004

"Uri Guttman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> >>>>> "p" == pfancy <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

>
> p> Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out people who
> p> are NEW to perl.
>
> why don't you ask those groups if there are any?
>
> kind of odd to ask this group for help while you insult them.
>
> and there are plenty of resources to help you learn perl. hmm, perl
> comes with plenty of docs and many of them are actually tutorials. there
> are at least 2 or more books published about perl. maybe that number is
> a trifle low.
>
> what about all those great free scripts you can steal^Wborrow^Wlearn
> from? millions of script kiddies who claim to know perl learned that
> way!
>
> ever heard of something called school or training?
>
> i just heard of this neat thing called the interweb. maybe it could help
> you?
>
> is that helpful enough?
>
> uri
>
> --
> Uri Guttman ------ (E-Mail Removed) --------

http://www.stemsystems.com
> --Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and

Coding-
> Search or Offer Perl Jobs ----------------------------

http://jobs.perl.org

Forgive me for insulting but some of you in this group insulted me. (it was
one of the perl groups.) I asked for help and I got insulted. So I don't
know what more to say. I am absolutely new beginner of perl and I need help
if anyone is willing to help me out if not. OH well.


 
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pfancy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-26-2004

"Charlton Wilbur" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >>>>> "pfancy" == pfancy <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

>
> pfancy> Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out
> pfancy> people who are NEW to perl.
>
> This one will. Of course, the help you get will most likely be the
> help you *need* rather than the help you *want*. No group is going to
> be as helpful to a beginner as sitting down for six to eight weeks and
> working your way through a good book. No group is going to be as
> helpful to a beginner as sitting down for an hour or two a week with a
> good teacher. And no group *at all* is going to help you with "write
> a program that does this for me, for free."
>
> If you want this group to be helpful, here's what you do.
>
> * Spend at least twenty minutes looking for the answer to your
> question in _Learning Perl_, _Elements of Programming with Perl_,
> _Programming Perl_, and _The Perl Cookbook_ -- or preferably all
> four. If there's an answer there and you ask the question here, all
> that will happen here is that you'll be told to RTFM, possibly with
> a pointer to the appropriate FM to read. This happens because if
> there's already a good explanation of the problem and its solution
> somewhere, then it's better to point the querent at that than to
> answer it all over again, which takes substantially more time and
> effort -- and the help you're getting here is FREE, donated by
> VOLUNTEERS.
>
> * Read at least the questions in the Perl FAQ. If your question or
> something very similar is there, read the answer. If there's an
> answer there and you ask the question here, all that will happen
> here is that you'll be told to RTFF, possibly with a pointer to the
> appropriate entry to read. This happens for much the same reason:
> the FAQ entries are there because many people asked the same
> question, and so instead of investing their effort in writing a
> hundred different responses, the FAQ authors and maintainers
> invested their effort into writing one very good response and
> checking it extensively for accuracy.
>
> * If you find the answer somewhere else and don't understand it, by
> all means say so, and try to ask specifically about what you don't
> understand. This lets people know that (a) you're willing to invest
> your own effort and do research on your own, which means you're not
> one of the "write my program for me for free!" sorts of posters; and
> (b) you'll get responses that aren't just 'RTFM!' because it's clear
> that you already have and are asking about something you don't
> understand.
>
> * If you've asked a question before and gotten advice, make sure you
> are following that advice when you ask your next question. You can
> see this trend with Robin: when he first started asking his
> questions, people were horrified at the bugs in his code, and
> offered advice. Now, several weeks later, he's posting code with
> the same bad habits and the same bugs, and the reaction has changed
> from horrified but helpful to "shut up and go away, troll who is
> unwilling to learn."
>
> * Remember that the people here are volunteers. Many of us are quite
> willing to tutor people in Perl, just not for free and not over
> Usenet. If you need extensive help and prefer to be walked through
> things by a tutor instead of teaching yourself based on a good book,
> then you're not going to be very satisfied with the experience
> here. Find a local Perl teacher, and pay him or her $30 an hour to
> teach you; or take a programming class at your local community
> college. Everyone will be happier that way.
>
> Charlton

Believe it or not. The first thing I did was read books look for beginning
perl online and I did not find what is recommended to be download and what
to use to run perl. So I ask for it here. Maybe I just get upset when I
see people asking for help and they get pushed around. I know they are some
people who ask for help before research and they are some that do research
first and get the cold shoulder for asking for help. Some of us are slow
learners. but that doesn't mean we are dumb. because some of us are very
bright once it clicks in our brains. Just thought I would express myself.

You know I am looking into taking a course.


 
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