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and why can't I do my own CGI?

 
 
Jeff 'japhy' Pinyan
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      08-16-2003
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, Hudson wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:19:32 -0700, Hudson
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>I don't see why I have to use some huge module when the ideas behind it are
>>simple...

>
>for example...
>
>get input
>know what you are doing with it
>don't use it for things that can **** up your system unless you check it
>what else is there?


You'd be surprised how hard it is to do these things right.

Are you dealing with POST or GET?

Are you dealing with a file upload? (That's not easy or fun to do from
scratch.)

Are you handling multiple fields with the same name properly?

Are you storing the data safely?

Etc.

(And you don't need to post each sentence of an idea as a separate article
in the newsgroup. And your attitude is likely to get you ignored by the
people that could help you the most.)

--
Jeff Pinyan RPI Acacia Brother #734 2003 Rush Chairman
"And I vos head of Gestapo for ten | Michael Palin (as Heinrich Bimmler)
years. Ah! Five years! Nein! No! | in: The North Minehead Bye-Election
Oh. Was NOT head of Gestapo AT ALL!" | (Monty Python's Flying Circus)

 
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Tassilo v. Parseval
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      08-16-2003
Also sprach Hudson:

> On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:37:08 -0400, Jeff 'japhy' Pinyan
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>You'd be surprised how hard it is to do these things right.
>>
>>Are you dealing with POST or GET?
>>
>>Are you dealing with a file upload? (That's not easy or fun to do from
>>scratch.)
>>
>>Are you handling multiple fields with the same name properly?
>>
>>Are you storing the data safely?

>
> like I said...know what you are doing with the data...it is not so hard...


Nothing appears to be hard for you. So what do you want from this group?
If things are really that simple but you nonetheless consult the group
for help, perhaps they are still too tall an order for you.

Tassilo
--
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus}) !JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexi ixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
 
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Hudson
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      08-16-2003
I don't see why I have to use some huge module when the ideas behind it are
simple...
 
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Hudson
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      08-16-2003
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:19:32 -0700, Hudson
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I don't see why I have to use some huge module when the ideas behind it are
>simple...


for example...

get input
know what you are doing with it
don't use it for things that can **** up your system unless you check it
what else is there?
 
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Hudson
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      08-16-2003
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:37:08 -0400, Jeff 'japhy' Pinyan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>(And you don't need to post each sentence of an idea as a separate article
>in the newsgroup. And your attitude is likely to get you ignored by the
>people that could help you the most.)


what attitude? I just got attacked from uri because I dared to think different
than him...so of course it makes me ****ed
 
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Hudson
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      08-16-2003
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:37:08 -0400, Jeff 'japhy' Pinyan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>You'd be surprised how hard it is to do these things right.
>
>Are you dealing with POST or GET?
>
>Are you dealing with a file upload? (That's not easy or fun to do from
>scratch.)
>
>Are you handling multiple fields with the same name properly?
>
>Are you storing the data safely?


like I said...know what you are doing with the data...it is not so hard...
 
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Randal L. Schwartz
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      08-16-2003
>>>>> "hudson" == hudson <(E-Mail Removed) > writes:

hudson> bah....I just thought this was the "abuse me please" channel. anyway,
hudson> as other people have mentioned before, this group does seem a bit
hudson> dogmatic on certain topics

s/dog/prag/, please.

We say what we say only because most of us have been around the block
a few times, gotten burned on bad practices, and are now passing along
good practices.

Hand-coding instead of using a well-established module is fine in the
privacy of your own cube, but don't post it on the net, or expect to
be applauded for it.

Now, if you had said instead "I've studied all of CGI.pm, and read
the bug log, and understand why each feature is there, and now
I've written something that does everything CGI.pm does and better,
and is more secure and faster", you'd get a hella lot respect.

Instead, you poo-poo the work that has happened before you in terms of
portability, usability, and security, and therefore practicality.

That will earn you no respect here. That's an immature programmer (of
any age) talking who thinks they know more about programming than we
know they know.

The most important thing to know (at least in this industry is
that YOU DON'T KNOW why someone else did something, until you look.

Presumption that you know is the kind of arrogance that causes shuttle
tanks to blow up, moon capsules to explode mid-way to the moon, and
ice damage to break up shuttles on reentry.

You're being given some good advice here... and it's consistent. It's
not just a few people. You walk into a discussion area and get a
consistent prodding to not reinvent a wheel you don't fully
understand. Your best plan at this point is to at least understand
why we're all saying that at the same time!

But, if you won't follow that advice, the best next advice is don't
post any more code, because you seem to be unable to handle the
feedback that a professional programmer gets and gives. No point
subjecting yourself to that here.

I've been writing code for over three decades. I still learn
something every day by looking at other people's code. Don't be so
close-minded so early in the cycle.

print "Just another Perl hacker,";

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<(E-Mail Removed)> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
 
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Uri Guttman
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      08-17-2003
>>>>> "h" == hudson <(E-Mail Removed) > writes:

h> I think you are very wrong here in what you are saying. I just came
h> to say...hey...there are not really a lot of examples of using soap
h> with perl without the module and bam! I got slammed.

h> And using soap via IO::Socket is so easy. So I posted up my little
h> piece of code and people started calling me names.

you use the io::socket module? why not use real sockets. real
programmers do that.

you contradict yourself at every turn. and you have succeeded in
alienating the entire group. contragulations! and by the way, code
criticism is not hate. learn that too. that way lie moronzilla's
disease.

you have promised to shut up on this already. when will that happen? and
learn c. you will have so much fun reinventing all the problems
regarding pointers, memory management. i can see you now declaring that
all your c code is perfectly fine for mission critical systems.

uri

--
Uri Guttman ------ http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
 
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hudson
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      08-17-2003
>Nothing appears to be hard for you. So what do you want from this group?
>If things are really that simple but you nonetheless consult the group
>for help, perhaps they are still too tall an order for you.
>


bah....I just thought this was the "abuse me please" channel. anyway,
as other people have mentioned before, this group does seem a bit
dogmatic on certain topics

 
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Eric J. Roode
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      08-17-2003
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

hudson <(E-Mail Removed) > wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

>>you use the io::socket module? why not use real sockets. real
>>programmers do that.

>
> hey uri....I'm all ears...please tell me about it.
>
> can you do real sockets in perl? or are you talking C function
> calls....


<sigh>

Yes. Look up the following Perl builtin functions:

accept, bind, connect, getpeername, getsockname, getsockopt, listen,
recv, send, setsockopt, shutdown, socket, socketpair.

It's good to write things like soap, CGI, and socket stuff by hand from
scratch, but *only* as a programming exercise; never for the real world,
even if you only use it on your own play systems. I've done socket
programming in C, and in Perl using the above functions, and in Perl
using IO::Socket. I've done CGI programming by hand, using my own code
to parse the input data, and I've used CGI.pm. I've never done Soap in
any language; but you can be sure I'd use a module. In all cases, it is
instructive and illustrative to code it by hand, to understand what's
going on under the hood, but for anything approaching the real world, an
off-the-shelf module will almost certainly do the job better and more
efficiently than you (or I) can.

That said, one can't improve the state of Perl modules without knowing
what's going on under the hood and grokking the internals of the existing
modules. There are times when a wheel simply needs to be reinvented,
because the existing wheel is inadequate (example: Module::Build coming
out over the existing ExtUtils::MakeMaker). But -- not to sound
condescending -- "it is not yet time for you to leave, Grasshopper."



- --
Eric
$_ = reverse sort $ /. r , qw p ekca lre uJ reh
ts p , map $ _. $ " , qw e p h tona e and print

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iQA/AwUBPz702mPeouIeTNHoEQJIhACcDrGVotHxxa6xTT0QI+ct5L zWfisAn2iK
AlO2edijq3V+cToWJV7enHEj
=ctns
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
 
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