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Browser to fullscreen - solution needed for many browser/platform combinations

 
 
msa
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-28-2004
Hi there,

First off, let me say that I know that launching to full screen is a
bad idea. I would never do it given the choice, but I must follow
orders from my boss, the boss that desparately wants a desktop
application made out of Internet technologies.

We're writing an application that has JavaScript enabled as a client
machine requirement. We need to support Windows with IE 5+ and
Netscape 7+ plus Mac with IE 5+ and Netscape 6.2+.

I need to launch the application into fullscreen mode from each of
these browser/platform combinations using window.open.

Note that expanding the launched window to take up the entire screen
won't cut it, and I'm okay with the fact that, in Netscape, the title
bar will remain.

I'm fairly new to JavaScript, and my boss just told me now that he
needs a solution for this by tomorrow. Yikes! I've looked at the
newsgroup posts on this topic, but most say either you shouldn't do
this or gives a solution to maximize the window instead of forcing it
to fullscreen.

So, can someone please provide me with
1. if fullscreen can be accomplished for each combination listed
2. JavaScript code that will accomplish fullscreen with each
combination

Thanks a million for your help!
 
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DU
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-28-2004
msa wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> First off, let me say that I know that launching to full screen is a
> bad idea. I would never do it given the choice, but I must follow
> orders from my boss, the boss that desparately wants a desktop
> application made out of Internet technologies.
>


Sorry there. You must not know how bad it really is then because the
first thing to do is to convince your boss with the arguments you know
about.

> We're writing an application that has JavaScript enabled as a client
> machine requirement. We need to support Windows with IE 5+ and
> Netscape 7+ plus Mac with IE 5+ and Netscape 6.2+.
>


AFAIK, NS 6.2+ and NS 7.x have turn off fullscreen.

> I need to launch the application into fullscreen mode from each of
> these browser/platform combinations using window.open.
>


How in the world can you make Mozilla-users do that? How is your webpage
going to make proxomitron users do that? How is your webpage going to
make Opera 7.x users do that?
Your request is childish, unrealistic and disconnected from any/all
basic usability principles.

> Note that expanding the launched window to take up the entire screen
> won't cut it, and I'm okay with the fact that, in Netscape, the title
> bar will remain.
>
> I'm fairly new to JavaScript,


Yes you definitively are.

and my boss just told me now that he
> needs a solution for this by tomorrow. Yikes! I've looked at the
> newsgroup posts on this topic, but most say either you shouldn't do
> this or gives a solution to maximize the window instead of forcing it
> to fullscreen.


Most Mozilla-based browser users and Opera 7.x users and proxomitron
users disable resizing existing windows. So, you may think you're
succeeding into maximizing a window but in fact you most likely fail
everytime for a majority of users.

>
> So, can someone please provide me with
> 1. if fullscreen can be accomplished for each combination listed
> 2. JavaScript code that will accomplish fullscreen with each
> combination
>
> Thanks a million for your help!


Start understanding why fullscreen windows is a bad idea and then
explain your position to your boss. Either way, it won't matter a lot
since pure force on visitors and users rarely achieves the pursued goals.
A web author (through his boss or not) trying to impose his preferences
regarding the users' browser feature (toolbars, size, positions,
resizability, etc.) is a bad, incompetent web author who is going to fail.

DU
 
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David Dorward
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-29-2004
msa wrote:

> First off, let me say that I know that launching to full screen is a
> bad idea. I would never do it given the choice, but I must follow
> orders from my boss, the boss that desparately wants a desktop
> application made out of Internet technologies.


First show him this:
http://www.dorward.me.uk/dumb/fullscreen.jpeg

Then point out that while many "Internet technologies" are useful for
building desktop applications around, web browsers are rarely among them.
It sounds like somebody is letting the tool define the end product rather
then the other way around.

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
 
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Brian Genisio
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-29-2004
DU wrote:

> msa wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> First off, let me say that I know that launching to full screen is a
>> bad idea. I would never do it given the choice, but I must follow
>> orders from my boss, the boss that desparately wants a desktop
>> application made out of Internet technologies.
>>

>
> Sorry there. You must not know how bad it really is then because the
> first thing to do is to convince your boss with the arguments you know
> about.
>
>> We're writing an application that has JavaScript enabled as a client
>> machine requirement. We need to support Windows with IE 5+ and
>> Netscape 7+ plus Mac with IE 5+ and Netscape 6.2+.
>>

>
> AFAIK, NS 6.2+ and NS 7.x have turn off fullscreen.
>
>> I need to launch the application into fullscreen mode from each of
>> these browser/platform combinations using window.open.
>>

>
> How in the world can you make Mozilla-users do that? How is your webpage
> going to make proxomitron users do that? How is your webpage going to
> make Opera 7.x users do that?
> Your request is childish, unrealistic and disconnected from any/all
> basic usability principles.
>
>> Note that expanding the launched window to take up the entire screen
>> won't cut it, and I'm okay with the fact that, in Netscape, the title
>> bar will remain.
>>
>> I'm fairly new to JavaScript,

>
>
> Yes you definitively are.
>
> and my boss just told me now that he
>
>> needs a solution for this by tomorrow. Yikes! I've looked at the
>> newsgroup posts on this topic, but most say either you shouldn't do
>> this or gives a solution to maximize the window instead of forcing it
>> to fullscreen.

>
>
> Most Mozilla-based browser users and Opera 7.x users and proxomitron
> users disable resizing existing windows. So, you may think you're
> succeeding into maximizing a window but in fact you most likely fail
> everytime for a majority of users.
>
>>
>> So, can someone please provide me with
>> 1. if fullscreen can be accomplished for each combination listed
>> 2. JavaScript code that will accomplish fullscreen with each
>> combination
>>
>> Thanks a million for your help!

>
>
> Start understanding why fullscreen windows is a bad idea and then
> explain your position to your boss. Either way, it won't matter a lot
> since pure force on visitors and users rarely achieves the pursued goals.
> A web author (through his boss or not) trying to impose his preferences
> regarding the users' browser feature (toolbars, size, positions,
> resizability, etc.) is a bad, incompetent web author who is going to fail.
>
> DU


Wow. That was completely unnecessary. A requirement is a requirement.
The Boss wants it, there is little he can do to change his mind, other
than show the boss that it cannot be done. It is likely that the boss
will want it done as well as possible, even if only a few browsers are
supported. It is likely that the boss has seen it done before,
therefore knows it can be done, and cares little on the reasons against
it. Of course, there is nothing wrong with trying to convince the boss
against doing something like this, but I object to your method of
patronizing, condescending tone.

The OP started off saying that he knew it was bad. You really don't
need to be such a jackazz about this. In your message you belittle the
OP and insult him/her. It is childish, and not needed here. The OP was
completely clear in his position, and is desperate for help. An answer
such as "It cannot be done because of X" is useful. Saying "Your
request is childish, unrealistic and disconnected" is crap. Calling the
OP a "bad, incompetent web author who is going to fail" is also crap.

Grow up.
Brian

 
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M A
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-29-2004
Thanks, Brian. You're lovely and have a good head on your shoulders.
You'll make a great leader one day, if you aren't already.

Let me stress again that this solution is needed for a LAN application,
not a web site. No, that doesn't make it any more acceptable, but I'm
pointing this out to explain why I need a solution only for Netscape and
IE.

The requirement for fullscreen original came from the client who has
asked us to build this application. After days and days of fighting
this requirement, I've opted to keep my job and give it a shot instead
of doing something rash and foolish like quitting.



*** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***
Don't just participate in USENET...get rewarded for it!
 
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William Morris
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-29-2004
Jesus, DU, lighten up and read his post. Boss requirements, intranet app,
all that. If you can't post something constructive, at least don't
sermonize.

For the last five years, I've been working on an inter/intranet application
for business clients wanting to track complex relational data. I've become
somewhat of an expert on what works, what doesn't inside the browser, and
the fact of the matter is you're limited by the technology.

About six months ago, my "boss" - the senior partner who writes the checks,
at any rate - suggested it would be a great idea to have the application
open fullscreen. In IE5.5 and higher, that's a no-brainer. The problem is,
there's a bug in IE that causes certain parts of the interface to stop
functioning when you do that - it completely screws up the IE interface when
you try ( and I do mean, ~try~) to return to normal. Other browsers - as
other posters have noted - don't even allow that.

msa, I hate to say this, but you're screwed. You've been placed in an
impossible position, and one that is drastically unpopular with the
knee-jerkers of the programming world (re: DU, above). If I had to support
as many platforms and browsers as you, I'd quit my job. I really would.

Thank God we standardized on one platform (PC Windows 98se+) and one browser
(IE5.5+). Without starting a "Microsoft is evil" holy war over it, limiting
ourselves and the dictating those requirements to our client-base has made
the development process extremely efficient and cost effective.

Solution by tomorrow? That's a "boss" for you. The solution is "Sorry,
can't, the technologies as they are don't allow it, or are implemented in a
way that causes problems in the OS. What problem are you trying to solve to
which you think fullscreen is the solution?"

You find the pain point, msa, and you, as the developer, suggest the
solution. Your boss has it backwards.

- Wm

--
William Morris
Product Development, Seritas LLC
Kansas City, Missouri



"DU" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:c6pb0s$la0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> msa wrote:
>
> > Hi there,
> >
> > First off, let me say that I know that launching to full screen is a
> > bad idea. I would never do it given the choice, but I must follow
> > orders from my boss, the boss that desparately wants a desktop
> > application made out of Internet technologies.
> >

>
> Sorry there. You must not know how bad it really is then because the
> first thing to do is to convince your boss with the arguments you know
> about.
>
> > We're writing an application that has JavaScript enabled as a client
> > machine requirement. We need to support Windows with IE 5+ and
> > Netscape 7+ plus Mac with IE 5+ and Netscape 6.2+.
> >

>
> AFAIK, NS 6.2+ and NS 7.x have turn off fullscreen.
>
> > I need to launch the application into fullscreen mode from each of
> > these browser/platform combinations using window.open.
> >

>
> How in the world can you make Mozilla-users do that? How is your webpage
> going to make proxomitron users do that? How is your webpage going to
> make Opera 7.x users do that?
> Your request is childish, unrealistic and disconnected from any/all
> basic usability principles.
>
> > Note that expanding the launched window to take up the entire screen
> > won't cut it, and I'm okay with the fact that, in Netscape, the title
> > bar will remain.
> >
> > I'm fairly new to JavaScript,

>
> Yes you definitively are.
>
> and my boss just told me now that he
> > needs a solution for this by tomorrow. Yikes! I've looked at the
> > newsgroup posts on this topic, but most say either you shouldn't do
> > this or gives a solution to maximize the window instead of forcing it
> > to fullscreen.

>
> Most Mozilla-based browser users and Opera 7.x users and proxomitron
> users disable resizing existing windows. So, you may think you're
> succeeding into maximizing a window but in fact you most likely fail
> everytime for a majority of users.
>
> >
> > So, can someone please provide me with
> > 1. if fullscreen can be accomplished for each combination listed
> > 2. JavaScript code that will accomplish fullscreen with each
> > combination
> >
> > Thanks a million for your help!

>
> Start understanding why fullscreen windows is a bad idea and then
> explain your position to your boss. Either way, it won't matter a lot
> since pure force on visitors and users rarely achieves the pursued goals.
> A web author (through his boss or not) trying to impose his preferences
> regarding the users' browser feature (toolbars, size, positions,
> resizability, etc.) is a bad, incompetent web author who is going to fail.
>
> DU



 
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Jim Ley
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-29-2004
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:54:14 -0400, Brian Genisio
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>DU wrote:
>Wow. That was completely unnecessary. A requirement is a requirement.
> The Boss wants it, there is little he can do to change his mind, other
>than show the boss that it cannot be done.


This seems to be a peculiar viewpoint on the boss/employee
relationship, one that seems more prevalent in certain
countries/communities. Requirements are always negotiable, they
have to be, as in this case if the requirement is impossible, but the
developer should always let the boss know if the requirement is bad
(on accessibility, on cost to support, on cost to implement, on risk
to security etc. etc.) If you just follow orders, you are a _very
bad_ employee.

> It is likely that the boss has seen it done before,
>therefore knows it can be done,


but in this case it certainly can't be done.

Jim.
--
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/

 
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William Morris
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-29-2004

> countries/communities. Requirements are always negotiable, they
> have to be, as in this case if the requirement is impossible, but the
> developer should always let the boss know if the requirement is bad
> (on accessibility, on cost to support, on cost to implement, on risk


Which is a very good way to handle it: put it in terms of $$ dollars $$.

> to security etc. etc.) If you just follow orders, you are a _very
> bad_ employee.


Yeah, until the boss starts building a guillotine in the company cafeteria.

William Morris
Product Development, Seritas LLC
Kansas City, Missouri


 
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Brian Genisio
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-29-2004
Jim Ley wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:54:14 -0400, Brian Genisio
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>DU wrote:
>>Wow. That was completely unnecessary. A requirement is a requirement.
>> The Boss wants it, there is little he can do to change his mind, other
>>than show the boss that it cannot be done.

>
>
> This seems to be a peculiar viewpoint on the boss/employee
> relationship, one that seems more prevalent in certain
> countries/communities. Requirements are always negotiable, they
> have to be, as in this case if the requirement is impossible, but the
> developer should always let the boss know if the requirement is bad
> (on accessibility, on cost to support, on cost to implement, on risk
> to security etc. etc.) If you just follow orders, you are a _very
> bad_ employee.
>


This is not a peculiar viewpoint at all. If the employee just shuts up,
when he/she knows there is an issue, then there is a problem... I
agree. But, if you tell a boss or a customer that "What you want is not
considered a good idea by the community" and they come back to say "This
is what we want", then the implementer does not really have any say in
the requierement.

People make the blanket assumption that "just follow[ing] orders" is
what the OP is doing. You cannot make that assumption. From the way
the OP wrote it, it really sounds like the OP knows why it is bad, and
the boss wants it anyways. If you cannot convince the boss otherwise,
then you either implement it via specification, or prove that it cannot
be done. To say that "Requirements are always negotiable", you are
living in a dream world. To an implementer, requirements are _not_
always negotiable. If a requirement is a bad idea, and you explain why,
and the customer/boss still wants the requirment, there is not much you
can do.


>> It is likely that the boss has seen it done before,
>>therefore knows it can be done,

>
> but in this case it certainly can't be done.


I know that I have had web browsers take me into a full-screen (or a
pseudo-full-screen) mode automatically. If this is all I know, then the
only thing the OP can do is come back and prove why this cannot be done.
If one of the requirements is that the app in IE, and you can only get
it done in IE, then that is still acceptable to a boss. Doing more than
necessary for a requirement is often a bad move, unless the development
time is close to free. A developer peon will not convince a boss
otherwise. Only if nothing can be done, will a stuborn boss revist the
requirement.

The OP wanted to know if it can be done. He asked because he did not
know. DU came back with a completely unappropriate response. This
group exists for people to help others. Treating a poster like crap is
less than helpful.

We developers live in a world where we need to keep our jobs. Being
argumentitive does not aid in that goal. Being realistic does. The OP
was nothing but realistic and reasonable with the questions.

Brian

 
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Jim Ley
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-29-2004
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:03:34 -0400, Brian Genisio
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Jim Ley wrote:
>But, if you tell a boss or a customer that "What you want is not
>considered a good idea by the community" and they come back to say "This
>is what we want", then the implementer does not really have any say in
>the requierement.


Of he course he does. the implementor always has a say, and in this
case as we know the implementation is _impossible_ the implementor is
the final arbiter as he cannot deliver, now he can accept the task and
fail, or he can explain up front that it's impossible and offer the
plausible alternatives.

> To say that "Requirements are always negotiable", you are
>living in a dream world.


No, I live in the real world, and as a contractor monkey, I've very
little say in what I implement - you know what, I generally get
listend to though, because I can explain the cost of the various
options.

>I know that I have had web browsers take me into a full-screen (or a
>pseudo-full-screen) mode automatically.


Yep, it's possible in IE, with the caveat that un-fullscreening it
will cause problems which are generally unacceptable. The OP knew how
to do it in IE, but also wanted to do it in other browsers, those
can't do it.

>We developers live in a world where we need to keep our jobs. Being
>argumentitive does not aid in that goal. Being realistic does.


Learning to be a valuable employee who can add value to the company,
and not just do what you're told not caring if it does contribute to
the product will help your employment prospects a lot more than just
shutting up.

Jim.
--
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/

 
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