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Larry W... out of work ?? Impossible... or...

 
 
stu7
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      07-22-2003
+
...or is it ?

Lets look at what are likely the top reasons his book
company would have laid Larry off... well, first things
first... book sales down... but why ? Isn't PERL the most
popular thing to come around since email ? Sure... but,
who is it popular with ?

I first saw Perl the day it was released... I was IRCing
and somebody came around announcing this new thing, Perl, so
I checked it out... I forget what it offered at that time.
Since then, of course, Perl has grown immensely, and to
anyone willing to look, it is obvious that Perl now offers
an excellent programming framework, and endless specialized
support modules - Perl has, in addition, become a world effort...
but, to a commercial venture - a book publisher, for instance,
Perl is a gooey spit-out... it's a top grade product, with the
unfortunate reputation of being an internet no-no... why ?
Perl is NOT a professional offering... trying to make it
on a commercial level... there simply are no official
repesentatives of Perl - to anyone looking for help, we either
"buy a book", or, more often, [consult an internet Perl user
group]... this is where the goo gets sticky.
I would guess there aren't one-in-twenty prospective perl
users, who, after consulting one of the "internet Perl sources",
has had the positive response they expected, or even remains
very interested in using or learning Perl thereafter... goodbye
Perl reputation... Perl, suddenly, doesn't have any commercial
viability, when all it means is getting berated by a group of
self-styled technique experts, "discussion leaders", and, again,
anything BUT the [support people] any newcomer might expect
for real computer programming material.

There are other serious issues with Perl, not the least of
which was the prosecution of one of it's principals for "hacking"...
this charge never seemed entirely warranted, but the story doesn't
make Perl any more attractive, commercially.

Perl, I feel, remains unappreciated by most people, whether
or not they have used it extensively... but the real point of
this message was to bail out Larry W... or at least explain his
plight, and offer a possible answer. I, for one, find it
unlikely he would sacrifice economic security for the sake of
developing a new Perl framework... maybe, part of the new Perl
was to exclude some of the amateurish, stiflingly ineffacious
"expert documentation", or developmental directions...
...otherwise, it can't really be argued - Perl has real
usefulness, and there are likely endless business ventures who
could offer L.W. substantial monetary aid in exchange for his
expertise... but what is the real issue here ?
Is it even Perl related ? Is it open-source versus MicroSoft ?
Is it possible one gigantic freeware package is simply enough to
expect of one person in their lives ?
Linus got a job... why shouldn't Larry ?
I don't think either of them would, or should, opt for
dependency on an uncertain thing like the WWW/Internet... why
the whole Dot/Com blowout, do we imagine ? Its the same problem...
no permanence, solidity, or lasting value there... a boom market
with it's own built-in bust clientele.
I hope L.W. finds his way out of whatever problem it is,
sooner than later. Perl is perhaps as valuable as a lesson to
those who (wrongly) accept the Internet as an opportunity it
never proved itself to be.
 
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Keith Keller
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      07-22-2003
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In article <(E-Mail Removed) >, stu7 wrote:
> +
> ...or is it ?


[many many lines snipped]

You must be out of work, as well, to have wasted all that time
writing so much tripe. Good luck finding a new job.

(or perhaps you're upset at your perceived mistreatment by some
other folks in the newsgroup?...)

- --keith

- --
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
alt.os.linux.slackware FAQ: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom

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Martien Verbruggen
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      07-22-2003
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:59:33 -0400,
Bernie Cosell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (stu7) wrote:
>
> } I first saw Perl the day it was released... I was IRCing
> } and somebody came around announcing this new thing, Perl, so
> } I checked it out... I forget what it offered at that time.
>
> Wait a second -- IRC didn't appear until 1988 and Perl came out in 1987..


This guy is not only utterly clueless, he's also a troll. Ignore him.

Martien
--
|
Martien Verbruggen | We are born naked, wet and hungry. Then
Trading Post Australia | things get worse.
|
 
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Randal L. Schwartz
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      07-22-2003
>>>>> "stu7" == stu7 <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

stu7> I first saw Perl the day it was released... I was IRCing
stu7> and somebody came around announcing this new thing, Perl, so
stu7> I checked it out... I forget what it offered at that time.

This is your first factual mistake, and it only goes downhill from
here. Perl has been around since long before IP packets were flowing
near your sorry hiney.

The rest of the post is just the usual FUD from someone who has been
burned. Pay no heed.

Nice try. Move along. Nothing to see here.

print "Just another Perl hacker,";

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<(E-Mail Removed)> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
 
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stu7
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      07-23-2003
(E-Mail Removed) (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed) ws.com>...
> This is your first factual mistake, and it only goes downhill from
> here. Perl has been around since long before IP packets were flowing
> near your sorry hiney.

*** ...hiney... this is serious. Randal - if you even are the
*** real Randal - my post was intended to be both complimentary,
*** and as accurate as possible... perhaps you were wrongly
*** offended by my reference to yourself ? I suppose anyone
*** who read the post would see it was an attempt to defend
*** Perl... maybe you only read the whiney replies ?

> The rest of the post is just the usual FUD from someone who has been
> burned. Pay no heed.

*** Who got burned ?
*** Im no more put off by the latest batch of non-replies here
*** than any other time, and just try to ignore them... that was
*** in fact a major topic of my post - the destabilizing effect
*** of the massive amount of irreverent or malicious replies which
*** fill the Usenet groups... didn't you care to comment on this ?
*** Is it an embarrassing issue to take sides on ? No problem.
*** Im sorry.

> Nice try. Move along. Nothing to see here.

*** Im pretty sure it was the wrongly offended thing now
*** Im still not sure what a FUD is. Perhaps another time.
> print "Just another Perl hacker,";

 
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stu7
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      07-23-2003
*** ah... it's eric again... and same complaint as before.
*** The problem eric is, for one, I DID NOT ADDRESS MY POST
*** TO YOU... dont take it so personally ? And... you
*** evidently had nothing to say... not before... not now...
*** so far as the topic of my posts... so what is it we are
*** saying here ? Oh right... you're not going to reply, now
*** that you know Im a
***
*** At the outside, it is possible I was too eager to jump
*** on your non-reply in particular, and you may in fact
*** have intended no more than to point out a problem you
*** were having reading my post... but Email is more suited
*** for personalized problems like that, rather than adding
*** content to the newsgroup.
*** FYI - there is no problem with my quoting style whatsoever...
*** it works fine on Google_ it is in fact a style I was taught
*** to use in an Email/NewsReader class... I do apologize if
*** it causes problems on your system, but I suspect this is
*** a laptop you're using... so most web pages wont work for
*** you... again, it isn't especially relevant to me, as a poster
*** with a question, to address issues like this, although I am
*** sympathetic... really.

*** Or... if you dont like the facts of this matter, try to
*** follow this example Suppose you were on vacation,
*** and stopped to ask directions... and the person you
*** asked said something like - "Hey... whats with the
*** flowers on the shirt ? Definitely bad... and your
*** wife is kinda fat and dumpy too... we dont like that
*** around here... and, yea, I know how to get to where you
*** asked about, but Im not going to tell you !".
*** Sure, thats a little exaggereated... but really, it is
*** almost as irrelevant as your style critique of my perl
*** question.
*** We dont really have a problem, now do we eric ? No.
*** Please stop pretending
***
*** Did I expect a serious answer from you ? No... I
*** was hiding in the other room, hoping you didnt see it

"Eric J. Roode" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in a message...
> You expect a serious answer, when you flamed the hell out of me for trying
> to be helpful? Ha.

 
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A. Sinan Unur
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      07-23-2003
(E-Mail Removed) (stu7) wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed) om:

> *** ah... it's eric again... and same complaint as before.
> *** The problem eric is, for one, I DID NOT ADDRESS MY POST
> *** TO YOU... dont take it so personally ?


You posted on a public forum. Everyone can then reply to what he/she sees
as relevant.

> *** And... you
> *** evidently had nothing to say... not before... not now...
> *** so far as the topic of my posts... so what is it we are
> *** saying here ?


There is no topic to your post. You have a chip on your shoulder, and
your claim that you were around when Perl 1.0 was announced (in 1987)
seems dubious.

> *** At the outside, it is possible I was too eager to jump
> *** on your non-reply in particular, and you may in fact
> *** have intended no more than to point out a problem you
> *** were having reading my post... but Email is more suited
> *** for personalized problems like that, rather than adding
> *** content to the newsgroup.


It is not personal problem of Eric. He was kind enough to point out to
you that your use of sequences of characters commonly used when quoting
someone else makes it hard for readers to figure out difference between
original content and quotations in your post. Put simply, your posting
style is misleading in that regard.

> *** FYI - there is no problem with my quoting style whatsoever...
> *** it works fine on Google_ it is in fact a style I was taught
> *** to use in an Email/NewsReader class...


Please mention where this class is given so people know to avoid it.

> I do apologize if
> *** it causes problems on your system, but I suspect this is
> *** a laptop you're using... so most web pages wont work for
> *** you... again, it isn't especially relevant to me, as a poster
> *** with a question, to address issues like this, although I am
> *** sympathetic... really.


What is this supposed to mean? I have been using portables and laptops
almost exclusively since 1993, and I have no idea what you mean by "most
pages won't work" for laptop users (putting aside the fact that this
discussion is taking place in a UseNet group).

In any case, as a poster with a question, it is your responsibility to
adhere to the conventions of the forum you are posting to if you want
people to take the time and effort to respond to your questions.

> *** around here... and, yea, I know how to get to where you
> *** asked about, but Im not going to tell you !".


Rude people deserve that.

Sinan.

--
A. Sinan Unur
(E-Mail Removed)
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Spam bait: (E-Mail Removed)
 
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Gregory Toomey
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      07-23-2003
"stu7" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> *** ...hiney... this is serious. Randal - if you even are the
> *** real Randal


Randal Schwartz is a regular in this group, and you seem to have made a
spectacular debut putting your foot in your mouth.

See http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

gtoomey


 
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stu7
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      07-23-2003
*** I can accept that. Likely, it was the newest release
*** being announced_ maybe even the actual version 1.0 .
*** I only recalled first hearing about Perl on that
*** occassion, and trying it then.

Bernie Cosell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed) irnews.net>...
> (E-Mail Removed) (stu7) wrote:
>
> } I first saw Perl the day it was released... I was IRCing
> } and somebody came around announcing this new thing, Perl, so
> } I checked it out... I forget what it offered at that time.
>
> Wait a second -- IRC didn't appear until 1988 and Perl came out in 1987..
>
> /Bernie\

 
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stu7
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      07-23-2003
*** I can accept that. Likely, it was the newest release
*** being announced_ maybe even the actual version 1.0 .
*** I only recalled first hearing about Perl on that
*** occassion, and trying it then.

Bernie Cosell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed) irnews.net>...
> (E-Mail Removed) (stu7) wrote:
>
> } I first saw Perl the day it was released... I was IRCing
> } and somebody came around announcing this new thing, Perl, so
> } I checked it out... I forget what it offered at that time.
>
> Wait a second -- IRC didn't appear until 1988 and Perl came out in 1987..
>
> /Bernie\

 
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