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Re: New mandate needed

Pete A
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On 2012-03-28 23:19:01 +0100, Savageduck said:

> On 2012-03-28 14:28:41 -0700, Pete A <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>> On 2012-03-24 13:19:52 +0000, Savageduck said:

> <<< Le Snip >>>
>>> Just buy PS Elements 10 already!
>>> ...or LR4, or step up to the big one, CS5 (or soon to be released CS6).

>> If Adobe paid me a large sum of money to use it's picture editing
>> software as my primary editor I still wouldn't use it. I'm not alone in
>> finding the the way it works infuriating for several reasons. And yes,
>> I use a previous version of Photoshop occasionally when I see fit.

> ...and yet NX2 does not do all you need it to do.
>> For f..k's sake, it can't even honour the most basic camera setting:
>> white balance, which is the first step to get right before any further
>> processing becomes meaningful. This step should be set near-enough
>> right in the camera because it influences metering, scene recognition,
>> and autofocus accuracy.

> ...and that is a major reason I shoot mostly RAW only and only
> occasionally Raw + JPEG, but mostly, knowing that in camera WB settings
> in camera are critical for JPEG only. For an NEF they are irrelevant
> until processed. When the lighting is more problematic than an obvious
> 5500 daylight temperature setting, I use a WhiBal card as a WB
> reference to set the the WB in ACR.
> I have no great expectation of getting WB for JPEGs perfect without
> some sort of WB reference.
>> Of course Adobe doesn't honour a plethora Nikon camera settings because
>> they are proprietary. As I've said before, I fail to see any reason to
>> purchase a Nikon system other than for its proprietary features. If you
>> don't need or want them then why buy a Nikon system - they form a not
>> insignificant part of the purchase cost.

> So, do you believe that Canon shooters should stick to DPP, & Nikon
> shooters to NX2?

No, but I know Canon shooters that stick to DPP and Nikon shooters that
stick to NX2 simply because they prefer these editors to Adobe's
offerings. In each case, cost has absolutely nothing to do with the
decisions because it's peanuts compared to the cost of the hardware.

> Just because part of the "Nikon system" is mated to NX2, does not mean
> that NX2 is going to be an ideal solution for all. I certainly found
> NX2 not to be to my liking, and you have found it to be problematic,
> but continue to resist looking beyond it
> ...and your big reason is it is part of the "Nikon system"?

That is your stubbornly held interpretation of my situation because
I've previously refrained from stating that Photoshop is a total pile
of sh*t, regardless of price, in my experience with using it and
observing the reactions to endless images where it has been used.

In the hands of anyone other than a real pro PS does nothing more than,
firstly, fuel a desire to pay for plug-ins and upgrade to the next
version; and secondly, produce photoshopped-looking images that make
those in the art world sick to death of photography as an art form.

NX2 has its faults, but at least most of us who like using it can
produce images that don't receive the scathing criticism that PS'ed
images attract.

In case you still aren't clear about my views: my Nikon system (with or
without NX2) can produce images to my liking in a way that no other
system could possibly do for my styles of image production. Some of my
published images have undergone no more editing than cropping. Why?
Because only NX2 allows me to learn from endless camera adjustments
after the image capture. I incorporate that learning into my next
shoot. After dozens of iterations, I now rarely make a mistake
therefore my editing steps are usually trivial. Unlike some, editing
isn't my hobby.

My surreal art pushes the D700 so hard, even at base ISO, that I just
have to get it right in-camera. I never "chimp" image playback because
it cannot show me the 2.4 stops of headroom I have to play with above
JPEG clipping level.

I'm not fond of ****ing into the wind so other editors don't rock my
boat at the moment.

>> Your rant shows how locked-in you are to Apple and Adobe.

> Yup! My choice entirely, as nothing else has met my needs.
>> Sorry to have burst your Mac-worshipping bubble by using science rather
>> than anecdotal evidence.

> Sorry, no bubble burst any where near me.
>> Prior to OS-X Lion, there are many imaging related things that a Mac
>> didn't do nearly as well as it should've done during the last decade,
>> which is despicable. Windows XP had better imaging API functions and
>> default colour management for applications to use than the far more
>> recent OS-X Leopard. Get over it.

> Why? You are one of those locked into NX2 and being anal when you find
> it tough to deal with JPEGs when it comes to resizing.
>> Capture NX2 has bugs that are causing me some (manageable) hassles and
>> it may soon cause D800/D4 owners serious grief. Good - either NX2 will
>> get it improved or it will have to be replaced by something better. The
>> main problem with NX2 is that its low price hasn't enabled nearly
>> enough consumer-funded development, unlike Adobe software.

> I still have a feeling that many of your problems will be eased once
> you look beyond NX2.

As above, having looked far beyond NX2 and Adobe there is nothing yet
that takes my fancy.

>>> Stop mind ****ing!!

>> Your attempt at denigrating the London Metropolitan Police over the
>> statistically insignificant cost spent on calls to the speaking clock
>> was the biggest attempt at "mind ****ing" I've seen in anything other
>> than highly disruptive factions of the media.

> After 25 years of writing crime scene and investigative reports, I
> still hold the opinion that any police force depending on a "speaking
> clock" and the associated expense for checking time, to be pretty damn
> stupid. I was surprised to find that an organization with a Law
> enforcement reputation such as that held by LMP, had been micro-managed
> into such a dumb practice.
> Bear in mind it was the UK press which raised the issue in the first place.

We have at least ten US televisions programs per week showing how
corrupt, inept, and unbelievably stupid US cops are. I could post
dozens of URLs about it, but I simply chose not to because it insults
the exemplary dedication to duty shown by all the wonderful people who
never get mentioned.

I firmly believe that the visitors to the 2012 Olympics will be in some
of the safest hands in the world. Of course I will take offense if
anyone suggests otherwise.

>> I request that we revert to discussion rather than dictation.

> I thought that was what we were engaged in, but I seem to have touched
> a nerve somewhere along the way. If so I apologize.

Communication has no purpose unless each side is open enough to allow
raw nerves to be touched sometimes. Apologies to you if my terse
comments and strong opinions have caused offense.

Reply With Quote
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Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}> wrote:
>PeteA resurrected a subject which should have died some time (excuse
>the pun) ago. Others had far more to say on the subject, and I would
>hardly call my contribution "relentless bullying".

Bullies never do, do they.

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