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Re: Page does not validate

 
 
Jukka K. Korpela
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      02-22-2012
2012-02-22 0:11, Alfred Molon wrote:

> (the site search is at http://www.molon.de/suche/ )
>
> The first error comes from the Google javascript:
>
> Line 31, Column 38: there is no attribute "ASYNC"


It's not in HTML 4.01, which the page purports to comply with. It's
proposed in HTML5 and has support in most browsers except IE, see
http://caniuse.com/#cats=HTML5
Lack of support is just an efficiency issue, so the attribute is safe to
use _if_ the external script has been designed to be suitable for
asynchronous treatment. We may have just take Google's word on it.

So just leave it there. (Switching to the HTML5 doctype is hardly
useful; you'd get about 144 "error messages", mostly about presentation
markup that is very well supported by browsers but frowned upon by the
HTML5 working group.)

> And I guess there is nothing I can do here.


There's nothing you need to do with this.

> But the other two errors probably can be corrected. How?


There's nothing you need to do with them either. They are caused by the
formal rules of HTML 4.01 Strict. The rules require that all content in
a <form> element be wrapped in block-level containers. There is no good
reason to this, though the idea dates back to the age of HTML 2.0. You
can use a <div> wrapper (the only block-level container with no side
effects), <form ...><div><select ...>...</select></div></form>, but it
serves no useful purpose (beyond silencing the validator).

What you perhaps _should_ do something about is that your use of
JavaScript is not unobtrusive. Check out what happens if you have
disabled JavaScript. The select menu sits there, but if you make any
selection there, it has no effect. It should be either backed up with
server-side processing*) or generated with JavaScript code. In the
latter case, the validator issue would disappear, as validators do not
check JavaScript-generated code.

*) This requires a submit button, but you can hide it when JavaScript is
enabled, by enclosing it within a <noscript> element.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
 
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Jonathan N. Little
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      02-22-2012
Alfred Molon wrote:
> In article<ji21jt$6u8$(E-Mail Removed)>, Jukka K. Korpela says...
>> What you perhaps _should_ do something about is that your use of
>> JavaScript is not unobtrusive. Check out what happens if you have
>> disabled JavaScript. The select menu sits there, but if you make any
>> selection there, it has no effect. It should be either backed up with
>> server-side processing*) or generated with JavaScript code. In the
>> latter case, the validator issue would disappear, as validators do not
>> check JavaScript-generated code.
>>
>> *) This requires a submit button, but you can hide it when JavaScript is
>> enabled, by enclosing it within a<noscript> element.

>
> You mean something like this?
>
> <noscript>
> <input ...>
> </noscript>
>
> By the way, what % of people have Javascript disabled? Without
> Javascript many websites can't be browsed nowadays.


Too many can't be browsed with JavaScript enabled or disabled

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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Gene Wirchenko
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      02-22-2012
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 08:26:13 +0100, Alfred Molon
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

[snip]

>By the way, what % of people have Javascript disabled? Without
>Javascript many websites can't be browsed nowadays.


And many can be. Due to security concerns, I have JavaScript
disabled. NoScript is such a nice Firefox add-on.

I have run across too many sites that require JavaScript be
enabled just to handle links. I almost always bail on them.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
 
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TK
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      02-22-2012
On 2/22/2012 11:15 AM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 08:26:13 +0100, Alfred Molon
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> By the way, what % of people have Javascript disabled? Without
>> Javascript many websites can't be browsed nowadays.

>
> And many can be. Due to security concerns, I have JavaScript
> disabled. NoScript is such a nice Firefox add-on.
>
> I have run across too many sites that require JavaScript be
> enabled just to handle links. I almost always bail on them.


The ones with JavaScript that really annoy me are the ones that draw out
completely, check to see if it is enabled, and flip up a nearly blank
page saying you need it enabled.


--
TK ~ aka Terry Kimpling
http://wejuggle2.com/
As a percentage, more turkeys can fly than people can do a backflip.
 
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Jukka K. Korpela
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      02-22-2012
2012-02-22 19:41, TK wrote:

> The ones with JavaScript that really annoy me are the ones that draw out
> completely, check to see if it is enabled, and flip up a nearly blank
> page saying you need it enabled.


As a positive exception, StackOverflow.com (the programmers' paradise)
just says, in a header at the very top,
"Stack Overflow works best with JavaScript enabled".
It doesn't really say which experiences and features are missed, though.

The paradoxical thing is that although the header is rather visible, on
a red background, I have missed it once or twice. Sometimes unobtrusive
JavaScript is _too_ unobtrusive.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
 
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Jukka K. Korpela
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      02-22-2012
2012-02-22 20:11, Alfred Molon wrote:

> Just checked. It seems that 99% of people have Javascript enabled. Only
> 1% of people disable Javascript.


It has been proved scientifically that 97.25% of all percentages have
just been made up, and the remaining 3.75% have been miscalculated.

1% of people is, by the way, about 68,405,070 human beings (and growing).

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
 
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Gene Wirchenko
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      02-22-2012
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 19:11:03 +0100, Alfred Molon
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Gene Wirchenko
>says...
>
>> And many can be. Due to security concerns, I have JavaScript
>> disabled. NoScript is such a nice Firefox add-on.
>>
>> I have run across too many sites that require JavaScript be
>> enabled just to handle links. I almost always bail on them.

>
>Just checked. It seems that 99% of people have Javascript enabled. Only
>1% of people disable Javascript.


How would you know?

Given all of the security issues, I prefer to stay in the 1% (or
whatever it is) locking the door.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
 
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Beauregard T. Shagnasty
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      02-22-2012
Alfred Molon wrote:

> Gene Wirchenko says...
>> And many can be. Due to security concerns, I have JavaScript
>> disabled. NoScript is such a nice Firefox add-on.
>>
>> I have run across too many sites that require JavaScript be
>> enabled just to handle links. I almost always bail on them.


AOL!

> Just checked. It seems that 99% of people have Javascript enabled. Only
> 1% of people disable Javascript.


Your site may be at 1%. I'd be willing to hazard a guess that at sites
like amazon.com and walmart.com the figure is 0% -- because you can't
shop at all without it.

My sites hover around the 4-5% mark. And JavaScript isn't required to do
anything!

--
-bts
-This space for rent, but the price is high
 
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