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the Olson Timezone Database

 
 
Jeff Higgins
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      02-15-2012
On 02/15/2012 12:31 PM, RedGrittyBrick wrote:
> On 15/02/2012 13:45, David Lamb wrote:
>> On 15/02/2012 7:53 AM, Eric Sosman wrote:
>>> On 2/14/2012 11:41 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:01:14 -0500, Eric Sosman
>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
>>>> someone who said :
>>>>> I hope you will post a retraction here, and remove the "Burn
>>>>> their houses down" message from your site.
>>>>
>>>> What I said is already far milder than what I think. This sort of
>>>> behaviour in inexcusable, and in the service of ASTROLOGY!!! splutter!
>>>
>>> You promote vandalism. That's all I need to know.

>>
>> I can't condone vandalism either, but if Roedy had said "let's use
>> whatever legal means we can find to fight back" I'd have agreed
>> enthusiastically. Creating/joining an Olson Database Legal Defence Fund
>> might make sense.
>>

>
> Haven't IANA taken over?
>
> http://www.iana.org/time-zones
>

Browsing a tz mailing list archive, available here:
<https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/tz>,
I see no calls for vigilantism. Shame, Roedy.

I was happy to be made aware of the issue and
to get a glimpse of the complexities involved.
<http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-October/008156.html>

 
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David Lamb
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      02-15-2012
On 15/02/2012 12:35 PM, RedGrittyBrick wrote:
> http://www.icann.org/en/news/release...14oct11-en.pdf
> October 14, 2011
> For Immediate Release
> ICANN to Manage Time Zone Database


Yay! No mention of the astrologers, I see. In any case it would be
harder to win a fight against ICANN than against a private individual.
 
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Jeff Higgins
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      02-15-2012
On 02/15/2012 01:46 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> On 02/15/2012 12:31 PM, RedGrittyBrick wrote:
>> On 15/02/2012 13:45, David Lamb wrote:
>>> On 15/02/2012 7:53 AM, Eric Sosman wrote:
>>>> On 2/14/2012 11:41 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:01:14 -0500, Eric Sosman
>>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
>>>>> someone who said :
>>>>>> I hope you will post a retraction here, and remove the "Burn
>>>>>> their houses down" message from your site.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I said is already far milder than what I think. This sort of
>>>>> behaviour in inexcusable, and in the service of ASTROLOGY!!! splutter!
>>>>
>>>> You promote vandalism. That's all I need to know.
>>>
>>> I can't condone vandalism either, but if Roedy had said "let's use
>>> whatever legal means we can find to fight back" I'd have agreed
>>> enthusiastically. Creating/joining an Olson Database Legal Defence Fund
>>> might make sense.


<https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/01/just-facts-lawsuit-against-timezone-database-deserves-sanctions>

>>>

>>
>> Haven't IANA taken over?
>>
>> http://www.iana.org/time-zones
>>

> Browsing a tz mailing list archive, available here:
> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/tz>,
> I see no calls for vigilantism. Shame, Roedy.
>
> I was happy to be made aware of the issue and
> to get a glimpse of the complexities involved.
> <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-October/008156.html>
>

Actually, the whole thread was interesting.
<http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-October/thread.html#8156>

 
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Jeff Higgins
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      02-15-2012
On 02/15/2012 12:35 PM, RedGrittyBrick wrote:

>>
>> Haven't IANA taken over?
>>
>> http://www.iana.org/time-zones
>>

>
>
> http://www.icann.org/en/news/release...14oct11-en.pdf
>

And this:
Procedures for Maintaining the Timezone Database
draft-lear-iana-timezone-database-05
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lear-iana-timezone-database>
 
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Arne Vajh°j
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      02-16-2012
On 2/14/2012 9:28 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> The Olson timezone database is no more. An astrology company,
> Astrolabe, sued him, and he did not have the resources to fight back.
>
> So for now, nobody is keeping track of timezone changes. Java uses
> that database.
>
> A hope Anonymous soon gets round to putting these unprintables out of
> business.


That is hoping a criminal group commits a crime against
a legal business.

Very close to encouraging such an act and thereby potentially
become liable if it actually happened.

Arne

 
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Arne Vajh°j
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      02-16-2012
On 2/14/2012 11:41 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:01:14 -0500, Eric Sosman
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
> someone who said :
>> I hope you will post a retraction here, and remove the "Burn
>> their houses down" message from your site.

>
> What I said is already far milder than what I think. This sort of
> behaviour in inexcusable, and in the service of ASTROLOGY!!! splutter!


Inexcusable behavior it not a very good reason to violate the law.

Arne


 
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Arne Vajh°j
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      02-16-2012
On 2/15/2012 11:45 AM, markspace wrote:
> On 2/14/2012 6:28 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>> The Olson timezone database is no more. An astrology company,
>> Astrolabe, sued him, and he did not have the resources to fight back.
>>
>> So for now, nobody is keeping track of timezone changes. Java uses
>> that database.
>>
>> A hope Anonymous soon gets round to putting these unprintables out of
>> business.
>>
>> see http://mindprod

>
>
> I'd rather not see your mindprod site, as I prefer reliable sources.
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tz_database#2011_lawsuit>
>
> "2011 Lawsuit
>
> On September 30, 2011, a lawsuit, Astrolabe, Inc. v. Olson et
> al.,[11][12] was filed concerning copyright in the database. As a
> result, on October 6, 2011, the database's maintenance (mailing list)
> and dissemination (FTP site) operations were shut down.[13] The case
> revolves around the use by the database maintainers of the atlases The
> American Atlas by Thomas G. Shanks and The International Atlas by Thomas
> G. Shanks and Rique Pottenger. It specifically complains of unauthorised
> reproduction of the atlases' data in the timezone mailing list archive
> and in some auxiliary link collections maintained with the database, but
> doesn't actually point at the database itself. The complaint relates
> only to the compilation of historical timezone data, and does not cover
> current tzdata world timezone tables.[12][14][15] The tz database
> clearly references its sources, including the atlas, in comments,
> allowing the extent of use of the data to be evaluated.[16][17]
> [edit] Move to ICANN
>
> ICANN took responsibility for the maintenance of the database on October
> 14, 2011.[18] The full database (including allegedly-infringing
> sections) and a description of current and future plans for its
> maintenance are available online from IANA.[19]"
>
>
> So the upshot is that it got moved to IANA, and the lawsuit really just
> complains about some data in the mailing list and links to other sites.
> The database itself is fine. Do some research next time before going off
> half-cocked.


And worse - Roedy has not corrected his page yet - a half day
after being told by several people that the information is
incorrect.

Arne




 
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Lew
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-16-2012
On Wednesday, February 15, 2012 5:19:19 PM UTC-8, Arne Vajh°j wrote:
> On 2/14/2012 9:28 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> > The Olson timezone database is no more. An astrology company,
> > Astrolabe, sued him, and he did not have the resources to fight back.
> >
> > So for now, nobody is keeping track of timezone changes. Java uses
> > that database.
> >
> > A hope Anonymous soon gets round to putting these unprintables out of
> > business.

>
> That is hoping a criminal group commits a crime against
> a legal business.
>
> Very close to encouraging such an act and thereby potentially
> become liable if it actually happened.


Not likely. Canada has a notion of the right to free speech, and it would be a
hard sell to produce a preponderance of evidence that such an obviously
emotional and hypothetical comment as this in any way adds to or incites
Anonymous's stupid and hypocritical destructive actions. The worst you can
legitimately accuse Roedy of is a boneheaded remark, not an actionable one.

--
Lew
 
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Eric Sosman
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      02-16-2012
On 2/15/2012 8:23 PM, Arne Vajh°j wrote:
> On 2/15/2012 11:45 AM, markspace wrote:
>> On 2/14/2012 6:28 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>>> The Olson timezone database is no more. An astrology company,
>>> Astrolabe, sued him, and he did not have the resources to fight back.
>>>
>>> So for now, nobody is keeping track of timezone changes. Java uses
>>> that database.
>>>
>>> A hope Anonymous soon gets round to putting these unprintables out of
>>> business.
>>>
>>> see http://mindprod

>>
>>
>> I'd rather not see your mindprod site, as I prefer reliable sources.
>>
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tz_database#2011_lawsuit>
>>
>> "2011 Lawsuit
>>
>> On September 30, 2011, a lawsuit, Astrolabe, Inc. v. Olson et
>> al.,[11][12] was filed concerning copyright in the database. As a
>> result, on October 6, 2011, the database's maintenance (mailing list)
>> and dissemination (FTP site) operations were shut down.[13] The case
>> revolves around the use by the database maintainers of the atlases The
>> American Atlas by Thomas G. Shanks and The International Atlas by Thomas
>> G. Shanks and Rique Pottenger. It specifically complains of unauthorised
>> reproduction of the atlases' data in the timezone mailing list archive
>> and in some auxiliary link collections maintained with the database, but
>> doesn't actually point at the database itself. The complaint relates
>> only to the compilation of historical timezone data, and does not cover
>> current tzdata world timezone tables.[12][14][15] The tz database
>> clearly references its sources, including the atlas, in comments,
>> allowing the extent of use of the data to be evaluated.[16][17]
>> [edit] Move to ICANN
>>
>> ICANN took responsibility for the maintenance of the database on October
>> 14, 2011.[18] The full database (including allegedly-infringing
>> sections) and a description of current and future plans for its
>> maintenance are available online from IANA.[19]"
>>
>>
>> So the upshot is that it got moved to IANA, and the lawsuit really just
>> complains about some data in the mailing list and links to other sites.
>> The database itself is fine. Do some research next time before going off
>> half-cocked.

>
> And worse - Roedy has not corrected his page yet - a half day
> after being told by several people that the information is
> incorrect.


He's too busy lighting torches and sharpening the tines of
pitchforks.

An irony: He calls for vandalizing somebody who attempts to assert
intellectual property rights. At the same time, his very own web site
plasters "copyright" symbols *on other peoples' code and posts*. Yes,
our own InformationWantsToBeFree Green claims copyright on some of *my*
contributions -- and I bet if you look a little, you'll find that he
claims to own some of yours, too.

--
Eric Sosman
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)d
 
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Lew
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      02-16-2012
Gordon Levi wrote:
> Lew wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:28:55 PM UTC-8, Roedy Green wrote:
> >> The Olson timezone database is no more. An astrology company,
> >> Astrolabe, sued him, and he did not have the resources to fight back.
> >>
> >> So for now, nobody is keeping track of timezone changes. Java uses
> >> that database.
> >>
> >> A hope Anonymous soon gets round to putting these unprintables out of
> >> business.

> >
> >Oh, so you support those criminal schmucks? Anonymous are tools. Idiots.
> >Vandals. Scum. Script kiddies. F**k Anonymous.

>
> The first rule of computer security which you have just broken is to
> avoid setting yourself up as a target. You probably already know the
> HBGary story <http://tinyurl.com/4k6gzr9> and you must agree that the
> vandalism was not carried out by "script kiddies".


Are you threatening me?

I thought Anonymous were in *favor* of free speech. That's their line, anyway,
do schmuckly things in the name of individual rights, isn't it? Am I a bank? A
government? A spy agency? No, I'm just someone who's not afraid to point out
that Anonymous are evil, stupid bastards. And script kiddies. Assholes. They
should change their name to "AA" - "Assholes Anonymous".

And I'm not afraid of you, either.

--
Lew
 
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