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Re: Kodak to stop making digital cameras

 
 
Walter Banks
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      02-14-2012


Trevor wrote:

> "tony cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news(E-Mail Removed)...
> >>>Providing useful products and services at reasonable prices.
> >>
> >>You have to do that to stay in business.

> >
> > That's somewhat debatable. All a company has to do is convince some
> > of the public that the product is useful or desirable and offered at a
> > reasonable price.

>
> "Reasonable price" has nothing to do with it! The biggest profits are made
> by selling products at *unreasonable* prices to suckers. Some companies can
> do that for decades. Others only a short time.


That model is quite unstable. One of the stable high profit models
is a large up front cost to get into a market then sell a product very close
to the price od admission for a competitor, with the constant threat
to drop the price if a competitor enters the market.

That model can run for decades even hundreds of years. Railways for
example. Steel mills are another example.

w..


 
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nospam
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      02-14-2012
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony cooper
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >> You wouldn't be able, for example, to buy a bar of soap for 10 cents
> >> if wasn't for advertising. Without the market for the brand of soap
> >> created by advertising, and volume sales, a bar of soap would cost
> >> several dollars.

> >
> >Some products don't need advertising. My father used to say "If your
> >product is good, you don't need to advertise." I think he realized that
> >was a bit nave, but it went to the notion that really good products
> >sold themselves by reputation, word-of-mouth, etc.

>
> That's fine for local products. A restaurant, for example, can be
> very successful without spending a dime for advertising. Likewise a
> dry cleaners or some types of local service providers. Products that
> are nationally distributed, though, are not going to do well without
> advertising.


not necessarily. many local restaurants need advertising to get started
and many national products need nothing. word gets around quickly these
days.
 
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Walter Banks
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      02-14-2012


Trevor wrote:

> History shows many of them are. But capitalist consumerism is about creating
> a market and supplying that market at the biggest possible profit you can
> manage. Some companies manage very big profits indeed, and still have their
> customers coming back for more. In that case both would appear to be happy,
> and what I think is irrelevant to either of them.
>


Do you have examples where customers are not regulatory required to
patronize a provider?

There are two models that are often applied. Some companies decide that a
specific price is what the market will bear and they optimize how little they need
to provide to sell into a market. The alternative is to maximize value the customer
will get for a competitive price. The long term profit is surprisingly similar the
later company lasts longer.

w..



 
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nospam
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      02-14-2012
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Mxsmanic
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people
> > some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.

>
> Either of the first two will keep you in business.


not for long.

> > Sales didn't bring in enough revenue to support the costs.

>
> Management most likely concentrated on cutting costs rather than increasing
> revenue, which is always the (fatal) path of bad managers trying to increase
> profits.


wrong.
 
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tony cooper
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      02-14-2012
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:31:16 -0500, nospam <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony cooper
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> >> You wouldn't be able, for example, to buy a bar of soap for 10 cents
>> >> if wasn't for advertising. Without the market for the brand of soap
>> >> created by advertising, and volume sales, a bar of soap would cost
>> >> several dollars.
>> >
>> >Some products don't need advertising. My father used to say "If your
>> >product is good, you don't need to advertise." I think he realized that
>> >was a bit nave, but it went to the notion that really good products
>> >sold themselves by reputation, word-of-mouth, etc.

>>
>> That's fine for local products. A restaurant, for example, can be
>> very successful without spending a dime for advertising. Likewise a
>> dry cleaners or some types of local service providers. Products that
>> are nationally distributed, though, are not going to do well without
>> advertising.

>
>not necessarily. many local restaurants need advertising to get started


What is it that you find difficult to understand about "can be"? Do
you find this synonymous with "will be"?


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Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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tony cooper
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      02-14-2012
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:14:17 +0100, Mxsmanic <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Alan Browne writes:
>
>> Some products don't need advertising. My father used to say "If your
>> product is good, you don't need to advertise." I think he realized that
>> was a bit nave, but it went to the notion that really good products
>> sold themselves by reputation, word-of-mouth, etc.

>
>He was right. Did you buy your last washing machine or roll of paper towels
>based on advertising?


Most people do.

Go down aisle in the store where the paper towels are and you will see
nationally advertised brands and also a "store brand". The store
brand will be priced lower than the nationally advertised brands, but
the nationally advertised brands will out-sell the store brand. The
store brand will be a nationally advertised national brand private
labeled for the store, but the branded product will outsell the
private labeled product.

You won't buy a brand of paper towels because you saw an ad for paper
towels, but you will probably pick out a brand because you have been
exposed to that brand by ads over time. Mentally, you've become
convinced that that brand is going to be a product you will like.

Think about paper towels and name the first brand that comes to mind.
If you are in the US, that name will probably be "Bounty" (The better
picker-upper). It comes to mind because of ads, and that's an edge
for Bounty when it comes to you choosing a paper towel.

Washing machine customers fall in two basic categories: people buying
a washing machine because they don't have one or because their old one
no longer works, and people buying a washing machine because their
present machine is not performing and they think it is about to go.

What do these people do? They scan the ads to see what stores are
having sales or what brands are on sale. The makers of the washing
machine furnish artwork and co-op advertising money to be in these
ads.

You may be an exception and go straight to some local appliance store,
or straight to Sears and their Kenmore brand, but most people are
going to first look at the ads.

There are some stores that carry and feature their own brand of
appliances. You won't see ads for that brand, but you will see ads
for that store. Whether they're advertising the features and benefits
of a washing machine brand, or advertising the features and benefits
of shopping at that chain of stores, they're advertising.

>A huge amount of advertising is simply ignored. Can you remember the last five
>advertisements you saw?


Most people can't, but advertisers don't rely on your ability to
recall their ads. They want to embed the brand in your mind. That's
why the same ad is repeated over and over.

What celebrity appears in a camera ad? If you are in the US, you know
you know and that you know what the brand is. You may not pay
attention to the ad, but the brand and the message has been embedded
in your mind.

(Personally, I find the celebrity an annoying prat, but I use the
brand if not the part of the product line he features.)



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Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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nospam
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      02-14-2012
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony cooper
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >> Some products don't need advertising. My father used to say "If your
> >> product is good, you don't need to advertise." I think he realized that
> >> was a bit nave, but it went to the notion that really good products
> >> sold themselves by reputation, word-of-mouth, etc.

> >
> >He was right. Did you buy your last washing machine or roll of paper towels
> >based on advertising?

>
> Most people do.


no, most people buy whatever is on sale that week.

> Go down aisle in the store where the paper towels are and you will see
> nationally advertised brands and also a "store brand". The store
> brand will be priced lower than the nationally advertised brands, but
> the nationally advertised brands will out-sell the store brand. The
> store brand will be a nationally advertised national brand private
> labeled for the store, but the branded product will outsell the
> private labeled product.


you don't know how well any of the brands sell.
 
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tony cooper
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      02-14-2012
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:41:27 -0500, nospam <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony cooper
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> >> Some products don't need advertising. My father used to say "If your
>> >> product is good, you don't need to advertise." I think he realized that
>> >> was a bit nave, but it went to the notion that really good products
>> >> sold themselves by reputation, word-of-mouth, etc.
>> >
>> >He was right. Did you buy your last washing machine or roll of paper towels
>> >based on advertising?

>>
>> Most people do.

>
>no, most people buy whatever is on sale that week.


And how do they know what is on sale? By reading the advertisements.


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Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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nospam
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      02-14-2012
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony cooper
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> And how do they know what is on sale? By reading the advertisements.


by walking down the aisle.
 
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tony cooper
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      02-14-2012
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:07:15 -0500, nospam <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony cooper
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> And how do they know what is on sale? By reading the advertisements.

>
>by walking down the aisle.


Very few washing machines are sold on airplanes.

The advertisement tells you which store to go to so you can walk down
that store's aisle.


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Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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