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Ruby and Python, questions (not a flamewar!)

 
 
Damian Terentyev
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-22-2007
Good day!
First, let me apologise for some Japanese nationalism and Ruby=20
fanaticism, and do not be offended if I say something inappropriate.

On Jan 20, 2007, at 05:21, Tom Pollard wrote:
>
> Well, Ruby was written by a /person/, not a culture, and it's largely=20=


> a tasteful amalgam of good ideas introduced in those old "Western"=20
> languages. I'd be interested to hear what you (or anyone else) thinks=20=


> is distinctively non-Western about Ruby, as opposed to C or Lisp or=20
> Smalltalk.


It is worth noting that a person who created Ruby have originated from=20=

a distinct (Japanese) culture. And one of the key characteristics of=20
Japanese culture is its openness for adoption of other cultures. Many=20
great pieces of Japanese culture were taken from others and then=20
transformed by adding subtle differences, thus making them (IMHO)=20
perfect. Think about Zen Buddhism (a philosophy that came from China),=20=

or quality control (curiously, an American idea that originally didn't=20=

get support in the US and had to be adopted later from Japanese) =E2=80=94=
the=20
trend is obvious.
And I don't think it would be an exaggeration to see something similar=20=

in Ruby design. All Ruby's features were widely known and used in a=20
whole bunch of high-level languages, but it took a Japanese to unite=20
them together in such subtly unique way that was Ruby, and the result=20
was a (IMHO) perfect language.
Python has similar capabilities (and is even a little more advanced if=20=

we speak about Unicode support, and more mature if we speak about many=20=

third-party libraries available), but it doesn't make programming fun=20
as Ruby claims, and in fact, does. It is those small subtleties that=20
make this possible. The ability to write [1,2,3].length and=20
[1,2,3].size as it pleases you, those funny blocks instead of dull=20
for-loops or clumsy lambdas, optional use of parentheses =E2=80=94=C2=A0al=
l this=20
makes writing programs more natural and pleasant.

1. print is a statement in Python 2 and I can imagine no programmer who=20=

deliberately chooses to write print("boo") instead of just print "boo".=20=

And in Python 3 it's going to become a function so that only the former=20=

syntax will be correct. They say, to make it more readable. I don't=20
think lots of parentheses and brackets improve readability.
2. indentation eliminates multiple "end" clauses but makes pure python=20=

virtually unacceptable for use as a templating language. And again, I'm=20=

not sure that

if boo:
doo()

is more readable than simple "doo if boo"
3. can't understand why only in recent 2.5 Python became to agree with=20=

both "except" and "finally" clauses in exception handling.

These are the examples of constraints that Python puts on programmer's=20=

mind. They are not severe, but a creative mind searching for a solution=20=

doesn't want any limits at all! Ruby really gets out of your way when=20
you create programs. And maybe it is that freedom that makes=20
programming Ruby fun. And that's why there couldn't exist such thing as=20=

Python on Rails. Ruby attracts programmers that want to freely=20
experience their thoughts and have fun =E2=80=94 and this is why it =
yields such=20
original and convenient products.

An answer to the OP's questions =E2=80=94 why Ruby is not as wide-spread =
as=20
Python =E2=80=94 lies in two domains:

1. Aforementioned language barrier and Ruby's youn age in general.

2. Ruby's flexible syntax gives too much freedom =E2=80=94 and this may =
drive=20
away some less creative programmers that need something solid under=20
their feet. When you first com to Ruby you may become overwhelmed with=20=

all that freedom and panic

Thanks for your attention.

Your sincerely,
Damian/Three-eyed Fish=


 
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Paddy3118
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-23-2007

Drew Olson wrote:

> I've been using ruby for the past 6 months and I must say I am extremely
> impressed. I find it a joy to write and I even find myself making
> excuses to throw together simple scripts at work. I'm also teaching
> myself rails and enjoying the experience as well.
>
> At the same time, I'm looking at Python because I think it's also an
> important language to know/understand today. However, the more I look at
> Python the more I am convinced that ruby is just better. Syntax-wise,
> language vision, design philosophy, I like them all from the ruby side
> better.
>
> So, I am kind of confused as to why Python is so mainstream and ruby
> still seems so fringe. Apps like YouTube are written in Python and
> powerful organizations like NASA, Google, etc. are using Python as well.
> So basically, here are my questions:
>

Hi Drew,
Maybe your confusion on Python''s status is linked to your belief that
because Ruby is 'better' for you then it must be better than Python for
everyone?

- Paddy - A Pythonista who learned Python before Ruby, has seen no
compelling reason to switch, and would be more interested in getting
Python/Perl/Ruby/TCL/C#/Java to more seamlessly interoperate. Easy
access to modules written in any script, Yea!

 
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