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Bruce Eckel and Ruby

 
 
Hal Fulton
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      12-20-2005
<sigh>

I really don't understand the point of this. If you like Python, use it.
If you like Ruby, use it. I am in the latter category.

In fact, I am not opposed to learning both. At the moment I haven't time,
but later maybe I will. It's a language, not a religion.

His use of "hyperenthusiast" is interesting. Does it apply only to non-Python
people?

As for the "Ruby has better OO" argument -- Pythonists call it FUD, but it
appears simple common sense (from what Python I've seen). But I think a
large part of that is that Ruby and Python are evolutionarily different.
I've heard -- this may be wrong -- that Python's OO descends from Modula-3
or some such. I can't comment. I do know that it seems less OO than Ruby
to me (or Java, C++, Object Pascal).

As for significant whitespace -- surely it's a matter of opinion whether
this is the "right" way or not. One can make arguments in both directions.
I was initially drawn to the idea, but after playing with it, I found it
had its drawbacks.

Most (human) languages are written left to right. Are Arabic and Hebrew
"wrong" because they aren't?

Give it a rest, people.


Hal



 
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Ryan Leavengood
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      12-20-2005
On 12/20/05, Hal Fulton <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> <sigh>
>
> I really don't understand the point of this. If you like Python, use it.
> If you like Ruby, use it. I am in the latter category.
>
> In fact, I am not opposed to learning both. At the moment I haven't time,
> but later maybe I will. It's a language, not a religion.


I agree with you completely.

> His use of "hyperenthusiast" is interesting. Does it apply only to non-Py=

thon
> people?


I think the problem he has (like many other Pythonistas, Javans,
Perlists, etc.) is that Ruby is getting a lot of exposure now thanks
to Rails, and he feels his livelihood might be threatened by what he
perceives as simply a fad. I think he is calling all the people who
tend to jump from fad to fad in the computing world as
hyperenthusiasts, and he may have a point. I don't think he meant that
all Ruby or Rails people were these flaky hyperenthusiasts.

Maybe he is right and Rails is just a fad, but based on how people are
reacting to it, I'm not so sure. Surely all the Railists are not just
under the spell of DHH's skilled marketing, eh? After all the best
marketing is word of mouth.

Ryan


 
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James Britt
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      12-20-2005
Hal Fulton wrote:
> <sigh>

<muchGoodStuffElided/>

>
> Give it a rest, people.
>


Amen.

Besides, we should be ranting about how Ruby is better than Lisp.





James

--

http://www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
http://www.artima.com/rubycs/ - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
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http://www.30secondrule.com - Building Better Tools


 
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Jamey Cribbs
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      12-20-2005
James Britt wrote:

>
> Besides, we should be ranting about how Ruby is better than Lisp.
>
>


Ruby kicks Cobol's ass!

Jamey

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Alan Garrison
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      12-20-2005
Jamey Cribbs wrote:

> James Britt wrote:
>
>>
>> Besides, we should be ranting about how Ruby is better than Lisp.
>>
>>

>
>
> Ruby kicks Cobol's ass!
>


But Ruby won't be truly complete until you can do something like this:

----------------------------------
require 'inline'

class Inline::Bf < Inline::BrainF_ck # [1]
def initialize(mod)
super(mod)
end

def import(header)
@src << "#import #{header}"
end
end

class MyClass
inline(:Bf) do |builder|

builder.bf %q{
>+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.[-]>++++++++[<++++>-]

<.#>+++++++++++[<+++++>-]<.>++++++++[<+++>-]<.+++.------.--------.[-]>++++++++[
<++++>-]<+.[-]++++++++++.
}
end
end

MyClass.new.test
--------------------------------


[1] http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/


Although I'd bet I'm not the first to think of this


--
Alan Garrison
Cronosys, LLC <http://www.cronosys.com>
Phone: 216-221-4600 ext 308




 
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James Edward Gray II
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      12-20-2005
On Dec 20, 2005, at 4:12 PM, Timothy Hunter wrote:

> This has little (if anything) to do with which-language-is-better,
> and everything to do with earning a living. Mr. Eckel makes a good
> living teaching Java and writing about Java and consulting about
> Java and the adoption of anything other than Java hurts his income.


I doubt there are very many professional programmers relying on a
single language to put food on the table. I don't think Bruce is an
exception here. He writes books about C++ in addition to Java, for
example.

I read the article and it sounded to me like it favored both Python
and C# over Java.

James Edward Gray II



 
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Jeff Wood
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      12-20-2005
------=_Part_7817_8364424.1135117879149
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

Come on folks ...

Python is "different" ... it implements objects, has a number of nice
reflection things, dynamic binding, and more ...

It's got it's own syntax ... and that hasn't changed ... they do things
their way ( again "different" ).

... beyond that, the real differences were already listed off in a VERY goo=
d
post ...

To me ( and yes I've used both and built real tools with both ) ... the mai=
n
difference that works the way I think is that ruby has blocks ...

Python has lambdas, but they don't compare... that to me is the big
difference... everything else is sugar/fluff.

If you think the python way , then everything is happy in Python ville.

If you think the ruby way, then rubyopolis is your happy place...

That's all the end ... at least they are BOTH taking away from the Perl
community & the other static/compiled languages out there ...

... I respect them for being who they are and building a tool that has made
an impact on the community ( RedHat's install tool, OpenOffice using it as =
a
macro language, etc. )....

... Ruby will eventually win it's larger battles too. The reason we haven'=
t
is because we are all happy enough with our choice to use Ruby that we are
just getting our work done, not fighting wars.

Anyways, just my $0.02.

j.

--
"Remember. Understand. Believe. Yield! -> http://ruby-lang.org"

Jeff Wood

------=_Part_7817_8364424.1135117879149--


 
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Jim Weirich
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      12-20-2005
Timothy Hunter wrote:
> Mr. Eckel makes a good living teaching Java and writing about Java and
> consulting about Java and the adoption of anything other than Java hurts
> his income.


Mr. Eckel has written books and articles on C++, Java and Python. In
fact, from what I can tell, he rather prefers Python over Java. So I
don't think his livelyhood is in any danger if Java suddenly becomes
unpopular.

--
-- Jim Weirich

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.


 
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Austin Ziegler
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      12-20-2005
On 20/12/05, Hal Fulton <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> <sigh>
>
> I really don't understand the point of this. If you like Python, use it.
> If you like Ruby, use it. I am in the latter category.


http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/...sm_and_happi.=
html

-austin
--
Austin Ziegler * http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)
* Alternate: (E-Mail Removed)


 
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Nikolai Weibull
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      12-20-2005
Hal Fulton wrote:

> Most (human) languages are written left to right. Are Arabic and
> Hebrew "wrong" because they aren't?


Yes?

nikolai (who wants to debate the merits of top-to-bottom writing
as well)

--
Nikolai Weibull: now available free of charge at http://bitwi.se/!
Born in Chicago, IL USA; currently residing in Gothenburg, Sweden.
main(){printf(&linux["\021%six\012\0"],(linux)["have"]+"fun"-97);}


 
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