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To Fly or not to fly? Should I move from Mozilla 1.5 to T-bird andF-bird?

 
 
Daniel Steinberg
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      11-04-2003
Hi eveyone,
I've been a long time Mozilla/Netscape user (since about Netscape 2 or 3
and Mozilla 0.9.5). I love having my email and browser integrated, and
love the Mozilla, I honestly believe it's been the best browser/email
program since day 1 of Netscape. Although I havent contributed any code
to Mozilla yet (I have looked at it and got lost after about 5 lines,
eventhough I'm at college studying computer and electronics technology
and have advanced programming courses), I still very much know whats
going on with Mozilla. But I'm totally confused over the reasoning for
Thunderbird and Firebird? Whats the point when you already have Mozilla?
I dont see the point of having two separate programs for your browser
and email, although it would be great if the browser or email portion of
the program would remain open if the other crashed, but other than that
i think they should be integrated.
If I am wrong should I switch? what would be the advantages and
disadvantages?

Thanks,
Daniel Steinberg
Student in 3rd year Computer Engineering Technology program at Seneca
College in Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 
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Daniel Steinberg
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      11-04-2003
Sorry for the dual post, I thought I clicked cancel the first time I
sent it.

Daniel Steinberg

 
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dantu
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      11-04-2003
Daniel Steinberg wrote:

> Hi eveyone,
> I've been a long time Mozilla/Netscape user (since about Netscape 2 or
> 3 and Mozilla 0.9.5). I love having my email and browser integrated,
> and love the Mozilla, I honestly believe it's been the best
> browser/email program since day 1 of Netscape. Although I havent
> contributed any code to Mozilla yet (I have looked at it and got lost
> after about 5 lines, eventhough I'm at college studying computer and
> electronics technology and have advanced programming courses), I still
> very much know whats going on with Mozilla. But I'm totally confused
> over the reasoning for Thunderbird and Firebird? Whats the point when
> you already have Mozilla? I dont see the point of having two separate
> programs for your browser and email, although it would be great if the
> browser or email portion of the program would remain open if the other
> crashed, but other than that i think they should be integrated.
> If I am wrong should I switch? what would be the advantages and
> disadvantages?
>
> Thanks,
> Daniel Steinberg
> Student in 3rd year Computer Engineering Technology program at Seneca
> College in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
>

Daniel

Currently, you have a choice
a release version of the Suite Product Mozilla 1.5
or
a beta of the standalone browser Firebird .7
and an alpaha of the standalone email/news Thunderbird .3

Once these two products reach a mature level then the main Mozilla trunk
may branch into them


Why? Choice. A user will not be forced to download the entire suite
when all they want is a browser, or an email/news application.
A user will not have to download and configure the email/news module if
all they want is a replacement for IE say

Why? Speed. By making each product leaner and meaner, by removal of
the code for the suite, each will be faster in its own area.

Why? Optimal effectiveness. Each module can be
changed/upgraded/improved without impacting on the other. Currently if a
change is made in say plug ins for the browser portion, it will also
effect the email/news portion as well. A 'fix' that is developed
primarily for a website problem may fail when it comes to newsgroups or
email.


Why? Usability Scale. Each module can use the entire UI interface and
space for its own purposes, without regard to the other component

Why? Focus Workgroups. Each package can be developed into its own, on
its own, by people who are focused on that component


Once the two products reach maturity, they should integrate in a manner
which will echo that of the suite version. So in the end, while you will
have more individual components, each will be more effective in its own
field than the suite is.

In a sense, it's simply a breakdown of the suite into component modules,
which when mature, will be available to recombine seamlessly into a
group of applications, just like the suite is now.

 
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Daniel Steinberg
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      11-04-2003
> Daniel
>
> Currently, you have a choice
> a release version of the Suite Product Mozilla 1.5
> or
> a beta of the standalone browser Firebird .7
> and an alpaha of the standalone email/news Thunderbird .3
>
> Once these two products reach a mature level then the main Mozilla trunk
> may branch into them
>
>
> Why? Choice. A user will not be forced to download the entire suite
> when all they want is a browser, or an email/news application.
> A user will not have to download and configure the email/news module if
> all they want is a replacement for IE say
>
> Why? Speed. By making each product leaner and meaner, by removal of
> the code for the suite, each will be faster in its own area.

Is the code for each based on the code from each module of Mozilla? Or
are they build from scratch? I would prefer something based on the
Mozilla code as it seems to be very good.

>
> Why? Optimal effectiveness. Each module can be
> changed/upgraded/improved without impacting on the other. Currently if a
> change is made in say plug ins for the browser portion, it will also
> effect the email/news portion as well. A 'fix' that is developed
> primarily for a website problem may fail when it comes to newsgroups or
> email.

I've never had any problems with one module affecting the other, except
when one crashes the other does too, but I'm sure you could write
exception handling code to allow one module to crash and keep the others
open.

> Why? Usability Scale. Each module can use the entire UI interface and
> space for its own purposes, without regard to the other component


I dont understand this. Entire UI? Isnt this already done? Mail/News
takes up the whole screen (except where ICQ is docked on the right side
of my screen, but thats just my set up), so does the browser, or are you
refering to menu items and the module selector part of the status bar at
the bottom of the window?

> Why? Focus Workgroups. Each package can be developed into its own, on
> its own, by people who are focused on that component
>
>
> Once the two products reach maturity, they should integrate in a manner
> which will echo that of the suite version. So in the end, while you will
> have more individual components, each will be more effective in its own
> field than the suite is.


> In a sense, it's simply a breakdown of the suite into component modules,
> which when mature, will be available to recombine seamlessly into a
> group of applications, just like the suite is now.
>

So in the end Mozilla ver. X might be completely made up of the
individual apps integrated together? So I wouldnt have to worry till then?

Thanks,
Daniel

 
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dantu
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-04-2003
Daniel Steinberg wrote:

>> Daniel
>>
>> Currently, you have a choice
>> a release version of the Suite Product Mozilla 1.5
>> or
>> a beta of the standalone browser Firebird .7
>> and an alpaha of the standalone email/news Thunderbird .3
>>
>> Once these two products reach a mature level then the main Mozilla
>> trunk may branch into them
>>
>>
>> Why? Choice. A user will not be forced to download the entire suite
>> when all they want is a browser, or an email/news application.
>> A user will not have to download and configure the email/news module
>> if all they want is a replacement for IE say
>>
>> Why? Speed. By making each product leaner and meaner, by removal
>> of the code for the suite, each will be faster in its own area.

>
> Is the code for each based on the code from each module of Mozilla? Or
> are they build from scratch? I would prefer something based on the
> Mozilla code as it seems to be very good.
>
>>
>> Why? Optimal effectiveness. Each module can be
>> changed/upgraded/improved without impacting on the other. Currently
>> if a change is made in say plug ins for the browser portion, it will
>> also effect the email/news portion as well. A 'fix' that is
>> developed primarily for a website problem may fail when it comes to
>> newsgroups or email.

>
> I've never had any problems with one module affecting the other,
> except when one crashes the other does too, but I'm sure you could
> write exception handling code to allow one module to crash and keep
> the others open.
>
>> Why? Usability Scale. Each module can use the entire UI interface and
>> space for its own purposes, without regard to the other component

>
>
> I dont understand this. Entire UI? Isnt this already done? Mail/News
> takes up the whole screen (except where ICQ is docked on the right
> side of my screen, but thats just my set up), so does the browser, or
> are you refering to menu items and the module selector part of the
> status bar at the bottom of the window?
>
>> Why? Focus Workgroups. Each package can be developed into its own,
>> on its own, by people who are focused on that component
>>
>>
>> Once the two products reach maturity, they should integrate in a
>> manner which will echo that of the suite version. So in the end,
>> while you will have more individual components, each will be more
>> effective in its own field than the suite is.

>
>
>> In a sense, it's simply a breakdown of the suite into component
>> modules, which when mature, will be available to recombine seamlessly
>> into a group of applications, just like the suite is now.
>>

> So in the end Mozilla ver. X might be completely made up of the
> individual apps integrated together? So I wouldnt have to worry till
> then?
>
> Thanks,
> Daniel
>

Daniel

It would be preferable if you bottom-posted not interspersed if
you please, thanks.

The basis for each component is based largely on the Mozilla suite

And the reason you never had problems with the two components is because
the developers had to take extra care not to crash the other when they
made changes to one! Many changes and fixes for one component had to be
backed out of the development when their code caused conflict in the
other side of the house so to speak. Needless to say, the if the
products had been separately developed from day one, each would be far
in advance of the situation the suite is in now. Of course you dont see
one component crashing the other, simply because the developers had to
back out many changes in one, that DID crash the other!

The UI issue. Each component can take advantage of the entire footprint
of the product for its own end. No need to make room in the UI for such
browsing components as Internet Search or Cookies in the email
component. There is only so much space to go around without making the
product vastly bloated. Preferences can be restricted to just what the
component requires, no more, no less. In the browser you dont need the
email/news component javascript enabled on/off in email/news for
example. You can also do things like add a UI for html on/off for
email/news, without impacting on redoing the entire engine code base
(because a browser is intended to display HTML)

The question of when (and if) the Mozilla development will be switched
has not been answered yet. Mozilla 1.6 is already in development as a
suite product, so we can at least know that that is to be continued
until it reaches release status. Moz 1.7? 1.8? 2?, a lot depends on
the level of maturity each individual component reaches. No one want
to release two products that are not as good or as functional as the
suite which is already available after all.


And you dont have to worry at all, who ever said you did in the first place?
Mozilla 1.5 has just been released as a suite version
Mozilla 1.6 is being developed as a suite version
Firebird, at the .7 release is approaching a release perhaps
but Thunderbird at .3 hasnt even reached beta status yet (tho its
expected to soon)

So who knows when everything will come together and be advanced enough
for the two components to replace the one suite version. It wont be this
year anyway.

 
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Jarmo P
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-05-2003
> going on with Mozilla. But I'm totally confused over the reasoning for
> Thunderbird and Firebird? Whats the point when you already have Mozilla?
> I dont see the point of having two separate programs for your browser
> and email, although it would be great if the browser or email portion of
> the program would remain open if the other crashed, but other than that
> i think they should be integrated.
> If I am wrong should I switch? what would be the advantages and
> disadvantages?
>
> Thanks,
> Daniel Steinberg
> Student in 3rd year Computer Engineering Technology program at Seneca
> College in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
>


I changed Firebird to my default browser from IE.
Mozilla 1.5 was used more than IE, but just cause it had also that email and
other things added, did not like to put it as default. Now, if I for
instance get a link in an email program or these newsgroups, up pops
Firebird, liking the idea that it is not a memory hog.

Just cause Mozilla is a good browser, it does not mean everybody likes its
email/news program.
If I remember correctly, the old Netscape 3 still had the browser and
mail/news program as separate things. Liked that.
Even in the Office suite, Word and Excel etc. are separate programs.

Well, a matter of opinions, some people like suites, while others like to
pick the best ones for each purpose ; )
Jarmo P


 
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