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scada: killer app for ruby

 
 
Peņa, Botp
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      03-09-2005
Hi All,

In searchning for scada systems on the net, i noticed that they are usually
written in c/c++/c# and most of the systems are proprietary (eg, citect,
rockwell) and worst, a lot are running in windows system. There are gnu
scada systems sprouting but are very very alpha.

I think ruby can bridge the gap bw the crude yet reliable plc and the
ubiquitous but unreliable (windows) gui...

kind regards -botp




 
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Simon Strandgaard
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      03-09-2005
On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:51:29 +0900, "Peņa, Botp" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> In searchning for scada systems on the net, i noticed that they are usually
> written in c/c++/c# and most of the systems are proprietary (eg, citect,
> rockwell) and worst, a lot are running in windows system. There are gnu
> scada systems sprouting but are very very alpha.


what is scada ?

--
Simon Strandgaard



 
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Jason Sweat
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-09-2005
On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:17:58 +0900, Simon Strandgaard <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:51:29 +0900, "Peņa, Botp" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > In searchning for scada systems on the net, i noticed that they are usually
> > written in c/c++/c# and most of the systems are proprietary (eg, citect,
> > rockwell) and worst, a lot are running in windows system. There are gnu
> > scada systems sprouting but are very very alpha.

>
> what is scada ?
>
> --
> Simon Strandgaard


From way back when I worked in Industrial Control, an achronym for:
Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition.

Basically a system to montor PLCs (Programmable Logic Controllers,
special purpose computers, usually wired up to machines in plants)
that both capture data about what is happening on the system (from
sensors wired to the PLC) and can send setpoint information to the
PLCs (which they use via actuators again wired to the PLC). There
usually is some PC software which displays all of this graphically.

HTH

Regards,
Jason
http://blog.casey-sweat.us/



 
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Paul
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-09-2005
I wrote a pretty neat modbus simulator. I'll see if I can open source it
It only works on windows right now, but ity will be simple to make it work on linux

Paul

Jason Sweat <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>.. .
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:17:58 +0900, Simon Strandgaard <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:51:29 +0900, "Peņa, Botp" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > > In searchning for scada systems on the net, i noticed that they are usually
> > > written in c/c++/c# and most of the systems are proprietary (eg, citect,
> > > rockwell) and worst, a lot are running in windows system. There are gnu
> > > scada systems sprouting but are very very alpha.

> >
> > what is scada ?
> >
> > --
> > Simon Strandgaard

>
> From way back when I worked in Industrial Control, an achronym for:
> Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition.
>
> Basically a system to montor PLCs (Programmable Logic Controllers,
> special purpose computers, usually wired up to machines in plants)
> that both capture data about what is happening on the system (from
> sensors wired to the PLC) and can send setpoint information to the
> PLCs (which they use via actuators again wired to the PLC). There
> usually is some PC software which displays all of this graphically.
>
> HTH
>
> Regards,
> Jason
> http://blog.casey-sweat.us/

 
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Luke Graham
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-09-2005
I think gnu scada systems are unlikely for a few reasons.
Customers want support more than anything, costs for
a broken scada can be calculated in wheelbarrows of
cash per minute. Scada is boring. Scada is hard.
The cost of integration can be more than the cost of
the software anyway. Finally, anyone who knows
anything about it is probably already doing it for a living.
Would you run your control systems on some kids
part-time experiment?

One last thing.. ruby is fine for the windows end, all the
protocols can be implemented.. but its just not going
to work on the embedded end.


On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:31:11 +0900, Jason Sweat <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:17:58 +0900, Simon Strandgaard <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:51:29 +0900, "Peņa, Botp" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > > In searchning for scada systems on the net, i noticed that they are usually
> > > written in c/c++/c# and most of the systems are proprietary (eg, citect,
> > > rockwell) and worst, a lot are running in windows system. There are gnu
> > > scada systems sprouting but are very very alpha.

> >
> > what is scada ?
> >
> > --
> > Simon Strandgaard

>
> From way back when I worked in Industrial Control, an achronym for:
> Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition.
>
> Basically a system to montor PLCs (Programmable Logic Controllers,
> special purpose computers, usually wired up to machines in plants)
> that both capture data about what is happening on the system (from
> sensors wired to the PLC) and can send setpoint information to the
> PLCs (which they use via actuators again wired to the PLC). There
> usually is some PC software which displays all of this graphically.
>
> HTH
>
> Regards,
> Jason
> http://blog.casey-sweat.us/
>
>



--
spooq



 
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jm
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-10-2005

On 10/03/2005, at 10:41 AM, Luke Graham wrote:

> I think gnu scada systems are unlikely for a few reasons.
> Customers want support more than anything, costs for
> a broken scada can be calculated in wheelbarrows of
> cash per minute. Scada is boring. Scada is hard.
> The cost of integration can be more than the cost of
> the software anyway. Finally, anyone who knows
> anything about it is probably already doing it for a living.
> Would you run your control systems on some kids
> part-time experiment?
>
> One last thing.. ruby is fine for the windows end, all the
> protocols can be implemented.. but its just not going
> to work on the embedded end.



There is already some work in this area (non-ruby through).

http://pvbrowser.org/pvbrowser/index.php

From the web page (introduction section),

SCADA

SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition) is a category of
software application program for process control, the gathering of data
in real time from remote locations in order to control equipment and
conditions. SCADA is used in power plants as well as in oil and gas
refining, telecommunications, transportation, and water and waste
control.

SCADA systems include hardware and software components. The hardware
gathers and feeds data into a computer that has SCADA software
installed. The computer then processes this data and presents it in a
timely manner ( HMI ). SCADA also records and logs all events into a
file stored on a hard disk or sends them to a printer. SCADA warns when
conditions become hazardous by sounding alarms.

ProcessViewBrowser

The concept is similar to an internet browser. But it is intended for
the use in industrial process visualization. It is based on Qt
http://www.trolltech.com which is a platform independent GUI toolkit.
ProcessViewBrowser is platform independent, because only posix calls
and Qt are used. ProcessViewBrowser runs on Linux/Unix, OpenVMS and
Windows. The browser can display nearly all standard Qt widgets
(labels, buttons, editfields, comboboxes, ...) and other widgets for
bmp images, diagram widgets for displaying xy-graphs, OpenGL and VTK.
The widgets can be arranged on your masks. You can specify the position
and size of the widgets.You can place one widget on top of another
widget. I have seen many process visualization systems, which define
their masks in the clients (I think this is not the right way to go).
Instead of this, the masks in ProcessViewBrowser are defined in the
appropriate process computer itself. The user can jump from one process
computer to the other and see all masks. When masks are updated nothing
has to be done in the clients.


J.



 
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Luke Graham
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-10-2005
I look forward to being proved wrong.

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 09:42:53 +0900, jm <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> On 10/03/2005, at 10:41 AM, Luke Graham wrote:
>
> > I think gnu scada systems are unlikely for a few reasons.
> > Customers want support more than anything, costs for
> > a broken scada can be calculated in wheelbarrows of
> > cash per minute. Scada is boring. Scada is hard.
> > The cost of integration can be more than the cost of
> > the software anyway. Finally, anyone who knows
> > anything about it is probably already doing it for a living.
> > Would you run your control systems on some kids
> > part-time experiment?
> >
> > One last thing.. ruby is fine for the windows end, all the
> > protocols can be implemented.. but its just not going
> > to work on the embedded end.

>
> There is already some work in this area (non-ruby through).
>
> http://pvbrowser.org/pvbrowser/index.php
>
> From the web page (introduction section),
>
> SCADA
>
> SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition) is a category of
> software application program for process control, the gathering of data
> in real time from remote locations in order to control equipment and
> conditions. SCADA is used in power plants as well as in oil and gas
> refining, telecommunications, transportation, and water and waste
> control.
>
> SCADA systems include hardware and software components. The hardware
> gathers and feeds data into a computer that has SCADA software
> installed. The computer then processes this data and presents it in a
> timely manner ( HMI ). SCADA also records and logs all events into a
> file stored on a hard disk or sends them to a printer. SCADA warns when
> conditions become hazardous by sounding alarms.
>
> ProcessViewBrowser
>
> The concept is similar to an internet browser. But it is intended for
> the use in industrial process visualization. It is based on Qt
> http://www.trolltech.com which is a platform independent GUI toolkit.
> ProcessViewBrowser is platform independent, because only posix calls
> and Qt are used. ProcessViewBrowser runs on Linux/Unix, OpenVMS and
> Windows. The browser can display nearly all standard Qt widgets
> (labels, buttons, editfields, comboboxes, ...) and other widgets for
> bmp images, diagram widgets for displaying xy-graphs, OpenGL and VTK.
> The widgets can be arranged on your masks. You can specify the position
> and size of the widgets.You can place one widget on top of another
> widget. I have seen many process visualization systems, which define
> their masks in the clients (I think this is not the right way to go).
> Instead of this, the masks in ProcessViewBrowser are defined in the
> appropriate process computer itself. The user can jump from one process
> computer to the other and see all masks. When masks are updated nothing
> has to be done in the clients.
>
>
> J.
>
>



--
spooq


 
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Tom Willis
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-10-2005
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 09:59:42 +0900, Luke Graham <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I look forward to being proved wrong.
>
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 09:42:53 +0900, jm <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> > On 10/03/2005, at 10:41 AM, Luke Graham wrote:
> >
> > > I think gnu scada systems are unlikely for a few reasons.
> > > Customers want support more than anything, costs for
> > > a broken scada can be calculated in wheelbarrows of
> > > cash per minute. Scada is boring. Scada is hard.
> > > The cost of integration can be more than the cost of
> > > the software anyway. Finally, anyone who knows
> > > anything about it is probably already doing it for a living.
> > > Would you run your control systems on some kids
> > > part-time experiment?
> > >
> > > One last thing.. ruby is fine for the windows end, all the
> > > protocols can be implemented.. but its just not going
> > > to work on the embedded end.

> >
> > There is already some work in this area (non-ruby through).
> >
> > http://pvbrowser.org/pvbrowser/index.php
> >
> > From the web page (introduction section),
> >
> > SCADA
> >
> > SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition) is a category of
> > software application program for process control, the gathering of data
> > in real time from remote locations in order to control equipment and
> > conditions. SCADA is used in power plants as well as in oil and gas
> > refining, telecommunications, transportation, and water and waste
> > control.
> >
> > SCADA systems include hardware and software components. The hardware
> > gathers and feeds data into a computer that has SCADA software
> > installed. The computer then processes this data and presents it in a
> > timely manner ( HMI ). SCADA also records and logs all events into a
> > file stored on a hard disk or sends them to a printer. SCADA warns when
> > conditions become hazardous by sounding alarms.
> >
> > ProcessViewBrowser
> >
> > The concept is similar to an internet browser. But it is intended for
> > the use in industrial process visualization. It is based on Qt
> > http://www.trolltech.com which is a platform independent GUI toolkit.
> > ProcessViewBrowser is platform independent, because only posix calls
> > and Qt are used. ProcessViewBrowser runs on Linux/Unix, OpenVMS and
> > Windows. The browser can display nearly all standard Qt widgets
> > (labels, buttons, editfields, comboboxes, ...) and other widgets for
> > bmp images, diagram widgets for displaying xy-graphs, OpenGL and VTK.
> > The widgets can be arranged on your masks. You can specify the position
> > and size of the widgets.You can place one widget on top of another
> > widget. I have seen many process visualization systems, which define
> > their masks in the clients (I think this is not the right way to go).
> > Instead of this, the masks in ProcessViewBrowser are defined in the
> > appropriate process computer itself. The user can jump from one process
> > computer to the other and see all masks. When masks are updated nothing
> > has to be done in the clients.
> >
> >
> > J.
> >
> >

>
> --
> spooq
>
>


I had to integrate a shipping system written in vb6 with something
like a SCADA system once. It was not fun. Most of the time was spent
in integration it was impossible to test before hand, and due to the
geniuses in sales, the schedule and deadline(week before xmas rush)
left very little room for fixing errors.

If I was asked to do it again under the same circumstances, I'd rather
jump off a cliff.
--
Thomas G. Willis
http://paperbackmusic.net


 
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Luke Graham
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-10-2005
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:51:11 +0900, Tom Willis <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 09:59:42 +0900, Luke Graham <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > I look forward to being proved wrong.
> >
> > On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 09:42:53 +0900, jm <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 10/03/2005, at 10:41 AM, Luke Graham wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think gnu scada systems are unlikely for a few reasons.
> > > > Customers want support more than anything, costs for
> > > > a broken scada can be calculated in wheelbarrows of
> > > > cash per minute. Scada is boring. Scada is hard.
> > > > The cost of integration can be more than the cost of
> > > > the software anyway. Finally, anyone who knows
> > > > anything about it is probably already doing it for a living.
> > > > Would you run your control systems on some kids
> > > > part-time experiment?
> > > >
> > > > One last thing.. ruby is fine for the windows end, all the
> > > > protocols can be implemented.. but its just not going
> > > > to work on the embedded end.
> > >
> > > There is already some work in this area (non-ruby through).
> > >
> > > http://pvbrowser.org/pvbrowser/index.php
> > >
> > > From the web page (introduction section),
> > >
> > > SCADA
> > >
> > > SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition) is a category of
> > > software application program for process control, the gathering of data
> > > in real time from remote locations in order to control equipment and
> > > conditions. SCADA is used in power plants as well as in oil and gas
> > > refining, telecommunications, transportation, and water and waste
> > > control.
> > >
> > > SCADA systems include hardware and software components. The hardware
> > > gathers and feeds data into a computer that has SCADA software
> > > installed. The computer then processes this data and presents it in a
> > > timely manner ( HMI ). SCADA also records and logs all events into a
> > > file stored on a hard disk or sends them to a printer. SCADA warns when
> > > conditions become hazardous by sounding alarms.
> > >
> > > ProcessViewBrowser
> > >
> > > The concept is similar to an internet browser. But it is intended for
> > > the use in industrial process visualization. It is based on Qt
> > > http://www.trolltech.com which is a platform independent GUI toolkit.
> > > ProcessViewBrowser is platform independent, because only posix calls
> > > and Qt are used. ProcessViewBrowser runs on Linux/Unix, OpenVMS and
> > > Windows. The browser can display nearly all standard Qt widgets
> > > (labels, buttons, editfields, comboboxes, ...) and other widgets for
> > > bmp images, diagram widgets for displaying xy-graphs, OpenGL and VTK.
> > > The widgets can be arranged on your masks. You can specify the position
> > > and size of the widgets.You can place one widget on top of another
> > > widget. I have seen many process visualization systems, which define
> > > their masks in the clients (I think this is not the right way to go).
> > > Instead of this, the masks in ProcessViewBrowser are defined in the
> > > appropriate process computer itself. The user can jump from one process
> > > computer to the other and see all masks. When masks are updated nothing
> > > has to be done in the clients.
> > >
> > >
> > > J.
> > >
> > >

> >
> > --
> > spooq
> >
> >

>
> I had to integrate a shipping system written in vb6 with something
> like a SCADA system once. It was not fun. Most of the time was spent
> in integration it was impossible to test before hand, and due to the
> geniuses in sales, the schedule and deadline(week before xmas rush)
> left very little room for fixing errors.
>
> If I was asked to do it again under the same circumstances, I'd rather
> jump off a cliff.


This is what I mean when I say the integration is more costly than the
software itself.

--
spooq


 
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gabriele renzi
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-10-2005
Peņa, Botp ha scritto:
> Hi All,
>
> In searchning for scada systems on the net, i noticed that they are usually
> written in c/c++/c# and most of the systems are proprietary (eg, citect,
> rockwell) and worst, a lot are running in windows system. There are gnu
> scada systems sprouting but are very very alpha.
>
> I think ruby can bridge the gap bw the crude yet reliable plc and the
> ubiquitous but unreliable (windows) gui...
>
> kind regards -botp


fwiw, today news:
http://www.qt4lab.org/
"Qt4Lab provides widget plugins and utilities for Rapid Application
Prototyping and for developing SCADA application in the
automotive/aerospace field.
Widgets plugins are available for GNU/Linux and Windows NT/2000/XP."

since qtruby seem to be a great framework, maybe this can be plugged in
and found useful..
 
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