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Jonathan N. Little
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      01-17-2012
dorayme wrote:
> In article
> <0.653e6c722030b220873f.20120116200525GMT.87sjjfo1 (E-Mail Removed)>,
> Ben Bacarisse<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> My IE6 is in a virtual machine provided by Microsoft for compatibility
>> testing. I think these machines are still available, but it was a pain
>> to get it to work in VirtualBox.


Why did you have any trouble getting IE6 to work in XP with VirtualBox?
IE6 came with XP.

<http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/VMvVB.jpg>

>
> Yes, I read about this but noticed it could be a pain to install on
> VirtualBox on a Mac. Will think about it.
>


I had no problem installing VirtualBox in Windows or Ubuntu. Don't think
OSX should be any different.


--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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Ben Bacarisse
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      01-17-2012
"Jonathan N. Little" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> dorayme wrote:
>> In article
>> <0.653e6c722030b220873f.20120116200525GMT.87sjjfo1 (E-Mail Removed)>,
>> Ben Bacarisse<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> My IE6 is in a virtual machine provided by Microsoft for compatibility
>>> testing. I think these machines are still available, but it was a pain
>>> to get it to work in VirtualBox.

>
> Why did you have any trouble getting IE6 to work in XP with
> VirtualBox? IE6 came with XP.


There were two problems: at the time, VirtualBox did not support the
format used by the VM. I think this has changed with more recent
versions, but I am not sure. The second problem was that I wanted to
also run the VMs for IE7 (and later IE. VirtualBox would not do this
because the disc images (as distributed) had the same UUID. Maybe my
threshold for "a pain" is lower than it should be.

> <http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/VMvVB.jpg>


Eh?

<snip>
--
Ben.
 
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dorayme
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      01-17-2012
In article <jf2iev$s86$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"Jonathan N. Little" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> dorayme wrote:
> > In article
> > <0.653e6c722030b220873f.20120116200525GMT.87sjjfo1 (E-Mail Removed)>,
> > Ben Bacarisse<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> >> My IE6 is in a virtual machine provided by Microsoft for compatibility
> >> testing. I think these machines are still available, but it was a pain
> >> to get it to work in VirtualBox.

>
> Why did you have any trouble getting IE6 to work in XP with VirtualBox?
> IE6 came with XP.
>


> <http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/VMvVB.jpg>



You tell me. It works fine *except* it does not accept styles in IE
conditionals, it accepts the styles that IE8 accepts instead. My Win
IE clearly has "IE 6" and "Microsoft Internet Explorer" in brackets on
the top. I could not tell what yours was from the picture above; of
course I believe you.

>
> I had no problem installing VirtualBox in Windows or Ubuntu. Don't think
> OSX should be any different.


It was easy enough to install, and amazing to see how well it worked.
I installed from a disk that I think had IE7 or 8 on it. Anyway
whatever it had, even if it was 6, I upgraded to the latest IE at the
time and this was 8 (and I understand I am stuck on 8 with XP).
Afterwards, I got this Multiple IE from which I kept 6 (not earlier).

See my other post in reply to Ben B re known problem re conditionals.

I should fish out my XP install DVD and maybe check to see if I can
make another VM. If it has 7 or 8 on is it simple to get rid of it and
get 6, I really have no clue on this sort of thing on Windows. Are
there not secret goings on between the IE that gets installed and the
sytem itself and would these not have to be weeded out if one
installed an earlier application?

--
dorayme
 
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Jonathan N. Little
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-17-2012
dorayme wrote:
> In article<jf2iev$s86$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> "Jonathan N. Little"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> dorayme wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <0.653e6c722030b220873f.20120116200525GMT.87sjjfo1 (E-Mail Removed)>,
>>> Ben Bacarisse<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My IE6 is in a virtual machine provided by Microsoft for compatibility
>>>> testing. I think these machines are still available, but it was a pain
>>>> to get it to work in VirtualBox.

>>
>> Why did you have any trouble getting IE6 to work in XP with VirtualBox?
>> IE6 came with XP.
>>

>
>> <http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/VMvVB.jpg>

>
>
> You tell me. It works fine *except* it does not accept styles in IE
> conditionals, it accepts the styles that IE8 accepts instead. My Win
> IE clearly has "IE 6" and "Microsoft Internet Explorer" in brackets on
> the top. I could not tell what yours was from the picture above; of
> course I believe you.


In these VM and VB sessions I only have XP installed with IE6. It gives
me true IE6 results because it is truly IE6 and not a standalone with
MultiplyIEs. I have run MultiplyIEs back when I was running XP, but it
takes some registry hacking to enable correct conditional comments
parsing when running multiply versions.


>
>>
>> I had no problem installing VirtualBox in Windows or Ubuntu. Don't think
>> OSX should be any different.

>
> It was easy enough to install, and amazing to see how well it worked.
> I installed from a disk that I think had IE7 or 8 on it. Anyway
> whatever it had, even if it was 6, I upgraded to the latest IE at the
> time


Yes I intentionally did not upgrade IE so I could test.

> and this was 8 (and I understand I am stuck on 8 with XP).


Yes, need Vista+ for 9

> Afterwards, I got this Multiple IE from which I kept 6 (not earlier).
>




> See my other post in reply to Ben B re known problem re conditionals.
>
> I should fish out my XP install DVD and maybe check to see if I can
> make another VM. If it has 7 or 8 on is it simple to get rid of it and
> get 6, I really have no clue on this sort of thing on Windows. Are
> there not secret goings on between the IE that gets installed and the
> sytem itself and would these not have to be weeded out if one
> installed an earlier application?



It is not easy but you can uninstall IE7|8 and reinstall IE6. I did it
once when IE7 got borked...It was tricky. I installed my VM XP using my
Retail XP Pro disk from my previous computer build that I retired when
I built this one. It is XP at SP1 which come with IE at version 6. If
you installed yours from a later patch level, or from an image then you
may not have the rollback points to remove IE 7 & 8. You have to use IE
remover utilities, Google can help and then you have to have a IE6
install ready.



--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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Jonathan N. Little
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-17-2012
Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> "Jonathan N. Little"<(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>
>> dorayme wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <0.653e6c722030b220873f.20120116200525GMT.87sjjfo1 (E-Mail Removed)>,
>>> Ben Bacarisse<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My IE6 is in a virtual machine provided by Microsoft for compatibility
>>>> testing. I think these machines are still available, but it was a pain
>>>> to get it to work in VirtualBox.

>>
>> Why did you have any trouble getting IE6 to work in XP with
>> VirtualBox? IE6 came with XP.

>
> There were two problems: at the time, VirtualBox did not support the
> format used by the VM. I think this has changed with more recent
> versions, but I am not sure. The second problem was that I wanted to
> also run the VMs for IE7 (and later IE. VirtualBox would not do this
> because the disc images (as distributed) had the same UUID. Maybe my
> threshold for "a pain" is lower than it should be.


Yes they supposedly do. I guess I miss understood you, I had no trouble
getting WinXP with IE6 installed on VirtualBox because I just installed
it directly with a Windows XP CD, I did not convert a MS VM install to VB

>
>> <http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/VMvVB.jpg>

>
> Eh?
>


I was just showing both VB and VM running XP with IE 6 simultaneously,
but of course they are not created with the same install image...


--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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dorayme
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-17-2012
In article <jf2s8c$8gm$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"Jonathan N. Little" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

....
>
> In these VM and VB sessions I only have XP installed with IE6. It gives
> me true IE6 results because it is truly IE6 and not a standalone with
> MultiplyIEs. I have run MultiplyIEs back when I was running XP, but it
> takes some registry hacking to enable correct conditional comments
> parsing when running multiply versions.
>
>


....

dorayme:
> >
> > I should fish out my XP install DVD and maybe check to see if I can
> > make another VM. If it has 7 or 8 on, is it simple to get rid of it and
> > get 6, I really have no clue on this sort of thing on Windows? Are
> > there not secret goings on between the IE that gets installed and the
> > sytem itself and would these not have to be weeded out if one
> > installed an earlier application?

>
>
> It is not easy but you can uninstall IE7|8 and reinstall IE6. I did it
> once when IE7 got borked...It was tricky. I installed my VM XP using my
> Retail XP Pro disk from my previous computer build that I retired when
> I built this one. It is XP at SP1 which come with IE at version 6. If
> you installed yours from a later patch level, or from an image then you
> may not have the rollback points to remove IE 7 & 8. You have to use IE
> remover utilities, Google can help and then you have to have a IE6
> install ready.


I assume that in VirtualBox one can install two XPs as separate
virtual machines, maybe one that is updated to the latest IE8 and one
left at 6.

Thanks for the idea of "remover utilities", I will look one day.
Really out of my skill range all this stuff with Windows. btw, I have
changed my mind about persuading you to come over to Macs, you are too
valuable to me just where you are! <g>

I can get by a bit - the multiple IE being useful - as it is by
knowing or guessing in a conscious way what styles IE6 needs, using a
complete CSS sheet for IE and removing the general sheet altogether
for testing, no link to it at all, and then fashioning the
conditionals and checking in browsershot just once and leaving it at
that.

Am starting to think more seriously about not bothering with 6 *at
all* any more but old habits die hard or just putting a notice up with
a link to how to turn off all styles for a better experience in IE6.
You can do that, of course, without any other browser seeing such a
notice - by using a conditional.

--
dorayme
 
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Ben Bacarisse
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-17-2012
"Jonathan N. Little" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> Ben Bacarisse wrote:

<snip>
>> There were two problems: at the time, VirtualBox did not support the
>> format used by the VM. I think this has changed with more recent
>> versions, but I am not sure. The second problem was that I wanted to
>> also run the VMs for IE7 (and later IE. VirtualBox would not do this
>> because the disc images (as distributed) had the same UUID. Maybe my
>> threshold for "a pain" is lower than it should be.

>
> Yes they supposedly do. I guess I miss understood you, I had no
> trouble getting WinXP with IE6 installed on VirtualBox because I just
> installed it directly with a Windows XP CD, I did not convert a MS VM
> install to VB


We might have been talking about different things. I was talking
specifically about MS's various IE testing images -- I don't have a copy
of XP. All it took was some web research and the time to re-write
however many GB of data (it was three machines -- IE6 to . It all
works, but it was a pain.

<snip>
--
Ben.
 
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Jonathan N. Little
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-17-2012
dorayme wrote:
> In article<jf2s8c$8gm$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> "Jonathan N. Little"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> ...
>>
>> In these VM and VB sessions I only have XP installed with IE6. It gives
>> me true IE6 results because it is truly IE6 and not a standalone with
>> MultiplyIEs. I have run MultiplyIEs back when I was running XP, but it
>> takes some registry hacking to enable correct conditional comments
>> parsing when running multiply versions.
>>
>>

>
> ...
>
> dorayme:
>>>
>>> I should fish out my XP install DVD and maybe check to see if I can
>>> make another VM. If it has 7 or 8 on, is it simple to get rid of it and
>>> get 6, I really have no clue on this sort of thing on Windows? Are
>>> there not secret goings on between the IE that gets installed and the
>>> sytem itself and would these not have to be weeded out if one
>>> installed an earlier application?

>>
>>
>> It is not easy but you can uninstall IE7|8 and reinstall IE6. I did it
>> once when IE7 got borked...It was tricky. I installed my VM XP using my
>> Retail XP Pro disk from my previous computer build that I retired when
>> I built this one. It is XP at SP1 which come with IE at version 6. If
>> you installed yours from a later patch level, or from an image then you
>> may not have the rollback points to remove IE 7& 8. You have to use IE
>> remover utilities, Google can help and then you have to have a IE6
>> install ready.

>
> I assume that in VirtualBox one can install two XPs as separate
> virtual machines, maybe one that is updated to the latest IE8 and one
> left at 6.


2, 3, 4 or as many as you wish limited by your disk space. At a min of
10 GB apiece most of us have enough room for a couple. I was luck to get
a couple of 1TB drives dirt cheap before Thailand flooded.

>
> Thanks for the idea of "remover utilities", I will look one day.


Well because IE is really an OS component and not just a web browser
downgrading can really compromise the "stability"* of Windows. I would
suggests the simplest and most dependable way is just reserve 10GB and
make another VB virtual machine image and install XP without upgrading IE.

*offer of the straight-line for all the jokes about Windows BSODs...

> Really out of my skill range all this stuff with Windows. btw, I have
> changed my mind about persuading you to come over to Macs, you are too
> valuable to me just where you are!<g>


No worry, cuz it ain't going to happen. I chafe now with MS proprietary
lock-in so I am certainly not going to voluntary don the Mac
straitjacket. And as a starving-artist cannot afford the Mac-tax just to
sport the Apple on the hardware. Functionality is the most important
thing to me in a computer not the "shiny". When Redmond gets in my way I
go to Tux and get my *nix without handcuffs. And I don't have to buy new
hardware. Sorry.

>
> I can get by a bit - the multiple IE being useful - as it is by
> knowing or guessing in a conscious way what styles IE6 needs, using a
> complete CSS sheet for IE and removing the general sheet altogether
> for testing, no link to it at all, and then fashioning the
> conditionals and checking in browsershot just once and leaving it at
> that.


I think having a VB machine with IE natively at 6 and another with 8 (or
Win7 with 9) where F12 gets to the developers tools to test for 7-9.

>
> Am starting to think more seriously about not bothering with 6 *at
> all* any more but old habits die hard or just putting a notice up with


Same here. If the page is still usable I cannot see adding a fork with
significant code...I want to forget the the days of the "if then elseif
then elseif then elseif elseif then else" procedures!

> a link to how to turn off all styles for a better experience in IE6.
> You can do that, of course, without any other browser seeing such a
> notice - by using a conditional.
>


Nope I just want to avoid the conditionals as I said above. If the
margins are screwed or PNGs are the best option and they "see grey" so
what! All I worry about is the peekaboo and guillotine bugs.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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dorayme
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-17-2012
In article <jf43be$fb$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"Jonathan N. Little" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > Really out of my skill range all this stuff with Windows. btw, I have
> > changed my mind about persuading you to come over to Macs, you are too
> > valuable to me just where you are! <g>

>
> No worry, cuz it ain't going to happen. I chafe now with MS proprietary
> lock-in so I am certainly not going to voluntary don the Mac
> straitjacket. And as a starving-artist cannot afford the Mac-tax just to
> sport the Apple on the hardware. Functionality is the most important
> thing to me in a computer not the "shiny". When Redmond gets in my way I
> go to Tux and get my *nix without handcuffs. And I don't have to buy new
> hardware. Sorry.


Now you have me worried, this is the kind of protesting-too-much racy
talk a man uses when he is about to jump ship.

Don't do it Jonathan, stay with Windows!

Macs are terrible machines and far too expensive. Their only good
point and it is not so good really when you come to think of it is
that they take lovely screenshots and the owner, in an undocumented
procedure, can eat the apple logo.

Apart from all their technical and financial faults, they have mean
streaks, vicious personality traits. I had to get a cordless mouse so
I could put it safely away at night out of range, after too often
finding tethered mice badly beaten up overnight by the Mac. They start
off slow, a little bruise here and there until it develops into total
destruction of the poor things. Even my cordless mouse blinks a little
in fear and protest when I leave the desk during the day, I leave it
at least a metre away now. And I have enrolled it into a karate class.

--
dorayme
 
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Jonathan N. Little
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-17-2012
dorayme wrote:
> In article<jf43be$fb$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> "Jonathan N. Little"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>> No worry, cuz it ain't going to happen. I chafe now with MS proprietary
>> lock-in so I am certainly not going to voluntary don the Mac
>> straitjacket. And as a starving-artist cannot afford the Mac-tax just to
>> sport the Apple on the hardware. Functionality is the most important
>> thing to me in a computer not the "shiny". When Redmond gets in my way I
>> go to Tux and get my *nix without handcuffs. And I don't have to buy new
>> hardware. Sorry.

>
> Now you have me worried, this is the kind of protesting-too-much racy
> talk a man uses when he is about to jump ship.


"racy talk"?

>
> Don't do it Jonathan, stay with Windows!


There is a number of things in this new Windows 7 that has been a bit of
a PITA...functionality removed as part of this overall dumbing-down that
all OSs are trending. I see nothing wrong is offering a cellphone GUI to
folks who have no inner geek, but I wish they would foist it upon the
the power users that use those features to get stuff done.


>
> Macs are terrible machines and far too expensive. Their only good
> point and it is not so good really when you come to think of it is
> that they take lovely screenshots and the owner, in an undocumented
> procedure, can eat the apple logo.
>
> Apart from all their technical and financial faults, they have mean
> streaks, vicious personality traits. I had to get a cordless mouse so
> I could put it safely away at night out of range, after too often
> finding tethered mice badly beaten up overnight by the Mac. They start
> off slow, a little bruise here and there until it develops into total
> destruction of the poor things. Even my cordless mouse blinks a little
> in fear and protest when I leave the desk during the day, I leave it
> at least a metre away now. And I have enrolled it into a karate class.
>




The Mac community is safe from me. Truly I can get the Mac experience
sans the wallet-lightening feature with Linux. I really like Ubuntu and
use it for my laptop and netbook in addition to my servers. If I could
just get CorelDraw to run in Wine... And then GNOME2 had to get dumped
for GNOME3|Unity. UGH! (I bet Beauregard still running Lucid Lynx)


--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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