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Getting started with Java on a Mac

 
 
John B. Matthews
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      01-15-2012
In article <IMgQq.9$(E-Mail Removed)>,
Arved Sandstrom <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
[...]
> It hasn't been just 1.5->1.6 that exhibited a delay, the other jumps
> (1.3->1.4, 1.4->1.5) have been like that too. I believe that there is
> a developer base that is relatively unconcerned about this (like me),
> and that's server-side folks who see their product ultimately deploy
> on Windows or Solaris or Linux against an older JVM from Sun (now
> Oracle) or IBM or BEA (now Oracle). Not many "enterprise" clients
> upgrade their infrastructure so quick either.


Apple sometimes makes pre-release versions available to developers
under the terms of a license that limits disclosures.

> I have to acknowledge that Mac Java developers who want to write
> consumer-type GUI software didn't pick the best platform for it.


Supporting cross-platform Swing applications has improved my
understanding of layouts and the UI delegate's role in calculating
preferred size, among other things.

> Although I personally believe that anyone who "needs" the latest Java
> the day it comes out has misplaced priorities, it's not my place to
> say, I'm not a writer of consumer GUI apps. So if such a person is
> wedded to the Mac (for other good reasons) but needs the latest Java,
> they'd best use a VM. And quite frankly a lot of professional
> developers using Macs do use VMs anyway. I know I do. So it's a moot
> point actually. Given that the VMs are so good it's a wonder that
> Apple didn't throw in the towel for Java support a long time ago.


Oracle's VirtualBox is a good example.

[...]
--
John B. Matthews
trashgod at gmail dot com
<http://sites.google.com/site/drjohnbmatthews>
 
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Arne Vajh°j
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      01-15-2012
On 1/13/2012 1:01 PM, Jim Gibson wrote:
> In article<(E-Mail Removed) .com>, Wayne
> Dernoncourt<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> I've been looking for a programming language to help me write tools to do
>> stuff. For example generate 2-D plots from CSV or text files. C++ can do
>> that (and more) but there's a lot more overhead and maintenance that that
>> requires. In the past I've used Tcl/Tk for that kind of task but that seems
>> to be dying<sniff>, Excel with Visual Basic can do most of that but not so
>> much on the Mac.
>>
>> I have a book "Core Jave" by Sun but I'm at a loss on how to start Java on my
>> Mac. Is there any help for this noob?
>>

>
> Java will run on a Mac, but is not well supported. Java is (or was)
> provided by Apple, but the version often lagged, and they have
> announced dropping support for Java. You will then depend upon Oracle
> or some other party providing a Mac version:
>
> <http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010...e-Announce-Ope
> nJDK-Project-for-Mac-OS-X.html>


In the end Apple turned over the relevant code to OpenJDK,
so OpenJDK is Java for MacOS X from 1.7+.

It is still preview not GA, but you can get it here:

http://jdk7.java.net/macportpreview/

Arne


 
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Arne Vajh°j
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      01-15-2012
On 1/13/2012 7:58 PM, Steve Sobol wrote:
> In article<130120121001312844%(E-Mail Removed)>, Jim Gibson says...
>> Java will run on a Mac, but is not well supported. Java is (or was)
>> provided by Apple, but the version often lagged, and they have
>> announced dropping support for Java.

>
> They did, but then they announced that they will support Java going
> forward.


They donated code to OpenJDK - OpenJDK will support
moving forward.

Download link posted in another post.

Arne

 
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Arne Vajh°j
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      01-15-2012
On 1/13/2012 11:47 PM, Gene wrote:
> On Jan 14, 5:13 am, Peter Duniho<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:12:45 -0400, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>> [...] It's been my experience for years (and I've used Java on Macs
>>> going back to when Java appeared) that Apple support for Java on Classic
>>> Mac and Mac OS X has been very good.

>>
>>> Granted I am not a Java GUI guy, I may have written half a dozen trivial
>>> AWT or Swing apps ever in over a decade, and most of them not on a Mac
>>> anyway, so there could be some cruftiness when it comes to that side of
>>> things, but overall Mac Java support is very good. IMO.

>>
>> My experience with Java and the Mac is not as extensive as yours, going
>> back only five years. But I'd say that given that Apple's Java on the Mac
>> was still stuck at 1.5 when 1.7 was on the verge of release, there's
>> justification for considering Java on the Mac to be lagging. Note also the
>> problem that on other platforms you can update to the latest Java easily,
>> while on the Mac (at least historically) the only way to get the latest
>> Java release was to buy the latest OS version as well.
>>
>> Maybe with the OpenJDK stuff, Java on the Mac will become less-proprietary,
>> more up-to-date, etc. And I'd certainly agree that Java development on the
>> Mac is viable, even if the API lags behind the rest of the world. But I'd
>> definitely not call Apple's support of Java on the Mac "very good". I
>> wouldn't even call it close to that.

>
> It's something like a red herring to say Apple support for Java is
> this or that. Certainly Microsoft provides less support under
> Windows. Ditto for Linux. Apple is unique in embracing Java at all.


No.

IBM support Java on z/OS.
IBM support Java on i.
IBM support Java on AIX.
HP support Java on HP-UX.
HP support Java on OpenVMS.
SUN/Oracle support Java on Solaris.

This is the Java model. The OS vendor support Java
for their platform.

It was even supposed to be the case for Windows, but SUN
and MS ended up in court and MS stopped developing Java/non-Java.


> Moreover, Apple's policy of associating a Java release with each OS X
> release is a more sane lifecycle management strategy than the once-
> every-two-months routine release of the JVM/JDK. Ask any Windows user
> who runs it what they think of the Java update daemon!


They probably like that Java behaves similar to Windows itself,
AcrobatReader, Flash, FireFox, ThunderBird etc..

Automatic updating is standard today.


> In all, the policy of frequent releases seems for more than 15 years
> to have fostered a Java culture of half-baked architectures and
> okayness with bugs a la amateur night. Ultimately, this is why Java
> has never reached the tipping point as a web dynamic content
> mechanism. What a shame... Java could have been Flash. And the
> world would have been a better place.
>
> Upshot: If Oracle ultimately makes an annual, high quality Java
> release for all platforms, life is going to be better for everyone
> than the current ad hoc mish mosh.
>
> Just an opinion...


Given that it is typical security fixes that drive the release
of Java updates, then updating once a year would be a complete
disaster.

Arne
 
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Wayne Dernoncourt
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      01-16-2012
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
(in article <130120121611307236%(E-Mail Removed)>):

> In article <(E-Mail Removed)> , Wayne
> Dernoncourt <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:01:31 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
>> (in article <130120121001312844%(E-Mail Removed)>):
>>

>
>>
>>> I use a combination of Perl and gnuplot to generate 2D plots from CSV
>>> or text files on a Mac. Since you are coming from Tcl/Tk, maybe picking
>>> up Perl wouldn't be too hard.

>>
>> It's been 10-12 years since I've used Perl, one of the "potential"
>> applications is 3D rotation in plotting points from a text file. Currently
>> one of the guys at work is using Matlab for that, I was hoping for
>> something
>> a little simpler.
>>

>
> gnuplot will plot 3D plots from numbers in a text file, if the file is
> formatted appropriately. It can also do rotation of the view point.
> However, it is just for display, and you can't (AFAIK) store the
> resulting rotated points.


The results are just for displaying the points. I have no clue if/when I'm
going to deal with surfaces (the Z-axis), the points are physically on
surfaces and the target users need to be able to identify points on the
physical surfaces. I know that this could very well neer happen. There is a
guy that had a way to use Maya(?) to produce views with a surface model and
overlaying the points. He insisted that he needed more information (a more
refined surface model, etc.) - using ping pong balls instead of the actual
shapes would've been fine, that is it's better than what we have. It never
happened, sigh.

<WRT matrix math, etc.) MATLAB is terrific for lots of things, for other
things it's overkill.

> There are several IDEs for Java under Mac OS X:


> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&...+x&ie=UTF-8&oe
> =UTF-8>


> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.


I haven't had the time/inclination to do that over the weekend. I'll d that
shortly. Thanks much.

 
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Wayne Dernoncourt
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      01-17-2012
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
(in article <130120121611307236%(E-Mail Removed)>):

> In article <(E-Mail Removed)> , Wayne
> Dernoncourt <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:01:31 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
>> (in article <130120121001312844%(E-Mail Removed)>):


>>> I use a combination of Perl and gnuplot to generate 2D plots from CSV
>>> or text files on a Mac. Since you are coming from Tcl/Tk, maybe picking
>>> up Perl wouldn't be too hard.


I've written code in Tcl/Tk to "tie" programs together mainly in the Unix
world. It was very useful but the last time I tried to get Tcl/Tk to work it
didn't work well (it wouldn't run, I don't remember the issue but there were
other alternatives at the time).

>> It's been 10-12 years since I've used Perl, one of the "potential"
>> applications is 3D rotation in plotting points from a text file. Currently
>> one of the guys at work is using Matlab for that, I was hoping for
>> something
>> a little simpler.
>>

>
> gnuplot will plot 3D plots from numbers in a text file, if the file is
> formatted appropriately. It can also do rotation of the view point.
> However, it is just for display, and you can't (AFAIK) store the
> resulting rotated points.


> There are several IDEs for Java under Mac OS X:


> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&...+x&ie=UTF-8&oe
> =UTF-8>


> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.


It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill, I need to do some reading to
figure out which version is appropriate - EE, Classic, etc.

 
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Arne Vajh°j
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      01-17-2012
On 1/16/2012 8:24 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
>> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&...+x&ie=UTF-8&oe
>> =UTF-8>

>
>> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
>> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.

>
> It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill,


I strongly suspect that NetBeans would work too.

> I need to do some reading to
> figure out which version is appropriate - EE, Classic, etc.


desktop apps => Eclipse IDE for Java Developers

server apps => Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers

Arne





 
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Wayne Dernoncourt
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      01-17-2012
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 21:20:31 -0500, Arne Vajh°j wrote
(in article <4f14daf0$0$289$(E-Mail Removed)>):

> On 1/16/2012 8:24 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
>>> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&...+x&ie=UTF-8&oe
>>> =UTF-8>

>>
>>> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
>>> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.

>>
>> It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill,

>
> I strongly suspect that NetBeans would work too.


I was thinking NetBeans was targeted towards enterprise apps, obviously I
need to widen reading.

>> I need to do some reading to
>> figure out which version is appropriate - EE, Classic, etc.


> desktop apps => Eclipse IDE for Java Developers


> server apps => Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers


Thank you for the clarifying that. I'm starting out as a beginner so I'm
going for desktop apps for now.

 
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Arne Vajh°j
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      01-17-2012
On 1/17/2012 5:33 AM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 21:20:31 -0500, Arne Vajh°j wrote
> (in article<4f14daf0$0$289$(E-Mail Removed)>):
>
>> On 1/16/2012 8:24 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
>>>> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&...+x&ie=UTF-8&oe
>>>> =UTF-8>
>>>
>>>> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
>>>> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.
>>>
>>> It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill,

>>
>> I strongly suspect that NetBeans would work too.

>
> I was thinking NetBeans was targeted towards enterprise apps, obviously I
> need to widen reading.


NetBeans should cover both SE and EE apps.

Arne

 
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Arne Vajh°j
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      01-17-2012
On 1/17/2012 2:30 PM, Steve Sobol wrote:
> In article<(E-Mail Removed) .com>, Wayne
> Dernoncourt says...
>> Thank you for the clarifying that. I'm starting out as a beginner so I'm
>> going for desktop apps for now.

>
> I don't want to start another IDE war, but I will point out that I
> switched from Netbeans to Eclipse years ago and haven't looked back.


I prefer Eclipse too.

But there are also those that prefer NetBeans.

Arne
 
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