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W3C Validation

 
 
Ray_Net
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-03-2011
Could you tell me how to modify my page:
http://home.scarlet.be/~ds367815/
to avoid the 3 errors when using:
http://validator.w3.org/

If i replace
<frameset cols="20%,80%" border=1 frameborder=1 framespacing=0>
by
<frameset cols="20%,80%">

There is no errors, then the frame separator rendered is bigger than a
fine wire. I prefer a fine wire as frame separator.
 
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Jukka K. Korpela
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-03-2011
2011-12-03 22:36, Ray_Net wrote:

> Could you tell me how to modify my page:
> http://home.scarlet.be/~ds367815/
> to avoid the 3 errors when using:
> http://validator.w3.org/


Just ignore the error messages.

> If i replace
> <frameset cols="20%,80%" border=1 frameborder=1 framespacing=0>
> by
> <frameset cols="20%,80%">
>
> There is no errors, then the frame separator rendered is bigger than a
> fine wire. I prefer a fine wire as frame separator.


Frames are defined in HTML 4.01 in a certain way that mostly, but not
entirely, reflects browser support to frames. Mostly by mistake, the
attributes for controlling appearance were defined incompletely. Nobody
is going to change HTML 4.01, so you just need to live with the error
messages when you validate.

Frames were popular in the middle 1990s. Nowadays most people use
something else. For a three-page site, I would build navigation by hand.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
 
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Ray_Net
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-03-2011
In article <jbe26k$i07$(E-Mail Removed)>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
>
> 2011-12-03 22:36, Ray_Net wrote:
>
> > Could you tell me how to modify my page:
> > http://home.scarlet.be/~ds367815/
> > to avoid the 3 errors when using:
> > http://validator.w3.org/

>
> Just ignore the error messages.
>
> > If i replace
> > <frameset cols="20%,80%" border=1 frameborder=1 framespacing=0>
> > by
> > <frameset cols="20%,80%">
> >
> > There is no errors, then the frame separator rendered is bigger than a
> > fine wire. I prefer a fine wire as frame separator.

>
> Frames are defined in HTML 4.01 in a certain way that mostly, but not
> entirely, reflects browser support to frames. Mostly by mistake, the
> attributes for controlling appearance were defined incompletely. Nobody
> is going to change HTML 4.01, so you just need to live with the error
> messages when you validate.
>
> Frames were popular in the middle 1990s. Nowadays most people use
> something else. For a three-page site, I would build navigation by hand.


By navigation by hand, you mean that when clicking on a menuc choice , i
need to send each time the complete page ?
 
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dorayme
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-03-2011
In article <(E-Mail Removed)> ,
Ray_Net <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Could you tell me how to modify my page:
> http://home.scarlet.be/~ds367815/
> to avoid the 3 errors when using:
> http://validator.w3.org/
>
> If i replace
> <frameset cols="20%,80%" border=1 frameborder=1 framespacing=0>
> by
> <frameset cols="20%,80%">
>
> There is no errors, then the frame separator rendered is bigger than a
> fine wire. I prefer a fine wire as frame separator.


Here is one way to get a nice thin line and keep the validator
happy. Remove all those attributes from the frameset element. But
put some in the frame element.

<frameset cols="20%,80%">

<frame name="menusub" frameborder="0" src="left.html">
<frame name="mainsub" frameborder="0" src="right.html">

</frameset>

and stick a right border on left.html (or maybe just a left
border on right.html).

What is rarely understood by people about these matters is the
importance getting it right is to the frames and framesets
themselves. Browsers do not much care, they just go along with
whatever, they show the most incredible lack of emotion. But
framesets and frames are sensitive creatures, highly emotional,
their only friend these days in a hostile world is the validator.

--
dorayme
 
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Jukka K. Korpela
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      12-03-2011
2011-12-03 23:29, Ray_Net wrote:

> By navigation by hand, you mean that when clicking on a menuc choice , i
> need to send each time the complete page ?


Yes. Do you expect that to matter much for, say, a page with a total
size of 24 kilobytes, where 16 kilobytes consist of an image (which will
probably be cached by the browser)? I canít believe that saving a few
dozen characters (used to set up the menu) would be crucial as compared
with all the accessibility problems of frames.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
 
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MG
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-04-2011

"Ray_Net" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) t...
> In article <jbe26k$i07$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
>>
>> 2011-12-03 22:36, Ray_Net wrote:
>>
>> > Could you tell me how to modify my page:
>> > http://home.scarlet.be/~ds367815/
>> > to avoid the 3 errors when using:
>> > http://validator.w3.org/

>>
>> Just ignore the error messages.
>>
>> > If i replace
>> > <frameset cols="20%,80%" border=1 frameborder=1 framespacing=0>
>> > by
>> > <frameset cols="20%,80%">
>> >
>> > There is no errors, then the frame separator rendered is bigger than a
>> > fine wire. I prefer a fine wire as frame separator.

>>
>> Frames are defined in HTML 4.01 in a certain way that mostly, but not
>> entirely, reflects browser support to frames. Mostly by mistake, the
>> attributes for controlling appearance were defined incompletely. Nobody
>> is going to change HTML 4.01, so you just need to live with the error
>> messages when you validate.
>>
>> Frames were popular in the middle 1990s. Nowadays most people use
>> something else. For a three-page site, I would build navigation by hand.

>
> By navigation by hand, you mean that when clicking on a menuc choice , i
> need to send each time the complete page ?



Yes, send the complete page each time.

What happens if google takes a visitor to this page:
http://home.scarlet.be/~ds367815/PAGE-DETAILS.HTM

--
MG


 
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Ray_Net
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-04-2011
In article <jbfas4$eei$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
>
> "Ray_Net" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) t...
> > In article <jbe26k$i07$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
> >>
> >> 2011-12-03 22:36, Ray_Net wrote:
> >>
> >> > Could you tell me how to modify my page:
> >> > http://home.scarlet.be/~ds367815/
> >> > to avoid the 3 errors when using:
> >> > http://validator.w3.org/
> >>
> >> Just ignore the error messages.
> >>
> >> > If i replace
> >> > <frameset cols="20%,80%" border=1 frameborder=1 framespacing=0>
> >> > by
> >> > <frameset cols="20%,80%">
> >> >
> >> > There is no errors, then the frame separator rendered is bigger than a
> >> > fine wire. I prefer a fine wire as frame separator.
> >>
> >> Frames are defined in HTML 4.01 in a certain way that mostly, but not
> >> entirely, reflects browser support to frames. Mostly by mistake, the
> >> attributes for controlling appearance were defined incompletely. Nobody
> >> is going to change HTML 4.01, so you just need to live with the error
> >> messages when you validate.
> >>
> >> Frames were popular in the middle 1990s. Nowadays most people use
> >> something else. For a three-page site, I would build navigation by hand.

> >
> > By navigation by hand, you mean that when clicking on a menuc choice , i
> > need to send each time the complete page ?

>
>
> Yes, send the complete page each time.
>
> What happens if google takes a visitor to this page:
> http://home.scarlet.be/~ds367815/PAGE-DETAILS.HTM


That's correct...

Did you know how can i place a fine wire vertically to separate the menu
part of the rest ?
 
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MG
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-05-2011

"Ray_Net" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) t...
> In article <jbfas4$eei$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
>>
>> "Ray_Net" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed) t...
>> > In article <jbe26k$i07$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
>> >>
>> >> 2011-12-03 22:36, Ray_Net wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Could you tell me how to modify my page:
>> >> > http://home.scarlet.be/~ds367815/
>> >> > to avoid the 3 errors when using:
>> >> > http://validator.w3.org/
>> >>
>> >> Just ignore the error messages.
>> >>
>> >> > If i replace
>> >> > <frameset cols="20%,80%" border=1 frameborder=1 framespacing=0>
>> >> > by
>> >> > <frameset cols="20%,80%">
>> >> >
>> >> > There is no errors, then the frame separator rendered is bigger than
>> >> > a
>> >> > fine wire. I prefer a fine wire as frame separator.
>> >>
>> >> Frames are defined in HTML 4.01 in a certain way that mostly, but not
>> >> entirely, reflects browser support to frames. Mostly by mistake, the
>> >> attributes for controlling appearance were defined incompletely.
>> >> Nobody
>> >> is going to change HTML 4.01, so you just need to live with the error
>> >> messages when you validate.
>> >>
>> >> Frames were popular in the middle 1990s. Nowadays most people use
>> >> something else. For a three-page site, I would build navigation by
>> >> hand.
>> >
>> > By navigation by hand, you mean that when clicking on a menuc choice ,
>> > i
>> > need to send each time the complete page ?

>>
>>
>> Yes, send the complete page each time.
>>
>> What happens if google takes a visitor to this page:
>> http://home.scarlet.be/~ds367815/PAGE-DETAILS.HTM

>
> That's correct...
>
> Did you know how can i place a fine wire vertically to separate the menu
> part of the rest ?


What I am meaning to say is that you should not be using frames. Use <div>s
instead. You can style the <div> any way you want, including a fine wire.
And put the menu on every page so that you don't get situations like this:
http://home.scarlet.be/~ds367815/PAGE-DETAILS.HTM

--
MG


 
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Denis McMahon
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-05-2011
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 21:36:37 +0100, Ray_Net wrote:

> Could you tell me how to modify my page:
> http://home.scarlet.be/~ds367815/
> to avoid the 3 errors when using:
> http://validator.w3.org/
>
> If i replace
> <frameset cols="20%,80%" border=1 frameborder=1 framespacing=0> by
> <frameset cols="20%,80%">
>
> There is no errors, then the frame separator rendered is bigger than a
> fine wire. I prefer a fine wire as frame separator.


Observations:

1) Changing element sizes triggering re-rendering as the mouse moves over
them is visually distracting and some people find it annoying - for
example the links in the menu section when the pointer is over
"professeurs". Try just using colour changes instead.

2) Do you really need a print this page button? Most browsers have a
print button on their toolbar already, you're duplicating existing
functionality.

3) The mixture of centered and left aligned text on some of the pages is
not easy on the eye.

4) Use a single style sheet. Also, if your server supports it, use server
side includes to include common blocks.

5) Contact details that are shown on every page normally go at the bottom
of the document.

Rgds

Denis McMahon
 
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Neil Gould
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-05-2011
Ray_Net wrote:
> Could you tell me how to modify my page:
> http://home.scarlet.be/~ds367815/
> to avoid the 3 errors when using:
> http://validator.w3.org/
>
> If i replace
> <frameset cols="20%,80%" border=1 frameborder=1 framespacing=0>
> by
> <frameset cols="20%,80%">
>
> There is no errors, then the frame separator rendered is bigger than a
> fine wire. I prefer a fine wire as frame separator.
>

Presuming that you just want to solve your fine-line issue, an easy way is
to not define the border line at all in the frameset, but instead use a
"border-right: 1px;" style on the left-hand menu page.

--
best regards,

Neil


 
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