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Could use a stronger micro 4/3rds body

 
 
RichA
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      11-23-2011
On Nov 22, 4:13*pm, Eric Stevens <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 05:37:07 -0800 (PST), RichA <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Nov 22, 5:51*am, PeterN <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> On 11/22/2011 3:25 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:30:24 -0600, Rich<(E-Mail Removed)> *wrote:

>
> >> <snip>>

>
> >> >> The fact they don't turn as smoothly when you allow the weight of alens
> >> >> to press down pretty much proves it. *But feel free to experiment..

>
> >> > It doesn't prove that "focusing rings are not meant to have unequal
> >> > pressure applied to them". All it does is prove that frictional forces
> >> > increase when you increase the forces applied to the focusing ring;
> >> > but I would expect that. It says nothing at all about whether or not
> >> > the focusing ring is designed to withstand any particular system of
> >> > forces.

>
> >> > Regards,

>
> >> > Eric Stevens

>
> >> Eric, I'm sure you realize you are contradicting the opinion of the
> >> world's pre=eminent optical design engineer. It can tell you what's
> >> wrong with any product, just by looking at a photo, or someone else's
> >> description.

>
> >> --
> >> Peter

>
> >Optical engineering is different than mechanical engineering.

>
> Once again, who says? *Apart from you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eric Stevens


Oh dear...
 
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RichA
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      11-23-2011
On Nov 22, 1:38*pm, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> RichA <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >On Nov 22, 8:50*am, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> >> If it doesn't bend, it cannot work less smoothly.

>
> >> As I said, this is pure fantasy. *You are making the whole thing up.

>
> >There is a tolerance between a focusing sleeve and the inner sleeve it
> >rides on. That slack is taken up when pressure is applied to one
> >"side." *The pressure increases friction which increases focus
> >tension, which makes focusing less smooth.

>
> You have a problem, and it has nothing to do with the focusing ring
> nor the camera's lens mount. *The problem is something you perceive
> but it doesn't actually exist.
>
> If a lens is heavy enough to cause you concern about distorting the
> camera's lens mount, you should be taking care to support the lens. If
> a lens is heavy enough to cause you concern about distorting the
> camera's lens mount, it is likely to be a strongly made lens with a
> focusing ring that doesn't distort.
>
> If there is a problem with the focusing ring when you are using it to
> support the weight of the lens, then you shouldn't be using it to
> support the weight of the lens. *The lens should be supported by some
> other means - one that doesn't place stress on the focusing ring.
>
> There are no end of products available that enable heavy lenses to be
> properly supported without placing undue stress either on the camera's
> lens mount or on the zoom, focusing or aperture rings. *Use them, and
> you won't have a problem; in fact, you won't even have to imagine that
> there is a problem.


Well, a test for Joe Public (who does not buy large, manual focus
lenses) could be coming in the form of a 12-60mm f2.8-4 lens for
m4/3rds from Olympus in Dec. According to the rumor site.
 
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RichA
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      11-23-2011
On Nov 22, 8:50*am, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> RichA <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >On Nov 22, 7:03*am, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> Rich <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> >Eric Stevens <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> >> >news:(E-Mail Removed) :
> >> >> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:11:08 -0800 (PST), RichA <(E-Mail Removed)>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>>Kind of awkward, if you do it for a long time. My most comfortable
> >> >>>DSLR when used with any lens was the Olympus E-1, which allowed youto
> >> >>>(thanks to the deep grip) dangle it from the tips of your fingers if
> >> >>>you wanted. *Usually, with a normal sized DSLR (say a D300) you could
> >> >>>use all but the heaviest lenses by simply leveraging with the grip
> >> >>>(especially if you had an optional battery grip attached). *A 24-70mm
> >> >>>f2.8 was supportable in this way. *Beyond that, you need to support
> >> >>>the lens too.
> >> >>>However, the big difference when it comes to lens support is how much
> >> >>>weight are you taking? *With a m4/3rds body and a larger lens, you are
> >> >>>supporting almost all the lens and some of the camera weight when you
> >> >>>support the lens. *You actually are applying and upward pressure to
> >> >>>the lens (usually the focus ring) and this is somewhat questionableas
> >> >>>focusing rings are not meant to have unequal pressure applied to
> >> >>>them.

>
> >> >> Who says? Apart from you, that is.

>
> >> >The fact they don't turn as smoothly when you allow the weight of a lens
> >> >to press down pretty much proves it. *But feel free to experiment.

>
> >> So now you're imagining a lens that is heavy enough to distort the
> >> lens mount of a m4/3 camera body. but whose focusing ring is so flimsy
> >> that it bends.

>
> >> It's pure fantasy.

>
> >Doesn't have to bend. *Just has to have enough unequal pressure
> >applied to make it work less smoothly.

>
> If it doesn't bend, it cannot work less smoothly.
>
> As I said, this is pure fantasy. *You are making the whole thing up.


Then why do bearings wear out faster when loads become uneven?
 
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Bruce
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-23-2011
RichA <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On Nov 22, 8:50*am, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> RichA <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >On Nov 22, 7:03*am, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >> Rich <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >> >Eric Stevens <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>> >> >news:(E-Mail Removed) :
>> >> >> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:11:08 -0800 (PST), RichA <(E-Mail Removed)>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>>Kind of awkward, if you do it for a long time. My most comfortable
>> >> >>>DSLR when used with any lens was the Olympus E-1, which allowed you to
>> >> >>>(thanks to the deep grip) dangle it from the tips of your fingers if
>> >> >>>you wanted. *Usually, with a normal sized DSLR (say a D300) you could
>> >> >>>use all but the heaviest lenses by simply leveraging with the grip
>> >> >>>(especially if you had an optional battery grip attached). *A 24-70mm
>> >> >>>f2.8 was supportable in this way. *Beyond that, you need to support
>> >> >>>the lens too.
>> >> >>>However, the big difference when it comes to lens support is how much
>> >> >>>weight are you taking? *With a m4/3rds body and a larger lens, you are
>> >> >>>supporting almost all the lens and some of the camera weight when you
>> >> >>>support the lens. *You actually are applying and upward pressure to
>> >> >>>the lens (usually the focus ring) and this is somewhat questionable as
>> >> >>>focusing rings are not meant to have unequal pressure applied to
>> >> >>>them.

>>
>> >> >> Who says? Apart from you, that is.

>>
>> >> >The fact they don't turn as smoothly when you allow the weight of a lens
>> >> >to press down pretty much proves it. *But feel free to experiment.

>>
>> >> So now you're imagining a lens that is heavy enough to distort the
>> >> lens mount of a m4/3 camera body. but whose focusing ring is so flimsy
>> >> that it bends.

>>
>> >> It's pure fantasy.

>>
>> >Doesn't have to bend. *Just has to have enough unequal pressure
>> >applied to make it work less smoothly.

>>
>> If it doesn't bend, it cannot work less smoothly.
>>
>> As I said, this is pure fantasy. *You are making the whole thing up.

>
>Then why do bearings wear out faster when loads become uneven?



Why does the rain fall down from the sky towards the ground?

It's destiny.

 
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RichA
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-23-2011
On Nov 22, 10:25*pm, Eric Stevens <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:05:12 -0800 (PST), RichA <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Nov 22, 8:50*am, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> RichA <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> >On Nov 22, 7:03*am, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> >> Rich <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> >> >Eric Stevens <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> >> >> >news:(E-Mail Removed) :
> >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:11:08 -0800 (PST), RichA <(E-Mail Removed)>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>>Kind of awkward, if you do it for a long time. My most comfortable
> >> >> >>>DSLR when used with any lens was the Olympus E-1, which allowed you to
> >> >> >>>(thanks to the deep grip) dangle it from the tips of your fingers if
> >> >> >>>you wanted. *Usually, with a normal sized DSLR (say a D300) you could
> >> >> >>>use all but the heaviest lenses by simply leveraging with the grip
> >> >> >>>(especially if you had an optional battery grip attached). *A 24-70mm
> >> >> >>>f2.8 was supportable in this way. *Beyond that, you need to support
> >> >> >>>the lens too.
> >> >> >>>However, the big difference when it comes to lens support is howmuch
> >> >> >>>weight are you taking? *With a m4/3rds body and a larger lens,you are
> >> >> >>>supporting almost all the lens and some of the camera weight when you
> >> >> >>>support the lens. *You actually are applying and upward pressure to
> >> >> >>>the lens (usually the focus ring) and this is somewhat questionable as
> >> >> >>>focusing rings are not meant to have unequal pressure applied to
> >> >> >>>them.

>
> >> >> >> Who says? Apart from you, that is.

>
> >> >> >The fact they don't turn as smoothly when you allow the weight of a lens
> >> >> >to press down pretty much proves it. *But feel free to experiment.

>
> >> >> So now you're imagining a lens that is heavy enough to distort the
> >> >> lens mount of a m4/3 camera body. but whose focusing ring is so flimsy
> >> >> that it bends.

>
> >> >> It's pure fantasy.

>
> >> >Doesn't have to bend. *Just has to have enough unequal pressure
> >> >applied to make it work less smoothly.

>
> >> If it doesn't bend, it cannot work less smoothly.

>
> >> As I said, this is pure fantasy. *You are making the whole thing up.

>
> >Then why do bearings wear out faster when loads become uneven?

>
> They may or may not wear out faster, depending on circumstances.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eric Stevens


That's what uneven load means, a circumstance under which more wear
occurs because the load is no longer "averaged" over the entire
bearing surface and more force is applied to one sector of bearing or
the bearing race.
 
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RichA
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-23-2011
On Nov 22, 10:23*pm, Eric Stevens <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:55:59 -0800 (PST), RichA <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Nov 22, 4:13*pm, Eric Stevens <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 05:37:07 -0800 (PST), RichA <(E-Mail Removed)>
> >> wrote:

>
> >> >On Nov 22, 5:51*am, PeterN <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> >> On 11/22/2011 3:25 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:30:24 -0600, Rich<(E-Mail Removed)> *wrote:

>
> >> >> <snip>>

>
> >> >> >> The fact they don't turn as smoothly when you allow the weight of a lens
> >> >> >> to press down pretty much proves it. *But feel free to experiment.

>
> >> >> > It doesn't prove that "focusing rings are not meant to have unequal
> >> >> > pressure applied to them". All it does is prove that frictional forces
> >> >> > increase when you increase the forces applied to the focusing ring;
> >> >> > but I would expect that. It says nothing at all about whether or not
> >> >> > the focusing ring is designed to withstand any particular system of
> >> >> > forces.

>
> >> >> > Regards,

>
> >> >> > Eric Stevens

>
> >> >> Eric, I'm sure you realize you are contradicting the opinion of the
> >> >> world's pre=eminent optical design engineer. It can tell you what's
> >> >> wrong with any product, just by looking at a photo, or someone else's
> >> >> description.

>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Peter

>
> >> >Optical engineering is different than mechanical engineering.

>
> >> Once again, who says? *Apart from you.

>
> >Oh dear...

>
> Lenses are full of mechanical components. While mechanical engineers
> may not design the optics they are certainly required to design all
> the bits and pieces to support the optics and move them around.
>
> I'm surprised that you don't know that. But then, maybe I shouldn't
> be.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eric Stevens


If I hadn't know the differences (unless you think photons have lots
of mass and act on lenses like mechanical components act on each
other!) I wouldn't have differentiated them in the statement.
 
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RichA
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      11-23-2011
If you have something like an 80-200mm zoom f4, f2.8, mount it on a
DSLR and focus it.
Then, with an adapter, mount it on a m4/3rds (GF1/EP is better than a
G1/GH because the have almost no grip) camera and focus with it. If
you don't feel a stiffer focus effort with the micro 4/3rds due to the
greater weight being supported by the lens, you should get checked for
diabetes-induced loss of feeling in the extremities. The natural
tendency is to take some of the weight of the assembly by using the
full grip of the DSLR. This is something you can't do with the
m4/3rds bodies.
 
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RichA
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      11-23-2011
On Nov 23, 9:39*am, Bowser <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 05:55:26 -0800 (PST), RichA <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
> > If you have something like an 80-200mm zoom f4, f2.8, mount it on a
> >DSLR and focus it.
> >Then, with an adapter, mount it on a m4/3rds (GF1/EP is better than a
> >G1/GH because the have almost no grip) camera and focus with it. *If
> >you don't feel a stiffer focus effort with the micro 4/3rds due to the
> >greater weight being supported by the lens, you should get checked for
> >diabetes-induced loss of feeling in the extremities. The natural
> >tendency is to take some of the weight of the assembly by using the
> >full grip of the DSLR. *This is something you can't do with the
> >m4/3rds bodies.

>
> I've got a better idea. I'll take the steering wheel from my Prius,
> mount it in a Kenworth tractor pulling a full load of Sony NEX 7
> cameras, and see if the wheel feels different. I'm betting the
> Kenworth can't match the fuel economy of the Prius.


It's ok. The Prius can't plow a field.
 
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John Turco
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      12-22-2011
RichA wrote:

<heavily edited for brevity>

> Optical engineering is different than mechanical engineering.



"Optical engineering is different from mechanical engineering."

[There's no troll, like an illiterate troll!]

--
Cordially,
John Turco <(E-Mail Removed)>

Marie's Musings <http://fairiesandtails.blogspot.com>
 
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tony cooper
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      12-22-2011
On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 02:36:34 -0600, John Turco <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>RichA wrote:
>
><heavily edited for brevity>
>
>> Optical engineering is different than mechanical engineering.

>
>
>"Optical engineering is different from mechanical engineering."
>
>[There's no troll, like an illiterate troll!]


The use of "different than" is considered to be more acceptable in the
UK and by speakers influenced by UK English usage. Rich is Canadian,
so his usage is hardly a mark of illiteracy.

What bugs me more than a usage point like this is the erroneous use of
the term "illiterate". An illiterate person is unable to read or
write or reads and writes at a very basic level.

That comma in John's Winston-ad-evoking sentence is as misplaced and
unnecessary as most of Rich's posts.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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