«

On 09/22/2011 03:12 PM, none Yannick Tremblay wrote:
> In article<4e7aff26$0$283$>,
> DeMarcus<> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
>> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>>
>> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>>
>> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
>> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
>> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
>> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
>> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>>
>>
>> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find
>> any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
>>
>> Development Groundwork
>> or
>> Development Support
>>
>>
>> Or is there already a common name?
>
> Not a single term for all of them.
>
> I've seen Configuration Management used for Version Controlling and
> sometimes build system.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Configu...ion_management
>

True, however, Configuration Management focus on a /part/ of, let's call
it Development Support. Also, Configuration Management usually only
involves a few people per team.

> Unit Testing should be an integral part of development.
>
>

That's true, but as I mentioned in another post, if we don't separate
the things then these surrounding tasks (like TDD and documentation) are
easy seen as optional by many, and the lack of it may pass unseen until
it's too late. If we give it a name then we can just raise a hand and
ask the narrow-minded manager; shall we skip Development Support or
shall we continue using it? Then it becomes a bigger decision to take.

I'm just ventilating my ideas. Maybe this is not a real problem worth
chasing a naming convention for.

/Daniel

On 9/22/2011 2:25 AM, DeMarcus wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>
> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>
> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>
>
> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find
> any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
>
> Development Groundwork
> or
> Development Support
>
>
> Or is there already a common name?

Software Engineering

On 9/22/2011 11:51 AM, red floyd wrote:
> On 9/22/2011 2:25 AM, DeMarcus wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
>> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>>
>> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>>
>> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
>> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
>> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
>> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
>> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>>
>>
>> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find
>> any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
>>
>> Development Groundwork
>> or
>> Development Support
>>
>>
>> Or is there already a common name?
>
> Software Engineering
>

yes, although often Software Engineer is also used as a glorified term
for a Programmer (which doesn't necessarily imply doing things like
documentation or writing unit tests).


also fairly common is the "code and go" strategy, where one writes code,
basically verifies that it about works (via manual testing), and calls
it "good enough" until bugs or crashes start making an issue (then one
goes and debugs them).

if there are other people around, then usually they will be responsible
for doing this other stuff (the documentation person documents it, and
the tester tests it and reports bugs).

or, otherwise, it is a single-person project, where one has to
prioritize where they will invest their time, and where having good
documentation may be a much lower priority than "getting it done" or
"getting the next round of features added", ...

a Programmer may differ some from a Coder, where the former is
generally/often given the ability to think and write code independently
(they decide the best way to implement the requirements, ...), whereas a
Coder usually has all designs/specifications/... handed down "from
above", say: "here is a class diagram, list of functions and methods,
and behavioral descriptions. now go implement it." (in this case, the
Software Engineer is generally the person who writes up the stuff that
the coder goes and implements).

the differences can be subtle, and often the term "programmer" is used
in the same sense as "coder" above.


but, used in-sense, Software Engineer implies doing lots of design and
trying to make everything proper and similar (like, the whole "engineer"
part).


however, in my case, I mostly just claim to be a programmer.

although what I do does have some overlap with what would be considered
a software-engineers' area (being a lone developer, I deal with pretty
much everything), the primary goal remains that of getting things
implemented and working, ideally in a timely manner (and usually getting
things working "now" is a much higher priority than any future
maintainability).


or such...

On Sep 22, 5:25*am, DeMarcus <use_my_alias_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>
> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>
> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>
> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find
> any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
>
> Development Groundwork
> or
> Development Support
>
> Or is there already a common name?

Well:

"Software Engineering"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering

is the complete set. And "engineering" at least connotes robust/
reliable/solid etc which requires those "surrounding", as you put it,
practices. At it's core engineering is about eliminating or greatly
reducing human error in the application of science to control.

KHD

On 09/22/11 11:36 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-09-22, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 09/22/11 09:25 PM, DeMarcus wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
>>> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>>>
>>> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>>>
>>> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
>>> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
>>> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
>>> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
>>> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above?
>>
>> Pain.
>>
>> With the exception of Unit testing which is development.
>
> When they are painful, it's partly because people like us don't
> think they are important enough to do right, or they are "someone
> else's" problem, or something ...

Oh I do think they are important. In the last team I managed, my only
non-manger direct reports were the chaps who looked after the above
(less unit tests). "SCM Admins" we called them.

--
Ian Collins

On 09/22/2011 09:23 PM, BGB wrote:
> On 9/22/2011 11:51 AM, red floyd wrote:
>> On 9/22/2011 2:25 AM, DeMarcus wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
>>> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>>>
>>> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>>>
>>> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
>>> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
>>> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
>>> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
>>> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find
>>> any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
>>>
>>> Development Groundwork
>>> or
>>> Development Support
>>>
>>>
>>> Or is there already a common name?
>>
>> Software Engineering
>>
>
> yes, although often Software Engineer is also used as a glorified term
> for a Programmer (which doesn't necessarily imply doing things like
> documentation or writing unit tests).
>
>
> also fairly common is the "code and go" strategy, where one writes code,
> basically verifies that it about works (via manual testing), and calls
> it "good enough" until bugs or crashes start making an issue (then one
> goes and debugs them).
>
> if there are other people around, then usually they will be responsible
> for doing this other stuff (the documentation person documents it, and
> the tester tests it and reports bugs).
>
> or, otherwise, it is a single-person project, where one has to
> prioritize where they will invest their time, and where having good
> documentation may be a much lower priority than "getting it done" or
> "getting the next round of features added", ...
>
> a Programmer may differ some from a Coder, where the former is
> generally/often given the ability to think and write code independently
> (they decide the best way to implement the requirements, ...), whereas a
> Coder usually has all designs/specifications/... handed down "from
> above", say: "here is a class diagram, list of functions and methods,
> and behavioral descriptions. now go implement it." (in this case, the
> Software Engineer is generally the person who writes up the stuff that
> the coder goes and implements).
>
> the differences can be subtle, and often the term "programmer" is used
> in the same sense as "coder" above.
>
>
> but, used in-sense, Software Engineer implies doing lots of design and
> trying to make everything proper and similar (like, the whole "engineer"
> part).
>
>
> however, in my case, I mostly just claim to be a programmer.
>
> although what I do does have some overlap with what would be considered
> a software-engineers' area (being a lone developer, I deal with pretty
> much everything), the primary goal remains that of getting things
> implemented and working, ideally in a timely manner (and usually getting
> things working "now" is a much higher priority than any future
> maintainability).
>
>
> or such...

I like your definitions. How about this?

* Software Architect - Designs frameworks, communication and
dependencies in applications and between applications.

* Software Engineer - Designs specific modules in an application, often
specialized in some field like mathematics, protocols, or certain domain
specific knowledge.

* Coder - Implements specifications. Could be a person directly from school.


/ Daniel

Keith H Duggar wrote:

> Well:
>
> "Software Engineering"
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering
>
> is the complete set. And "engineering" at least connotes robust/
> reliable/solid etc which requires those "surrounding", as you put it,
> practices. At it's core engineering is about eliminating or greatly
> reducing human error in the application of science to control.

The field of engineering involves a considerable expectation of a safe and
defect-free product, to the point where engineers, when recognized as such,
are held civil and criminally liable for any problem which may arise from
their work. This is the main reason why civilized societies put
restrictions on who can and cannot label themselves an engineer (i.e.,
engineering licenses), and consequently who can be employed to positions
which require the level of expertise and responsibility which is expected
from an engineer.

The practice of software development does not have such responsibility nor
is a software developer held liable for any defect in their work.
Therefore, no professional license is required by society to perform this
job. This means that software development, although a highly technical
field, is not engineering, and those who are employed to churn out code
aren't engineers. And this is a good thing.


Rui Maciel

red floyd wrote:

>> Or is there already a common name?
>
> Software Engineering

Among the tasks which were pointed out, I fail to find a single task which
can be labelled as engineering. This means that, although some software
developers might wish to be labelled as engineers, that doesn't mean it's
true.

This reminds me how the so called "railroad engineers" are often used as a
reference of a professional practice which abuses the term "engineer" as a
form of grandstanding, while avoiding other terms which are more appropriate
to the task they actually perform such as "train operator" or "train
driver". The thing is, even though the so called "railroad engineers" are
clearly not engineers, their job actually requires a level of
responsibility, and therefore civil and criminal liability, far greater than
that which is required for a typical software developer job. Therefore, if
it doesn't make sense to label a "train operator" as an engineer then why
would it make sense to try to label a software developer as one?


Rui Maciel

On 09/23/11 10:11 PM, Rui Maciel wrote:
>
> The field of engineering involves a considerable expectation of a safe and
> defect-free product, to the point where engineers, when recognized as such,
> are held civil and criminally liable for any problem which may arise from
> their work. This is the main reason why civilized societies put
> restrictions on who can and cannot label themselves an engineer (i.e.,
> engineering licenses), and consequently who can be employed to positions
> which require the level of expertise and responsibility which is expected
> from an engineer.
>
> The practice of software development does not have such responsibility nor
> is a software developer held liable for any defect in their work.
> Therefore, no professional license is required by society to perform this
> job. This means that software development, although a highly technical
> field, is not engineering, and those who are employed to churn out code
> aren't engineers. And this is a good thing.

So those of us with Electronic Engineering degrees (including members of
professional bodies) aren't engineers either?

--
Ian Collins

Ian Collins wrote:

> So those of us with Electronic Engineering degrees (including members of
> professional bodies) aren't engineers either?

It really depends on what you are doing. Not everything a
civil/structural/mechanical/aeronautical/etc engineer does is engineering.

Nevertheless, the level of restrictions and assurances that a society
requires in order to grant someone the ability to exercise the practice of
"engineering" (i.e., the license), along with the civil and criminal
responsibility it imposes on those who practice it, is a good litmus test to
see if a field is in fact engineering.


Rui Maciel