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Re: an excellent read from the ACLU

 
 
John A.
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-20-2011
On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 08:07:21 -0500, "Pete Stavrakoglou"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"John A." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:21:16 -0500, "Pete Stavrakoglou"
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>"Trevor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>news:jcgokg$s4n$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>
>>>> "Pete Stavrakoglou" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:jcfgdr$b3g$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>
>>>>> We have a deficit problem in New York State for the same reason we have one
>>>>> as a nation. Our governments spend too much. Income is not the problem,
>>>>> spending is.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest a short course in economics so you can discover that income AND
>>>> expenditure are related. You would probably be the first to complain if the
>>>> government provided NO services at all!
>>>> In fact it's the rich who want a police force, fire department etc. far more
>>>> than the poor do
>>>
>>>No. The state has a spending problem. Is is that difficult to uinderstand
>>>that
>>>when you spend more than you earn you need to curb your spending?

>>
>> When the deficit comes after large tax cuts after there being a budget
>> surplus, it's not hard to understand that those cuts may be part of
>> the problem.

>
>Which tax cuts are you referring to? New legislation was just signed that will
>give the average family a few extra dollars a week to take home. That's the
>first income tax cut in about 50 years. So, which tax cuts are you referring
>to?


Wow. You just completely blanked out during the Bush administration
didn't you? (And every administration & congress for the last 50
years, for that matter.)
 
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PeterN
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      12-20-2011
On 12/19/2011 8:50 PM, David J. Littleboy wrote:
> "PeterN"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> My point was that as a matter of humanity, you can't let people starve.

>
> But letting people starve is _exactly_ what the right wing in the US wants
> to do. They feel that failure is the fault of the person, and that the state
> has no business taking care of people who fail. The right wing has no
> problem with tens of millions of people have no health insurance and not
> being able to get simple check ups and basic care. (On one of my recent
> trips to the US, I took my (uninsured in the US) eyes to my late father's
> opthamologist and got hit for US$200 (and didn't get told anything my
> Japanese opthamologist, for whom a similar office visit sets me back US$15
> or so, hasn't told me.)
>
>> It is a lot cheaper to give them welfare, than put them in jail.

>
> And it would be a lot cheaper to provide affordable medical care so that
> people could get their eyes checked instead of letting them go blind and
> having to provide state support. (Although I suppose the soulless rightards
> are right now working on cutting funding to agencies that provide services
> to the blind.)
>



Don't get me started.
In the US it is illegal for Medicare to negotiate rates for
pharmaceuticals. On two of my prescriptions, which I have been taking
for years, my co-pay has increased to about $300 per month. and a third
is now off the list.


--
Peter
 
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John A.
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      12-20-2011
On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:39:48 +1100, "Trevor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>"Robert Coe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> : > And where on earth did you get the idea that public sector employees
>> : > love flat taxes? I've been a public sector employee for almost 17
>> years,
>> : > and I can't remember the last time I heard one, other than a candidate
>> : > pandering to the Tea Party, advocate a flat tax.
>> :
>> : I said the highly paid public sector employees, ie. the fat cats making
>> : the taxation recommendations to politicians.
>> : Are YOU one of those?
>> : Obviously the lowly public sector employees have no say in the matter.
>>
>> Here's the quote, from Tony Cooper, to which you responded:
>>
>> "The government employees who do the buying are, themselves, taxpayers.
>> In fact, they are sharing the burden more than many since they are
>> employed - usually at rather good salaries - and paying income taxes,
>> property taxes, and taxes on purchases."

>
>That was already in response to what I wrote, and just like you tried to
>make a straw man out of misrepresnting it.
>
>
>
>> The government employees who do the buying are purchasing agents,
>> financial
>> analysts, etc. They are not the "fat cats" (almost none of whom are
>> government
>> employees) of which you speak. And very few of them are advocates of a
>> flat
>> tax.

>
>As I said, many of the taxation policy advisors are.


Lobbyists? Oh yeah. They're not government employees, though.
(Government employee employers, maybe.)

>> Me? I work for a City government as a computer system manager and
>> photographer. Is that lowly enough to let me off the hook?

>
>I never put you on it. What influence do YOU feel you have over taxation
>policy that you *would* be included?
>
>Trevor.
>


 
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Pete Stavrakoglou
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-20-2011
"John A." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 08:07:21 -0500, "Pete Stavrakoglou"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>"John A." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news(E-Mail Removed). ..
>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:21:16 -0500, "Pete Stavrakoglou"
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Trevor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>news:jcgokg$s4n$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Pete Stavrakoglou" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>> news:jcfgdr$b3g$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have a deficit problem in New York State for the same reason we have
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> as a nation. Our governments spend too much. Income is not the problem,
>>>>>> spending is.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest a short course in economics so you can discover that income AND
>>>>> expenditure are related. You would probably be the first to complain if
>>>>> the
>>>>> government provided NO services at all!
>>>>> In fact it's the rich who want a police force, fire department etc. far
>>>>> more
>>>>> than the poor do
>>>>
>>>>No. The state has a spending problem. Is is that difficult to uinderstand
>>>>that
>>>>when you spend more than you earn you need to curb your spending?
>>>
>>> When the deficit comes after large tax cuts after there being a budget
>>> surplus, it's not hard to understand that those cuts may be part of
>>> the problem.

>>
>>Which tax cuts are you referring to? New legislation was just signed that
>>will
>>give the average family a few extra dollars a week to take home. That's the
>>first income tax cut in about 50 years. So, which tax cuts are you referring
>>to?

>
> Wow. You just completely blanked out during the Bush administration
> didn't you? (And every administration & congress for the last 50
> years, for that matter.)


This part of the thread you referred to was the discussion about New York State.
I suggest you reread the exchange again.


 
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John A.
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-20-2011
On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:15:29 -0500, "Pete Stavrakoglou"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"John A." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 08:07:21 -0500, "Pete Stavrakoglou"
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>"John A." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>news(E-Mail Removed) ...
>>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:21:16 -0500, "Pete Stavrakoglou"
>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Trevor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>news:jcgokg$s4n$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Pete Stavrakoglou" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:jcfgdr$b3g$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have a deficit problem in New York State for the same reason we have
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> as a nation. Our governments spend too much. Income is not the problem,
>>>>>>> spending is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suggest a short course in economics so you can discover that income AND
>>>>>> expenditure are related. You would probably be the first to complain if
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> government provided NO services at all!
>>>>>> In fact it's the rich who want a police force, fire department etc. far
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> than the poor do
>>>>>
>>>>>No. The state has a spending problem. Is is that difficult to uinderstand
>>>>>that
>>>>>when you spend more than you earn you need to curb your spending?
>>>>
>>>> When the deficit comes after large tax cuts after there being a budget
>>>> surplus, it's not hard to understand that those cuts may be part of
>>>> the problem.
>>>
>>>Which tax cuts are you referring to? New legislation was just signed that
>>>will
>>>give the average family a few extra dollars a week to take home. That's the
>>>first income tax cut in about 50 years. So, which tax cuts are you referring
>>>to?

>>
>> Wow. You just completely blanked out during the Bush administration
>> didn't you? (And every administration & congress for the last 50
>> years, for that matter.)

>
>This part of the thread you referred to was the discussion about New York State.
>I suggest you reread the exchange again.


I was talking about federal.
 
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Trevor
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-21-2011

"Pete Stavrakoglou" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:jcq1o6$8pf$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Yes, but government doesn't earn, they confiscate. How much is enough?
> You know what it's like to live here in NY. After we payour income taxes,
> property taxes, and all the other miscellaneous fees and taxes 50% of what
> we earn is gone.


You certainly don't have to be rich in most countries for that to happen.
The REAL problem is whether you get your moneys worth. Some countries are
far better than the USA in that regard, although Australia is probably not
one of them

Trevor.


 
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Trevor
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-21-2011

"John A." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>As I said, many of the taxation policy advisors are.

>
> Lobbyists? Oh yeah. They're not government employees, though.
> (Government employee employers, maybe.)


NOT party lobbyists, government paid advisors, chief bureaucrats and
department heads.

Trevor.



 
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PeterN
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-21-2011
On 12/19/2011 9:58 PM, John A. wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:19:58 -0500, PeterN
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> On 12/19/2011 8:21 AM, Pete Stavrakoglou wrote:
>>> "Trevor"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:jcgokg$s4n$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>
>>>> "Pete Stavrakoglou"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:jcfgdr$b3g$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>
>>>>> We have a deficit problem in New York State for the same reason we have one
>>>>> as a nation. Our governments spend too much. Income is not the problem,
>>>>> spending is.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest a short course in economics so you can discover that income AND
>>>> expenditure are related. You would probably be the first to complain if the
>>>> government provided NO services at all!
>>>> In fact it's the rich who want a police force, fire department etc. far more
>>>> than the poor do
>>>
>>> No. The state has a spending problem. Is is that difficult to uinderstand that
>>> when you spend more than you earn you need to curb your spending?
>>>
>>>

>>
>> The other side of the coin is to earn more.

>
> Maybe there should be fees for commercial or industrial use of
> technology developed in government labs. That would raise revenue.



there are:
A portion of the profits from such commercial use is called.......



Hold your breath......


Taxes

--
Peter
 
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PeterN
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-21-2011
On 12/20/2011 9:22 PM, Trevor wrote:
> "John A."<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> As I said, many of the taxation policy advisors are.

>>
>> Lobbyists? Oh yeah. They're not government employees, though.
>> (Government employee employers, maybe.)

>
> NOT party lobbyists, government paid advisors, chief bureaucrats and
> department heads.
>
> Trevor.
>
>
>


The regulatory process consists of creating regulations that accomplish
their governmental goal, while allowing the entity room to exist. Except
of course where allowing the entity to exist would be against public policy.

--
Peter
 
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PeterN
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-21-2011
On 12/20/2011 8:07 AM, Pete Stavrakoglou wrote:
> "John A."<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:21:16 -0500, "Pete Stavrakoglou"
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> "Trevor"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:jcgokg$s4n$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>
>>>> "Pete Stavrakoglou"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:jcfgdr$b3g$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>
>>>>> We have a deficit problem in New York State for the same reason we have one
>>>>> as a nation. Our governments spend too much. Income is not the problem,
>>>>> spending is.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest a short course in economics so you can discover that income AND
>>>> expenditure are related. You would probably be the first to complain if the
>>>> government provided NO services at all!
>>>> In fact it's the rich who want a police force, fire department etc. far more
>>>> than the poor do
>>>
>>> No. The state has a spending problem. Is is that difficult to uinderstand
>>> that
>>> when you spend more than you earn you need to curb your spending?

>>
>> When the deficit comes after large tax cuts after there being a budget
>> surplus, it's not hard to understand that those cuts may be part of
>> the problem.

>
> Which tax cuts are you referring to? New legislation was just signed that will
> give the average family a few extra dollars a week to take home. That's the
> first income tax cut in about 50 years. So, which tax cuts are you referring
> to?
>
>

which legislation is that.

--
Peter
 
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