«

In article <j4k3ha$bbl$>,
, Bruce Sinclair
says...
>
> In article <>, Dave Doe <> wrote:
> >In article <yourname-1209111629180001@203-118-184-
> >229.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, , Your Name says...
> (snip)
>
> >> The point was it's more than it use to be because things have been changed
> >> with typical Microsoft non-sensical decisions, making it a lot more
> >> difficult and / or time-consuming to do something even reasonably simple.
> >
> >I can't agree at all with that. They've put the most commonly used
> >commands in easy reach!
>
> I completely disagree. Pretty much everything that's "within easy reach"
> now is cosmetic and about 'the look of it' rather than the reality IMO (font
> colours, formats etc) ... not the useful things at all. Ah well ... mileages
> vary.

Well if the default doesn't work for you - make your own! (ribbon
group). Put what *you* want in it.

--
Duncan.

In article <>,
, Dave Doe says...
>
> In article <j4k3ha$bbl$>,
> , Bruce Sinclair
> says...
> >
> > In article <>, Dave Doe <> wrote:
> > >In article <yourname-1209111629180001@203-118-184-
> > >229.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, , Your Name says...
> > (snip)
> >
> > >> The point was it's more than it use to be because things have been changed
> > >> with typical Microsoft non-sensical decisions, making it a lot more
> > >> difficult and / or time-consuming to do something even reasonably simple.
> > >
> > >I can't agree at all with that. They've put the most commonly used
> > >commands in easy reach!
> >
> > I completely disagree. Pretty much everything that's "within easy reach"
> > now is cosmetic and about 'the look of it' rather than the reality IMO (font
> > colours, formats etc) ... not the useful things at all. Ah well ... mileages
> > vary.
>
> Well if the default doesn't work for you - make your own! (ribbon
> group). Put what *you* want in it.

Here is an example...
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/dun...lipboard02.jpg

--
Duncan.

In article <>,
, Dave Doe says...
>
> In article <>,
> , Dave Doe says...
> >
> > In article <j4k3ha$bbl$>,
> > , Bruce Sinclair
> > says...
> > >
> > > In article <>, Dave Doe <> wrote:
> > > >In article <yourname-1209111629180001@203-118-184-
> > > >229.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, , Your Name says...
> > > (snip)
> > >
> > > >> The point was it's more than it use to be because things have been changed
> > > >> with typical Microsoft non-sensical decisions, making it a lot more
> > > >> difficult and / or time-consuming to do something even reasonably simple.
> > > >
> > > >I can't agree at all with that. They've put the most commonly used
> > > >commands in easy reach!
> > >
> > > I completely disagree. Pretty much everything that's "within easy reach"
> > > now is cosmetic and about 'the look of it' rather than the reality IMO (font
> > > colours, formats etc) ... not the useful things at all. Ah well ... mileages
> > > vary.
> >
> > Well if the default doesn't work for you - make your own! (ribbon
> > group). Put what *you* want in it.
>
> Here is an example...
> http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/dun...lipboard02.jpg

And just *one* click required.

--
Duncan.

In article <>, Dave
Doe <> wrote:
> In article <j4k3ha$bbl$>,
> , Bruce Sinclair
> says...
> > In article <>, Dave
> > Doe <> wrote:
> > >In article <yourname-1209111629180001@203-118-184-
> > >229.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, , Your Name says...
> > (snip)
> >
> > >> The point was it's more than it use to be because things have been
> > >> changed with typical Microsoft non-sensical decisions, making it a
> > >> lot more difficult and / or time-consuming to do something even
> > >> reasonably simple.
> > >
> > > I can't agree at all with that. They've put the most commonly used
> > > commands in easy reach!
> >
> > I completely disagree. Pretty much everything that's "within easy reach"
> > now is cosmetic and about 'the look of it' rather than the reality IMO
(font
> > colours, formats etc) ... not the useful things at all. Ah well ...
mileages
> > vary.
>
> Well if the default doesn't work for you - make your own! (ribbon
> group). Put what *you* want in it.

What I and many other people want is the previous sensible way of working
put back, or at least a easy way to revert it.

On 12/09/2011 6:28 p.m., Your Name wrote:

> What I and many other people want is the previous sensible way of working
> put back, or at least a easy way to revert it.

That would suit me.

In article <yourname-1209111828040001@203-118-184-
234.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, , Your Name says...
>
> In article <>, Dave
> Doe <> wrote:
> > In article <j4k3ha$bbl$>,
> > , Bruce Sinclair
> > says...
> > > In article <>, Dave
> > > Doe <> wrote:
> > > >In article <yourname-1209111629180001@203-118-184-
> > > >229.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, , Your Name says...
> > > (snip)
> > >
> > > >> The point was it's more than it use to be because things have been
> > > >> changed with typical Microsoft non-sensical decisions, making it a
> > > >> lot more difficult and / or time-consuming to do something even
> > > >> reasonably simple.
> > > >
> > > > I can't agree at all with that. They've put the most commonly used
> > > > commands in easy reach!
> > >
> > > I completely disagree. Pretty much everything that's "within easy reach"
> > > now is cosmetic and about 'the look of it' rather than the reality IMO
> (font
> > > colours, formats etc) ... not the useful things at all. Ah well ...
> mileages
> > > vary.
> >
> > Well if the default doesn't work for you - make your own! (ribbon
> > group). Put what *you* want in it.
>
> What I and many other people want is the previous sensible way of working
> put back, or at least a easy way to revert it.

Well you *are* a minority whether you believe it or not. And... if you
can remember all your old shortcuts (including Alt-key ones) - most of
them still work...

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/su...find-commands-
FX101851541.aspx

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/ex...-shortcuts-in-
excel-2010-HP010342494.aspx

I think the ribbon's great, a visual way of activating commands. File,
Edit, View, etc - drop down menus - they suck. Going back to that is a
bit like throwing away a GUI and going back to the command line.

I accept some people don't like change though, and yes, I appreciate
there are many like you. There are a heap of third party addins you can
use to get your old look and feel back - here's one example (free for
Home & Student editions only), google for more...
http://www.addintools.com/office2010...bar/index.html

--
Duncan.

In article <>, Dave
Doe <> wrote:

> In article <yourname-1209111828040001@203-118-184-
> 234.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, , Your Name says...
> >
> > In article <>, Dave
> > Doe <> wrote:
> > > In article <j4k3ha$bbl$>,
> > > , Bruce Sinclair
> > > says...
> > > > In article
<>, Dave
> > > > Doe <> wrote:
> > > > >In article <yourname-1209111629180001@203-118-184-
> > > > >229.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, , Your Name says...
> > > > (snip)
> > > >
> > > > >> The point was it's more than it use to be because things have been
> > > > >> changed with typical Microsoft non-sensical decisions, making it a
> > > > >> lot more difficult and / or time-consuming to do something even
> > > > >> reasonably simple.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can't agree at all with that. They've put the most commonly used
> > > > > commands in easy reach!
> > > >
> > > > I completely disagree. Pretty much everything that's "within easy
reach"
> > > > now is cosmetic and about 'the look of it' rather than the reality IMO
> > (font
> > > > colours, formats etc) ... not the useful things at all. Ah well ...
> > mileages
> > > > vary.
> > >
> > > Well if the default doesn't work for you - make your own! (ribbon
> > > group). Put what *you* want in it.
> >
> > What I and many other people want is the previous sensible way of working
> > put back, or at least a easy way to revert it.
>
> Well you *are* a minority whether you believe it or not.

Actually, I'm not. When the idiotic "ribbon" system was first released
their was a huge backlash. The problem is that Microsoft, as always, never
listens to anyone but themselves, so everyone has simply given up trying
to get them to change it back.

Thankfully Microsoft are flushing themselves down the toilet (although
still far too slowly) and people are realising that there are
alternatives, albeit not 100% comnpatible with Microsoft's over-bloated
options.


> And... if you
> can remember all your old shortcuts (including Alt-key ones) - most of
> them still work...

There aren't keyboard shortcuts to everything though.



> I think the ribbon's great, a visual way of activating commands. File,
> Edit, View, etc - drop down menus - they suck. Going back to that is a
> bit like throwing away a GUI and going back to the command line.

The Ribbon is a confused mess and barely usable with stuff in ridiculous
and hard-to-find place.

There was nothing wrong with the old toolbars, other than the fact that
many people were too much of a novice user or simply too stupid to display
the toolbars they needed.

But the Ribbon is not the only change, neither is the silly change to DocX
format files.

In article <>, Dave Doe <> wrote:
>In article <j4k3ha$bbl$>,
> , Bruce Sinclair
>says...
>> In article <>, Dave Doe
> <> wrote:
>> >In article <yourname-1209111629180001@203-118-184-
>> >229.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, , Your Name says...
>> (snip)
>> >> The point was it's more than it use to be because things have been changed
>> >> with typical Microsoft non-sensical decisions, making it a lot more
>> >> difficult and / or time-consuming to do something even reasonably simple.
>> >I can't agree at all with that. They've put the most commonly used
>> >commands in easy reach!
>>
>> I completely disagree. Pretty much everything that's "within easy reach"
>> now is cosmetic and about 'the look of it' rather than the reality IMO (font
>> colours, formats etc) ... not the useful things at all. Ah well ... mileages
>> vary.
>
>Well if the default doesn't work for you - make your own! (ribbon
>group). Put what *you* want in it.

I want the ribbon off - takes up too much useful workspace. Actually, I'd
settle for putting the useless thing down a side (like you used to be able
to do with tool bars) ... but that's apparently way too hard.

In article <>, Dave Doe <> wrote:
>In article <yourname-1209111828040001@203-118-184-
>234.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, , Your Name says...
>> In article <>, Dave
>> Doe <> wrote:
>> > In article <j4k3ha$bbl$>,
>> > , Bruce Sinclair
>> > says...
>> > > In article <>, Dave
>> > > Doe <> wrote:
>> > > >In article <yourname-1209111629180001@203-118-184-
>> > > >229.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, , Your Name says...
>> > > (snip)
>> > > >> The point was it's more than it use to be because things have been
>> > > >> changed with typical Microsoft non-sensical decisions, making it a
>> > > >> lot more difficult and / or time-consuming to do something even
>> > > >> reasonably simple.
>> > > > I can't agree at all with that. They've put the most commonly used
>> > > > commands in easy reach!
>> > > I completely disagree. Pretty much everything that's "within easy reach"
>> > > now is cosmetic and about 'the look of it' rather than the reality IMO
>> (font
>> > > colours, formats etc) ... not the useful things at all. Ah well ...
>> mileages
>> > > vary.
>> >
>> > Well if the default doesn't work for you - make your own! (ribbon
>> > group). Put what *you* want in it.
>>
>> What I and many other people want is the previous sensible way of working
>> put back, or at least a easy way to revert it.
>
>Well you *are* a minority whether you believe it or not. And... if you
>can remember all your old shortcuts (including Alt-key ones) - most of
>them still work...

You may well even believe that ... I don't. Very few people that I know
that are familiar with the previous tool bar system think the ribbon is
anything except fluff and marketing. It mostly causes aggravation.
It's a bit like a game that *looks* great ... but is still, when all is
done, an awful game.


>I think the ribbon's great, a visual way of activating commands. File,
>Edit, View, etc - drop down menus - they suck. Going back to that is a
>bit like throwing away a GUI and going back to the command line.

I disagree - again. All that was realy needed was a minor regrouping (eg so
that all the formatting commands were under 'formatting'). The ribbon is
(sadly) version 0.9 of a 'new look'. Sadly, like most version 0.9 things,
it's not good. Hell, you can't even move the things - why not ? Colour
choice for XL itself is limited to 3 bad choices ... again, why ? There's no
apparent logic to those simply bad design choices at all.


>I accept some people don't like change though, and yes, I appreciate
>there are many like you. There are a heap of third party addins you can
>use to get your old look and feel back - here's one example (free for
>Home & Student editions only), google for more...
>http://www.addintools.com/office2010...bar/index.html

It's not about change ... it's about change for the sake of it. When things
change, I like them to get better, not to become largely unuseable.

The uncharitable among us might suggest that MS has to change things to try
to sell more things. Is this a clever reason for doing so ? Of course not.

In article <>, Allistar <> wrote:
>Bruce Sinclair wrote:
(snip)
>
>With no disrespect intended, there are alternatives to MS Office. If you
>don't like it, why not try something different?

None taken ... and I made that choice a long time ago at home (around 2000
IIRC ?) hence my reference to having all the formating commands under
'formatting', but that choice is not yet available to me at work.