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MS Excel

 
 
Gib Bogle
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      09-11-2011
On 12/09/2011 9:51 a.m., Allistar wrote:
> Gib Bogle wrote:


> At the moment they're pretty much the same. I believe LibreOffice to be the
> better choice because I think it has a brighter future.
>
> And don't believe anyone that tells you it's fully compatible with
> proprietary formats such a .doc or .docx. It will open and save simple file
> in those formats with ease, but it disappoints when it comes to documents
> that have any kind of drawings or images in them.


I just installed LO and created a .xls with a chart. When I open it
with Excel I get a dire warning about how editing this file might harm
my computer. Heh. Might harm MS is more like it.
 
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Bruce Sinclair
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-11-2011
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (Your Name) wrote:
>In article <j4hoc0$7nn$(E-Mail Removed)>, Gib Bogle
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> When I bought a new machine a few months ago with 64-bit Windows 7, I
>> also bought a non-commercial copy of MS Office Home and Student 2010.
>> I've gradually become aware that some of the behaviours I'm used to with
>> Excel are not there any more. These are small things, but annoying.
>> E.g. I'm used to being able to enter a number into a cell then just hit
>> an arrow key to go the the next cell. This doesn't work any more. I
>> have to either hit Enter or click in the next cell. Another thing I
>> expect to be able to do is select the values in a column by clicking in
>> the top cell then holding the shift key down either use the Down arrow
>> or End + Down arrow (to go to the end). This doesn't work. The Down
>> arrow alone does nothing, while End selects everything on the screen
>> below and to the right of the starting cell.
>> Does this mean that MS Excel has changed the way it does things (which
>> would be brain-dead, IMO), or is this non-commercial version crippled?
>> Either way I'm not impressed, unless someone can point out something
>> that I'm missing.
>> Thanks!

>
>Unfortunately it' not just Excel. Microsoft have corrupted all their
>applications with the dumbed-down new versions and most people have been
>complaining about it since they were released (of course, being Microsoft,
>they're never going to listen to anyone else).
>None of the Office applications have been that good to use for years
>thanks to continual over-bloating, but now they're simply incredibly awful
>and cumbersome ... everything has been changed, moved, and hidden away in
>ridiculous places, so it takes even longer to do anything. Even something
>simple like getting a TExt Box now takes "15" clicks of the mouse instead
>of just one click in older versions.


The quick bar is your friend here (cos everything else isn't IMO ).
Put all the useful commands (ie things you do a few times every time) there
... it's about 1 screen width for me so works well.


 
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Dave Doe
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-11-2011
In article <yourname-1209110920050001@203-118-184-
101.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, (E-Mail Removed), Your Name says...
>
> In article <j4hoc0$7nn$(E-Mail Removed)>, Gib Bogle
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > When I bought a new machine a few months ago with 64-bit Windows 7, I
> > also bought a non-commercial copy of MS Office Home and Student 2010.
> > I've gradually become aware that some of the behaviours I'm used to with
> > Excel are not there any more. These are small things, but annoying.
> > E.g. I'm used to being able to enter a number into a cell then just hit
> > an arrow key to go the the next cell. This doesn't work any more. I
> > have to either hit Enter or click in the next cell. Another thing I
> > expect to be able to do is select the values in a column by clicking in
> > the top cell then holding the shift key down either use the Down arrow
> > or End + Down arrow (to go to the end). This doesn't work. The Down
> > arrow alone does nothing, while End selects everything on the screen
> > below and to the right of the starting cell.
> >
> > Does this mean that MS Excel has changed the way it does things (which
> > would be brain-dead, IMO), or is this non-commercial version crippled?
> > Either way I'm not impressed, unless someone can point out something
> > that I'm missing.
> >
> > Thanks!

>
> Unfortunately it' not just Excel. Microsoft have corrupted all their
> applications with the dumbed-down new versions and most people have been
> complaining about it since they were released (of course, being Microsoft,
> they're never going to listen to anyone else).
>
> None of the Office applications have been that good to use for years
> thanks to continual over-bloating, but now they're simply incredibly awful
> and cumbersome ... everything has been changed, moved, and hidden away in
> ridiculous places, so it takes even longer to do anything. Even something
> simple like getting a TExt Box now takes "15" clicks of the mouse instead
> of just one click in older versions.


Two clicks actually (Insert, Text Box). And it's certainly not
cumbersome and definately not slow (by comparision with say LibreOffice
- which is just horrendously slow to load up).

--
Duncan.
 
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Dave Doe
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-12-2011
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed), Allistar says...
>
> Dave Doe wrote:
>
> > In article <yourname-1209110920050001@203-118-184-
> > 101.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, (E-Mail Removed), Your Name says...
> >>
> >> In article <j4hoc0$7nn$(E-Mail Removed)>, Gib Bogle
> >> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>
> >> > When I bought a new machine a few months ago with 64-bit Windows 7, I
> >> > also bought a non-commercial copy of MS Office Home and Student 2010.
> >> > I've gradually become aware that some of the behaviours I'm used to
> >> > with
> >> > Excel are not there any more. These are small things, but annoying.
> >> > E.g. I'm used to being able to enter a number into a cell then just hit
> >> > an arrow key to go the the next cell. This doesn't work any more. I
> >> > have to either hit Enter or click in the next cell. Another thing I
> >> > expect to be able to do is select the values in a column by clicking
> >> > in the top cell then holding the shift key down either use the Down
> >> > arrow
> >> > or End + Down arrow (to go to the end). This doesn't work. The Down
> >> > arrow alone does nothing, while End selects everything on the screen
> >> > below and to the right of the starting cell.
> >> >
> >> > Does this mean that MS Excel has changed the way it does things (which
> >> > would be brain-dead, IMO), or is this non-commercial version crippled?
> >> > Either way I'm not impressed, unless someone can point out something
> >> > that I'm missing.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks!
> >>
> >> Unfortunately it' not just Excel. Microsoft have corrupted all their
> >> applications with the dumbed-down new versions and most people have been
> >> complaining about it since they were released (of course, being
> >> Microsoft, they're never going to listen to anyone else).
> >>
> >> None of the Office applications have been that good to use for years
> >> thanks to continual over-bloating, but now they're simply incredibly
> >> awful and cumbersome ... everything has been changed, moved, and hidden
> >> away in ridiculous places, so it takes even longer to do anything. Even
> >> something simple like getting a TExt Box now takes "15" clicks of the
> >> mouse instead
> >> of just one click in older versions.

> >
> > Two clicks actually (Insert, Text Box). And it's certainly not
> > cumbersome and definately not slow (by comparision with say LibreOffice
> > - which is just horrendously slow to load up).

>
> That's either platform/install dependant, or subjective. I get Calc and/or
> Writer to start in less than 2 seconds when I fire them up for the first
> time.


It's hard to tell on my PC with Excel - yer click the button, it's
there.

--
Duncan.
 
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Your Name
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-12-2011
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Gib Bogle wrote:
> > On 12/09/2011 9:20 a.m., Your Name wrote:
> >
> >> Unfortunately it' not just Excel. Microsoft have corrupted all their
> >> applications with the dumbed-down new versions and most people have been
> >> complaining about it since they were released (of course, being
> >> Microsoft, they're never going to listen to anyone else).
> >>
> >> None of the Office applications have been that good to use for years
> >> thanks to continual over-bloating, but now they're simply incredibly
> >> awful and cumbersome ... everything has been changed, moved, and hidden
> >> away in ridiculous places, so it takes even longer to do anything. Even
> >> something simple like getting a TExt Box now takes "15" clicks of the
> >> mouse instead
> >> of just one click in older versions.

> >
> > This is exactly my impression! It is infuriating. Apart from being
> > incredibly annoying, it also presents an interesting question from an
> > academic point of view: what is it that has happened at MS to create
> > this kind of devolution? The simplest explanation is that the need to
> > sell new versions of the software forces them to make changes, and after
> > the application has reached the stage of being very functional further
> > changes are likely to move it away from the optimum. Another
> > hypothesis: they have a good business going in teaching people how to
> > use this stuff.
> >
> > I'm starting to be tempted to follow Stephen's suggestion and try
> > LibreOffice or OpenOffice. Any opinions as to which is the better choice?

>
> At the moment they're pretty much the same. I believe LibreOffice to be the
> better choice because I think it has a brighter future.
>
> And don't believe anyone that tells you it's fully compatible with
> proprietary formats such a .doc or .docx. It will open and save simple file
> in those formats with ease, but it disappoints when it comes to documents
> that have any kind of drawings or images in them.


Yep, unfortunately the only way to be fully compatible with MS Office is
to buy MS Office ... and even then it's not 100% guaranteed thanks to
silly changes they make. I created a document for someone on my computer,
took it in to their workplace which has a newer version of Office and the
whole thing was a mess that I basically had to re-create.
 
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Your Name
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-12-2011
In article <(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, Dave
Doe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> In article <yourname-1209110920050001@203-118-184-
> 101.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, (E-Mail Removed), Your Name says...
> >
> > In article <j4hoc0$7nn$(E-Mail Removed)>, Gib Bogle
> > <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> > > When I bought a new machine a few months ago with 64-bit Windows 7, I
> > > also bought a non-commercial copy of MS Office Home and Student 2010.
> > > I've gradually become aware that some of the behaviours I'm used to with
> > > Excel are not there any more. These are small things, but annoying.
> > > E.g. I'm used to being able to enter a number into a cell then just hit
> > > an arrow key to go the the next cell. This doesn't work any more. I
> > > have to either hit Enter or click in the next cell. Another thing I
> > > expect to be able to do is select the values in a column by clicking in
> > > the top cell then holding the shift key down either use the Down arrow
> > > or End + Down arrow (to go to the end). This doesn't work. The Down
> > > arrow alone does nothing, while End selects everything on the screen
> > > below and to the right of the starting cell.
> > >
> > > Does this mean that MS Excel has changed the way it does things (which
> > > would be brain-dead, IMO), or is this non-commercial version crippled?
> > > Either way I'm not impressed, unless someone can point out something
> > > that I'm missing.
> > >
> > > Thanks!

> >
> > Unfortunately it' not just Excel. Microsoft have corrupted all their
> > applications with the dumbed-down new versions and most people have been
> > complaining about it since they were released (of course, being Microsoft,
> > they're never going to listen to anyone else).
> >
> > None of the Office applications have been that good to use for years
> > thanks to continual over-bloating, but now they're simply incredibly awful
> > and cumbersome ... everything has been changed, moved, and hidden away in
> > ridiculous places, so it takes even longer to do anything. Even something
> > simple like getting a TExt Box now takes "15" clicks of the mouse instead
> > of just one click in older versions.

>
> Two clicks actually (Insert, Text Box). And it's certainly not
> cumbersome and definately not slow (by comparision with say LibreOffice
> - which is just horrendously slow to load up).


Actually it's three clicks - first click the Insert tab, then click Text
Box, then choose the type of Text Box. That's still three times more than
one click needed in my old version. Plus some of the options are put in
non-sensical, hard-to-find/see places.

Of course, people will get used to the new version eventually ... and then
Microsoft will screw it up again.
 
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Dave Doe
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-12-2011
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed), Your Name says...
>
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, Dave
> Doe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > In article <yourname-1209110920050001@203-118-184-
> > 101.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, (E-Mail Removed), Your Name says...
> > >
> > > In article <j4hoc0$7nn$(E-Mail Removed)>, Gib Bogle
> > > <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > >
> > > > When I bought a new machine a few months ago with 64-bit Windows 7, I
> > > > also bought a non-commercial copy of MS Office Home and Student 2010.
> > > > I've gradually become aware that some of the behaviours I'm used to with
> > > > Excel are not there any more. These are small things, but annoying.
> > > > E.g. I'm used to being able to enter a number into a cell then just hit
> > > > an arrow key to go the the next cell. This doesn't work any more. I
> > > > have to either hit Enter or click in the next cell. Another thing I
> > > > expect to be able to do is select the values in a column by clicking in
> > > > the top cell then holding the shift key down either use the Down arrow
> > > > or End + Down arrow (to go to the end). This doesn't work. The Down
> > > > arrow alone does nothing, while End selects everything on the screen
> > > > below and to the right of the starting cell.
> > > >
> > > > Does this mean that MS Excel has changed the way it does things (which
> > > > would be brain-dead, IMO), or is this non-commercial version crippled?
> > > > Either way I'm not impressed, unless someone can point out something
> > > > that I'm missing.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Unfortunately it' not just Excel. Microsoft have corrupted all their
> > > applications with the dumbed-down new versions and most people have been
> > > complaining about it since they were released (of course, being Microsoft,
> > > they're never going to listen to anyone else).
> > >
> > > None of the Office applications have been that good to use for years
> > > thanks to continual over-bloating, but now they're simply incredibly awful
> > > and cumbersome ... everything has been changed, moved, and hidden away in
> > > ridiculous places, so it takes even longer to do anything. Even something
> > > simple like getting a TExt Box now takes "15" clicks of the mouse instead
> > > of just one click in older versions.

> >
> > Two clicks actually (Insert, Text Box). And it's certainly not
> > cumbersome and definately not slow (by comparision with say LibreOffice
> > - which is just horrendously slow to load up).

>
> Actually it's three clicks - first click the Insert tab, then click Text
> Box, then choose the type of Text Box. That's still three times more than
> one click needed in my old version. Plus some of the options are put in
> non-sensical, hard-to-find/see places.


No, you don't have to choose the type of text box - so it's two clicks -
a far cry from your orginal claim of "15" - even if it was a ****-take.

--
Duncan.
 
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Bruce Sinclair
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-12-2011
In article <(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, Dave Doe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>In article <yourname-1209111629180001@203-118-184-
>229.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, (E-Mail Removed), Your Name says...

(snip)

>> The point was it's more than it use to be because things have been changed
>> with typical Microsoft non-sensical decisions, making it a lot more
>> difficult and / or time-consuming to do something even reasonably simple.

>
>I can't agree at all with that. They've put the most commonly used
>commands in easy reach!


I completely disagree. Pretty much everything that's "within easy reach"
now is cosmetic and about 'the look of it' rather than the reality IMO (font
colours, formats etc) ... not the useful things at all. Ah well ... mileages
vary.


 
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Your Name
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-12-2011
In article <(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, Dave
Doe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> (E-Mail Removed), Your Name says...
> >
> > In article <(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, Dave
> > Doe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <yourname-1209110920050001@203-118-184-
> > > 101.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, (E-Mail Removed), Your Name says...
> > > >
> > > > In article <j4hoc0$7nn$(E-Mail Removed)>, Gib Bogle
> > > > <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > When I bought a new machine a few months ago with 64-bit Windows 7, I
> > > > > also bought a non-commercial copy of MS Office Home and Student 2010.
> > > > > I've gradually become aware that some of the behaviours I'm used

to with
> > > > > Excel are not there any more. These are small things, but annoying.
> > > > > E.g. I'm used to being able to enter a number into a cell then

just hit
> > > > > an arrow key to go the the next cell. This doesn't work any more. I
> > > > > have to either hit Enter or click in the next cell. Another thing I
> > > > > expect to be able to do is select the values in a column by

clicking in
> > > > > the top cell then holding the shift key down either use the Down

arrow
> > > > > or End + Down arrow (to go to the end). This doesn't work. The Down
> > > > > arrow alone does nothing, while End selects everything on the screen
> > > > > below and to the right of the starting cell.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does this mean that MS Excel has changed the way it does things

(which
> > > > > would be brain-dead, IMO), or is this non-commercial version

crippled?
> > > > > Either way I'm not impressed, unless someone can point out something
> > > > > that I'm missing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately it' not just Excel. Microsoft have corrupted all their
> > > > applications with the dumbed-down new versions and most people have been
> > > > complaining about it since they were released (of course, being

Microsoft,
> > > > they're never going to listen to anyone else).
> > > >
> > > > None of the Office applications have been that good to use for years
> > > > thanks to continual over-bloating, but now they're simply

incredibly awful
> > > > and cumbersome ... everything has been changed, moved, and hidden

away in
> > > > ridiculous places, so it takes even longer to do anything. Even

something
> > > > simple like getting a TExt Box now takes "15" clicks of the mouse

instead
> > > > of just one click in older versions.
> > >
> > > Two clicks actually (Insert, Text Box). And it's certainly not
> > > cumbersome and definately not slow (by comparision with say LibreOffice
> > > - which is just horrendously slow to load up).

> >
> > Actually it's three clicks - first click the Insert tab, then click Text
> > Box, then choose the type of Text Box. That's still three times more than
> > one click needed in my old version. Plus some of the options are put in
> > non-sensical, hard-to-find/see places.

>
> No, you don't have to choose the type of text box - so it's two clicks -
> a far cry from your orginal claim of "15" - even if it was a ****-take.


If you say so. :-\

The point was it's more than it use to be because things have been changed
with typical Microsoft non-sensical decisions, making it a lot more
difficult and / or time-consuming to do something even reasonably simple.
 
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Dave Doe
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-12-2011
In article <yourname-1209111629180001@203-118-184-
229.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, (E-Mail Removed), Your Name says...
>
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, Dave
> Doe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> > (E-Mail Removed), Your Name says...
> > >
> > > In article <(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, Dave
> > > Doe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article <yourname-1209110920050001@203-118-184-
> > > > 101.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, (E-Mail Removed), Your Name says...
> > > > >
> > > > > In article <j4hoc0$7nn$(E-Mail Removed)>, Gib Bogle
> > > > > <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > When I bought a new machine a few months ago with 64-bit Windows 7, I
> > > > > > also bought a non-commercial copy of MS Office Home and Student 2010.
> > > > > > I've gradually become aware that some of the behaviours I'm used

> to with
> > > > > > Excel are not there any more. These are small things, but annoying.
> > > > > > E.g. I'm used to being able to enter a number into a cell then

> just hit
> > > > > > an arrow key to go the the next cell. This doesn't work any more. I
> > > > > > have to either hit Enter or click in the next cell. Another thing I
> > > > > > expect to be able to do is select the values in a column by

> clicking in
> > > > > > the top cell then holding the shift key down either use the Down

> arrow
> > > > > > or End + Down arrow (to go to the end). This doesn't work. The Down
> > > > > > arrow alone does nothing, while End selects everything on the screen
> > > > > > below and to the right of the starting cell.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does this mean that MS Excel has changed the way it does things

> (which
> > > > > > would be brain-dead, IMO), or is this non-commercial version

> crippled?
> > > > > > Either way I'm not impressed, unless someone can point out something
> > > > > > that I'm missing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > >
> > > > > Unfortunately it' not just Excel. Microsoft have corrupted all their
> > > > > applications with the dumbed-down new versions and most people have been
> > > > > complaining about it since they were released (of course, being

> Microsoft,
> > > > > they're never going to listen to anyone else).
> > > > >
> > > > > None of the Office applications have been that good to use for years
> > > > > thanks to continual over-bloating, but now they're simply

> incredibly awful
> > > > > and cumbersome ... everything has been changed, moved, and hidden

> away in
> > > > > ridiculous places, so it takes even longer to do anything. Even

> something
> > > > > simple like getting a TExt Box now takes "15" clicks of the mouse

> instead
> > > > > of just one click in older versions.
> > > >
> > > > Two clicks actually (Insert, Text Box). And it's certainly not
> > > > cumbersome and definately not slow (by comparision with say LibreOffice
> > > > - which is just horrendously slow to load up).
> > >
> > > Actually it's three clicks - first click the Insert tab, then click Text
> > > Box, then choose the type of Text Box. That's still three times more than
> > > one click needed in my old version. Plus some of the options are put in
> > > non-sensical, hard-to-find/see places.

> >
> > No, you don't have to choose the type of text box - so it's two clicks -
> > a far cry from your orginal claim of "15" - even if it was a ****-take.

>
> If you say so. :-\
>
> The point was it's more than it use to be because things have been changed
> with typical Microsoft non-sensical decisions, making it a lot more
> difficult and / or time-consuming to do something even reasonably simple.


I can't agree at all with that. They've put the most commonly used
commands in easy reach!

--
Duncan.
 
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