Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Programming > Java > Java EE on tomcat?

Reply
Thread Tools

Java EE on tomcat?

 
 
Arne Vajhøj
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-22-2011
On 9/21/2011 10:41 PM, EricF wrote:
> In article<4e7a8166$0$281$(E-Mail Removed)>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On 9/21/2011 12:38 AM, EricF wrote:
>>> In article<4e77f29e$0$311$(E-Mail Removed)>,

>> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>> On 9/18/2011 6:30 PM, Torsten Kirschner wrote:
>>>>> Den 08.09.2011 23:41, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>>>>> On 9/8/2011 1:53 PM, nroberts wrote:
>>>>>>> If higher ups decided that I had to work with Tomcat...no JBoss or
>>>>>>> glassfish or anything...what limitations am I looking at? What parts
>>>>>>> of Java EE become unavailable to me?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tomcat is a web container only (Java EE Web Profile in
>>>>>> Java EE 6 terminology).
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> You don't have EJB, JCA, JTA, JMS etc..
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> Using the Spring Framework ( http://www.springsource.org/ ), one gets
>>>>> most of the above, except EJB, I guess. Add Hybernate and you're set.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think Spring has JCA.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think Spring provides JTA or JMS - it just allows to
>>>> interface other providers.
>>>>
>>>> It is Hibernate not Hybernate.
>>>>
>>>> Spring really does not provide much of the standards.

>>
>>> I do think Spring is nice but it doesn't try to provide the standards (JEE).
>>> When it first came out, it was a lot easier to use than much of the JEE

>> stack.
>>> These days JEE has been simplified.

>>
>> But to me it is difficult to see why go with a non-standard
>> solution exists when a standard solution exists that does the
>> same.
>>

> Arne, I certainly agree with your comment in general. Personally I like Java
> and many parts of JEE, but I'm not sure how "standard" Oracle solutions are.
> There are several JEE servers so there are a few options - Websphere,
> Weblogic, JBoss, Glassfish, ... I must be missing 1 or 2. But have you ever
> ported an EJB from 1 to the other? I have. Standard solutions just aren't that
> standard anymore.


Java EE is a standard. WAS, WL, JBoss etc. implements that standard.
Spring is a product that does not implement a standard.

If you have had to change anything other than server specific deployment
descriptors when moving between servers I will suspect the problem
is not in the standard but in the people in front of the keyboard.

Arne




 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Arne Vajhøj
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-23-2011
On 9/22/2011 1:23 PM, nroberts wrote:
> On Sep 21, 5:35 pm, Arne Vajhøj<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On 9/21/2011 11:45 AM, nroberts wrote:

>
>> You should do:
>>
>> requirements => technologies => infrastructure
>>
>> not the other way around.

>
> Yes.
>
>>
>> Start by finding out whether you need EJB or not.

>
> Which is impossible if you don't know what EJB does and what it
> provides extra to additional or alternative technologies.
>
>>> What is it that EJB offers me that I don't get with these other
>>> standard technologies? I thought it was things like SessionBeans and
>>> such, but if I use the CDI and JSF bits it seems like I get a lot of
>>> the same behavior because I've got @ManagedBean or @Named. I'm
>>> finding this confusing.

>>
>> I would consider:
>> - session beans and CDI orthogonal
>> - session beans and managed beans different

>
> In what way though?


Like Ford and Red being ortogonal and car and airplane
being different.

Arne
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Arne Vajhøj
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-23-2011
On 9/22/2011 5:08 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> On 11-09-21 11:41 PM, EricF wrote:
>> In article<4e7a8166$0$281$(E-Mail Removed)>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> On 9/21/2011 12:38 AM, EricF wrote:
>>>> In article<4e77f29e$0$311$(E-Mail Removed)>,

> [ SNIP ]
>
>>>
>>>> I do think Spring is nice but it doesn't try to provide the standards (JEE).
>>>> When it first came out, it was a lot easier to use than much of the JEE
>>> stack.
>>>> These days JEE has been simplified.
>>>
>>> But to me it is difficult to see why go with a non-standard
>>> solution exists when a standard solution exists that does the
>>> same.
>>>
>>>

>> Arne, I certainly agree with your comment in general. Personally I like Java
>> and many parts of JEE, but I'm not sure how "standard" Oracle solutions are.

>
> Pretty standard now. They own Glassfish, for example.
>
> Seriously, Oracle's been as standard as anyone else in the J2EE/Java EE
> world, in my experience, for quite some time.
>
>> There are several JEE servers so there are a few options - Websphere,
>> Weblogic, JBoss, Glassfish, ... I must be missing 1 or 2. But have you ever
>> ported an EJB from 1 to the other? I have. Standard solutions just aren't that
>> standard anymore.

>
> But with Java EE the progression has absolutely been from less
> standardization to more standardization. This has gone hand in hand with
> the rationalization/simplification of specifications.
>
> It's not been that long since EJBs meant ejb-jar.xml, and the server's
> own ejb-jar.xml companion configuration file, and doing explicit JNDI
> lookup. All of that - especially the JNDI - is what was exposing
> non-standardization. Not only are less things non-standard now, but the
> beauty of API specifications movement in the Java EE space has been that
> a lot of the non-standard bits have been hidden. Dependency injection
> has a lot to do with that.
>
>> The LAMP stack, JEE, Spring are all different ways to do similar things.
>> Options are nice.

>
> LAMP absolutely. Or write an HTTP server using node.js. Or operate in
> the ASP.NET MVC ecosystem. Options are essential.
>
> But Spring was only an option - a credible, useful option - for a brief
> window back when, during some period of J2EE 1.2-1.4. Recall that Spring
> emerged during J2EE 1.3, and really only matured during J2EE 1.4. *All*
> Spring 2.x releases happened after Java EE 5 was released. Basically
> Java EE 5 closed the lid on Spring, and Java EE 6 has hammered in the nails.
>
> My argument now is, if you're using Spring, most of the time there is a
> standard non-Spring way to do the same thing.


If Spring is only used for its original purpose DI and that feature
is used moderatly then it is not so bad.

But using everything Spring and use it all over a project usually
turns pretty ugly.

Arne






 
Reply With Quote
 
EricF
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-24-2011
In article <4e7bbb12$0$283$(E-Mail Removed)>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On 9/21/2011 10:41 PM, EricF wrote:
>> In article<4e7a8166$0$281$(E-Mail Removed)>,

> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> On 9/21/2011 12:38 AM, EricF wrote:
>>>> In article<4e77f29e$0$311$(E-Mail Removed)>,
>>> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>> On 9/18/2011 6:30 PM, Torsten Kirschner wrote:
>>>>>> Den 08.09.2011 23:41, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>>>>>> On 9/8/2011 1:53 PM, nroberts wrote:
>>>>>>>> If higher ups decided that I had to work with Tomcat...no JBoss or
>>>>>>>> glassfish or anything...what limitations am I looking at? What parts
>>>>>>>> of Java EE become unavailable to me?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tomcat is a web container only (Java EE Web Profile in
>>>>>>> Java EE 6 terminology).
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>> You don't have EJB, JCA, JTA, JMS etc..
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using the Spring Framework ( http://www.springsource.org/ ), one gets
>>>>>> most of the above, except EJB, I guess. Add Hybernate and you're set.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think Spring has JCA.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think Spring provides JTA or JMS - it just allows to
>>>>> interface other providers.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is Hibernate not Hybernate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spring really does not provide much of the standards.
>>>
>>>> I do think Spring is nice but it doesn't try to provide the standards

> (JEE).
>>>> When it first came out, it was a lot easier to use than much of the JEE
>>> stack.
>>>> These days JEE has been simplified.
>>>
>>> But to me it is difficult to see why go with a non-standard
>>> solution exists when a standard solution exists that does the
>>> same.
>>>

>> Arne, I certainly agree with your comment in general. Personally I like Java
>> and many parts of JEE, but I'm not sure how "standard" Oracle solutions are.
>> There are several JEE servers so there are a few options - Websphere,
>> Weblogic, JBoss, Glassfish, ... I must be missing 1 or 2. But have you ever
>> ported an EJB from 1 to the other? I have. Standard solutions just aren't

> that
>> standard anymore.

>
>Java EE is a standard. WAS, WL, JBoss etc. implements that standard.
>Spring is a product that does not implement a standard.
>
>If you have had to change anything other than server specific deployment
>descriptors when moving between servers I will suspect the problem
>is not in the standard but in the people in front of the keyboard.
>
>Arne
>


I was the people in front of the keyboard. The differences were mostly JNDI
related, specifying the datasource, etc. Not rocket science but painful if you
have to support an application on several app servers. There were some subtle
differences between Weblogic's JPA and Hibernate in JBoss. I wish I could
remember what they were. Injection made the process much easier, but it can't
be used everywhere.

Eric
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hot Requirements: 1.Sr Java Developer,2.Java Developer (Java with EJB) Isaac Java 0 01-20-2011 08:41 PM
hey i am just started java,, can anyone tell me the use ,application, why java , importance of java.. manish sahu Java 3 02-14-2008 12:00 AM
[JAVA] [EVALUATION] - The Java Failure (Sorry: The Java(tm) Failure) Ilias Lazaridis Java 0 02-01-2005 10:32 AM
JAVA VIRTUAL MUCHINE OR SUN JAVA Fernando Kohan Firefox 1 11-14-2004 02:04 AM
Job to convert Java App 1.3.1 to Java Newest of Java Michael Kintner Java 0 11-30-2003 04:42 AM



Advertisments