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Freeview, Otautahi, UHF...

 
 
Dave Doe
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      09-02-2011
In article <yourname-0209111532050001@203-118-184-
71.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed), Your Name says...
>
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, Dave
> Doe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > In article <yourname-0209110900380001@203-118-184-
> > 219.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, (E-Mail Removed), Your Name says...
> > >
> > > In article <(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, Dave
> > > Doe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is anything required for a Freeview setup given we have an UHF aerial
> > > > already pointing at the hill?
> > >
> > > A TV with built-in Freeview or an external Freeview set-top box. Depending
> > > on the signal quality you may also need to upgrade to a satellite dish
> > > instead.
> > >
> > > Plus, if you want to record shows you'll need either a new recorder with
> > > Freeview built-in or (if you also want to watch another channel while
> > > recording a second one) a second Freeview set-top box.
> > >
> > > It may be named "Freeview", but in reality it's "Expensiveview". One major
> > > reason for the switchover is simply to put more money in the Governments
> > > pockets via extra GST from sales of new equipment and then the sale of the
> > > old frequencies to mobile phone companies.

> >
> > Cheers for the feedback - all good points. I don't need much, I'm
> > buying it for my Mum. She's totally deaf (since age 7) and is now in
> > her 70's. She has a full Sky subscription, but very rarely watches it.
> > She needs Teletext for the future, and Sky doesn't have it (does it?).
> > Freeview, I think does. She has an old 4:3 CRT 29" TV w' Teletext - and
> > it's getting quite 'dark'. She has a DVD (also w' Telextext) and old
> > VCR recorder, but uses neither. The house has a UHF and old aerial and
> > satellite dish - and a splitter on the aerial in the ceiling (yeah I
> > climbed in and had a look). So I'm hoping the aerial will 'just work'.
> > I understand the terrestial reception is better than satellite
> > (confirmed by 'Me' too).

>
> You can get Teletext when watching via Sky, but from memory (I can't check
> right now) you have to be watching TV One or TV2, but not a Sky channel
> like UKTV - sometimes it does work, but doesn't update pages properly. The
> Teletext subtitles are specific to the channel you're watching, so you
> won't get sub-titles for Sky channels.
>
> DVD players don't have Teletext. Teletext is built into the TV, not the
> external devices ... I don't think you can record Teletext either (at
> least not easily).


Cheers, it might actually be the old VCR that has Teletext built into
it. Regardless, she currently gets T.Text off the TV. And yep, we know
it's only available on 1,2, and 3 - that's pretty much all she watches
anyway.

--
Duncan.
 
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Dave Doe
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      09-02-2011
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed), Frank Williams says...
>
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 22:22:06 +1200, Dave Doe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >Is anything required for a Freeview setup given we have an UHF aerial
> >already pointing at the hill?

>
>
>
> Yes but does Freeview come from the Hill.


Yes, of course it does.

--
Duncan.
 
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Dave Doe
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      09-02-2011
In article <(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>,
(E-Mail Removed), Dave Doe says...
>
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> (E-Mail Removed), Frank Williams says...
> >
> > On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 22:22:06 +1200, Dave Doe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> > >Is anything required for a Freeview setup given we have an UHF aerial
> > >already pointing at the hill?

> >
> >
> >
> > Yes but does Freeview come from the Hill.

>
> Yes, of course it does.


http://www.freeviewnz.tv/images/uplo...ndalone_Freevi
ew.pdf

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Duncan.
 
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Me
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      09-02-2011
On 2/09/2011 5:09 p.m., Dave Doe wrote:
> In article<(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>,
> (E-Mail Removed), Dave Doe says...
>>
>> In article<(E-Mail Removed) >,
>> (E-Mail Removed), Frank Williams says...
>>>
>>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 22:22:06 +1200, Dave Doe<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is anything required for a Freeview setup given we have an UHF aerial
>>>> already pointing at the hill?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes but does Freeview come from the Hill.

>>
>> Yes, of course it does.

>
> http://www.freeviewnz.tv/images/uplo...ndalone_Freevi
> ew.pdf
>

But the hill's shifted a bit - and so has the house probably.
I'm reminded to include the TV aerial in the next batch of eqc contents
claims.
 
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Richard
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      09-03-2011
On 9/2/2011 11:54 AM, Me wrote:
>
> Freeview seem to be trying to pack as much channel content into limited
> bandwidth they buy from the satellite service. Result is very heavy mpeg
> compression which looks horrible. It's not to do with signal strength.


Its much worse on freeview than sky satellite. Unwatchable IMO.

C4 has less bandwidth than the 8 hour mode on my old DVD recorder. the
other minor channels look really bad, 1/2/3 have their moments but often
have visible blocking particually when zooming in on things. MPEG2 has
just had its day and it shows when starved of capacity.
 
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Richard
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      09-03-2011
On 9/2/2011 3:32 PM, Your Name wrote:
> DVD players don't have Teletext. Teletext is built into the TV, not the
> external devices ... I don't think you can record Teletext either (at
> least not easily).
>
> We, in Auckland, have a Sky dish and standard decoder, and a TV with
> Freeview built-in (and a smaller TV that is still using the "normal" TV
> channels). I've never bothered to look, so I'm not sure whether the
> Freeview is using the dish or the antenna, but viewing via the Sky decoder
> is in 4:3 standard definition while via Freeview it's in widescreen (when
> possible) and higher definition.


Then set your skybox up correctly for the television if you are getting
4:3 out of it. All channels except a couple of useless ones and CNN are
in widescreen, if you are centrecutting you will be missing massive
amounts of content.
 
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Your Name
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      09-03-2011
In article <j3si5t$217$(E-Mail Removed)>, Richard <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On 9/2/2011 3:32 PM, Your Name wrote:
> > DVD players don't have Teletext. Teletext is built into the TV, not the
> > external devices ... I don't think you can record Teletext either (at
> > least not easily).
> >
> > We, in Auckland, have a Sky dish and standard decoder, and a TV with
> > Freeview built-in (and a smaller TV that is still using the "normal" TV
> > channels). I've never bothered to look, so I'm not sure whether the
> > Freeview is using the dish or the antenna, but viewing via the Sky decoder
> > is in 4:3 standard definition while via Freeview it's in widescreen (when
> > possible) and higher definition.

>
> Then set your skybox up correctly for the television if you are getting
> 4:3 out of it. All channels except a couple of useless ones and CNN are
> in widescreen, if you are centrecutting you will be missing massive
> amounts of content.


True, but then some of the content on Sky is old repeats which then run in
a square in the centre of the screen ... it's a personal preference as to
whether you want borders down each side, or a stretched or chopped image.

Even on the normal channels you still get the occasional advert or old
re-run that is in 4:3.

But you not "missing massive amounts of content". Although it's slowing
changing, most shows are still made to fit a 4:3 screen with little of
importance happening in the small amount of extra space on each side of a
widescreen.

In fact, in some cases it can be better since the 4:3 size (almost)
thankfully gets rid of the annoying and stupid channel's "ghost" logo -
UKTV being one example.
 
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Richard
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      09-05-2011
On 9/4/2011 10:10 AM, Your Name wrote:
> In article<j3si5t$217$(E-Mail Removed)>, Richard<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> On 9/2/2011 3:32 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>> DVD players don't have Teletext. Teletext is built into the TV, not the
>>> external devices ... I don't think you can record Teletext either (at
>>> least not easily).
>>>
>>> We, in Auckland, have a Sky dish and standard decoder, and a TV with
>>> Freeview built-in (and a smaller TV that is still using the "normal" TV
>>> channels). I've never bothered to look, so I'm not sure whether the
>>> Freeview is using the dish or the antenna, but viewing via the Sky decoder
>>> is in 4:3 standard definition while via Freeview it's in widescreen (when
>>> possible) and higher definition.

>>
>> Then set your skybox up correctly for the television if you are getting
>> 4:3 out of it. All channels except a couple of useless ones and CNN are
>> in widescreen, if you are centrecutting you will be missing massive
>> amounts of content.

>
> True, but then some of the content on Sky is old repeats which then run in
> a square in the centre of the screen ... it's a personal preference as to
> whether you want borders down each side, or a stretched or chopped image.
>
> Even on the normal channels you still get the occasional advert or old
> re-run that is in 4:3.


3 button presses to set it to centercut if needed, I seldom bother since
the 4:3 tv's I have running off the SD output have so much overscan that
there isnt a great deal of black borders around it when its on letterbox
and the channel has pillarboxing added.

> But you not "missing massive amounts of content". Although it's slowing
> changing, most shows are still made to fit a 4:3 screen with little of
> importance happening in the small amount of extra space on each side of a
> widescreen.


Only US sourced stuff since they still push it out in 4:3 for their non
HD services - widescreen SD never took off over there, and most people
there are so ignorant that they equate widescreen with HD

> In fact, in some cases it can be better since the 4:3 size (almost)
> thankfully gets rid of the annoying and stupid channel's "ghost" logo -
> UKTV being one example.


And half of people when there are 2 onscreen, and parts of sports scores
etc. The habit of pushing everything to the middle of the screen to
allow for centercutting is thankfully almost over.

Now if only the clowns at juice and 63 could play stuff out in the
correct aspect ratio and they would pillarbox the remnant 4:3 channels
like CNN, CNBC and whatever else, as mums stupid SD skybox cant do
pillarboxing of those channels to feed the widescreen tv so you are
stuck with fattovision when watching CNN.

The mysky is much better with its aspect handling. I dont get how they
can sell the service with the old boxes when they have no way to send a
4:3 channel to a widescreen TV and have it display correctly. Ironically
they do support letterboxing the normal wide channels onto an old 4:3
screen.
 
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Richard
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      09-05-2011
On 9/5/2011 9:55 PM, Me wrote:
> On 3/09/2011 6:38 p.m., Richard wrote:
>> On 9/2/2011 11:54 AM, Me wrote:
>>>
>>> Freeview seem to be trying to pack as much channel content into limited
>>> bandwidth they buy from the satellite service. Result is very heavy mpeg
>>> compression which looks horrible. It's not to do with signal strength.

>>
>> Its much worse on freeview than sky satellite. Unwatchable IMO.
>>
>> C4 has less bandwidth than the 8 hour mode on my old DVD recorder. the
>> other minor channels look really bad, 1/2/3 have their moments but often
>> have visible blocking particually when zooming in on things. MPEG2 has
>> just had its day and it shows when starved of capacity.

>
> Since posting this, Freeview satellite picture quality (TV1/2/3) seems
> to have improved drastically. Still some compression artifacts visible
> around static text when it first appears on screen, but not too bad.
> I wonder if they bought a bit more bandwidth prior to the RWC (TM).


They cant. Some idiot decided to run freeview sat on the same satellite
that sky have rights to almost all the available space, just to save
people money on a dish install. 2 halves of a transponder is all they
will ever have, no more.

Not sure if they were supposed to get more space before the total cockup
that D1 was, but IMO once it was clear that they didnt have the space
they should have moved freeview elsewhere. Perhaps there will at some
stage be a new freeview sat service based on another satellite with
capacity, perhaps HD etc too.

But for now no change of more bandwidth without abandoning the
exisisting installed base and moving to dvb-s2 and mpeg4. Which also
would be a good idea but all the whiners with cheap-as boxes would cry
at them being obsoleted so soon.
 
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Your Name
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      09-05-2011
In article <j41trq$3bh$(E-Mail Removed)>, Richard <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On 9/4/2011 10:10 AM, Your Name wrote:
> > In article<j3si5t$217$(E-Mail Removed)>, Richard<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> >> On 9/2/2011 3:32 PM, Your Name wrote:
> >>> DVD players don't have Teletext. Teletext is built into the TV, not the
> >>> external devices ... I don't think you can record Teletext either (at
> >>> least not easily).
> >>>
> >>> We, in Auckland, have a Sky dish and standard decoder, and a TV with
> >>> Freeview built-in (and a smaller TV that is still using the "normal" TV
> >>> channels). I've never bothered to look, so I'm not sure whether the
> >>> Freeview is using the dish or the antenna, but viewing via the Sky decoder
> >>> is in 4:3 standard definition while via Freeview it's in widescreen (when
> >>> possible) and higher definition.
> >>
> >> Then set your skybox up correctly for the television if you are getting
> >> 4:3 out of it. All channels except a couple of useless ones and CNN are
> >> in widescreen, if you are centrecutting you will be missing massive
> >> amounts of content.

> >
> > True, but then some of the content on Sky is old repeats which then run in
> > a square in the centre of the screen ... it's a personal preference as to
> > whether you want borders down each side, or a stretched or chopped image.
> >
> > Even on the normal channels you still get the occasional advert or old
> > re-run that is in 4:3.

>
> 3 button presses to set it to centercut if needed, I seldom bother since
> the 4:3 tv's I have running off the SD output have so much overscan that
> there isnt a great deal of black borders around it when its on letterbox
> and the channel has pillarboxing added.


On our TV there's quite a thick black border down each side. Besides
which, not everyone is technically minded enough or can be bothered to
keep switching the settings.




> > But you not "missing massive amounts of content". Although it's slowing
> > changing, most shows are still made to fit a 4:3 screen with little of
> > importance happening in the small amount of extra space on each side of a
> > widescreen.

>
> Only US sourced stuff since they still push it out in 4:3 for their non
> HD services - widescreen SD never took off over there, and most people
> there are so ignorant that they equate widescreen with HD
>
> > In fact, in some cases it can be better since the 4:3 size (almost)
> > thankfully gets rid of the annoying and stupid channel's "ghost" logo -
> > UKTV being one example.

>
> And half of people when there are 2 onscreen, and parts of sports scores
> etc. The habit of pushing everything to the middle of the screen to
> allow for centercutting is thankfully almost over.


Nobody here cares about sports anyway, and I've never noticed any real
problems with "two people being on-screen". As I said, most stuff is still
filmed with 4:3 in mind (and most movies are still filmed with that
smaller screen size in mind), and will be for quite some time yet - the
Government may be pushing their digital "Expensiveview", but at the same
time they're saying you can keep you old TV, so there will be lots of
people still using 4:3 TV sets here and lots of countries around the world
where they have no choice that makers want to sell their shows to.




> The mysky is much better with its aspect handling. I dont get how they
> can sell the service with the old boxes when they have no way to send a
> 4:3 channel to a widescreen TV and have it display correctly. Ironically
> they do support letterboxing the normal wide channels onto an old 4:3
> screen.


You can't make 4:3 fit widescreen "correctly" (whether that's old shows or
old broadcast format). You're stuck with either black borders or a
stretched image - you can't magically make up data that isn't there.
 
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