Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Computing > Digital Photography > Re: Taking Random Photos in Long Beach Can Put You in Handcuffs (Really)

Reply
Thread Tools

Re: Taking Random Photos in Long Beach Can Put You in Handcuffs (Really)

 
 
David Dyer-Bennet
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-26-2011
On Aug 26, 1:45*pm, tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> What if I were to say that software engineers are basically incapable
> of appreciating fine art, music, or literature? *Is that a fair
> statement about the members of the occupation? *It's certainly true
> about some, but is it a fair blanket statement? *That's what you are
> doing.


No, that is not what I'm doing.

This is probably the basis of our disagreement here.

I did not say that all police were incapable of
appreciating any of the finer things in life.

I said that police would, in general and just
like software engineers like me *and everybody
else with some other full-time job* not be
fully current with the artistic world, and that
therefore making rules based on the
aesthetic value of pictures that somebody
might be taking and expecting the police to
sort it out was a mistake.

I have not once, anywhere in this discussion,
said police were unable to do things that
didn't also apply to ME.

The issue is not any lack of artistic
sensitivity; it's a lack of *knowledge*,
which in turn is due to the simple fact
that, being police, they're not spending
their lives running an art gallery or being
a museum curator (or I could add researching
and teaching history of art at a university).

> Your "point" seems to be that you feel you are above being questioned
> in any way because you feel that you would not be doing anything
> wrong. *You don't seem to recognize that a policeman's point might be
> that he doesn't know what is on your mind and that his job is to
> determine that if he feels it necessary to do so.


I know too much about the police's choice
of people to stop and hassle for being "suspicious".
They are very, very bad at picking people who
are actually any kind of a risk, and I think they
should as a matter of public policy be strongly
discouraged from this approach to law enforcement.

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
David Dyer-Bennet
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-26-2011
On Aug 26, 2:23*pm, tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:33:19 -0700 (PDT), David Dyer-Bennet
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >It's "about" police officers only because the original
> >post that started this thread was suggesting that
> >the low artistic merit of the photos was part of the
> >reason for considering them suspicious.

>
> It did not. *"Artistic merit" was never mentioned.
>
> Not only did the article not mention "artistic merit", it said
> "If an officer sees someone taking pictures of something like a
> refinery, it is incumbent upon the officer to make contact with
> the individual."
>
> That says that the image doesn't even have to be seen by the officer,
> let alone judged for merit. *What prompts the officer to make contact
> is seeing the person apparently taking photographs of something like a
> refinery. *


And when questioned, that was explained
as being because they couldn't be of artistic value.
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
tony cooper
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-26-2011
On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:53:53 -0400, PeterN
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On 8/26/2011 2:51 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:34:17 -0700 (PDT), David Dyer-Bennet
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 25, 2:29 pm, PeterN<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>> On 8/25/2011 10:43 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> To answer you question directly, in that list, I see
>>>>> no basis to presume any particular level of artistic
>>>>> sensibility or knowledge in people of those
>>>>> professions. There are a few professions that
>>>>> actually require some artistic sensibilities --
>>>>> gallery manager, art museum curator, illustrator,
>>>>> artist, art director, and others. Most professions
>>>>> have no requirements, and generally I see no reason
>>>>> to expect artistic interest and knowledge to
>>>>> correlate with profession for people where it
>>>>> isn't a professional requirement.
>>>>
>>>> Most dentists I know have more artistic ability than the average bear.
>>>
>>> That seems believable.
>>>
>>> I remember one case of a dentist buying
>>> some art I liked at SF convention art shows, so
>>> at least that dentist didn't have tastes drastically
>>> different from mine .

>>
>> Yeah, and some dentists buy Thomas Kinkade pieces.
>>

>Sorry Tony.
>there is a parallel between the skills needed to do certain types of
>dentistry and artistic ability, including but not limited to sculpture.
>think about it. Is there not a certain amount of sculpturing involved in
>filling your tooth, although on a different scale?


My dentist may have some artistic ability in the chair, but the decor
on his office walls belies any general artistic sensibility. Cheap
prints cheaply framed. Motel stuff.

My doctor (GP), on the other hand, has a waiting room wall of very
good black and white photographs that he took while serving on an
aircraft carrier as a medical officer in the Reserves.

I just don't see a connection between occupation and artistic ability
with the exception of those in occupations where artistic ability is a
requirement for the job.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
Reply With Quote
 
tony cooper
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-26-2011
On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 13:11:46 -0700 (PDT), David Dyer-Bennet
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Aug 26, 2:23*pm, tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:33:19 -0700 (PDT), David Dyer-Bennet
>>
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >It's "about" police officers only because the original
>> >post that started this thread was suggesting that
>> >the low artistic merit of the photos was part of the
>> >reason for considering them suspicious.

>>
>> It did not. *"Artistic merit" was never mentioned.
>>
>> Not only did the article not mention "artistic merit", it said
>> "If an officer sees someone taking pictures of something like a
>> refinery, it is incumbent upon the officer to make contact with
>> the individual."
>>
>> That says that the image doesn't even have to be seen by the officer,
>> let alone judged for merit. *What prompts the officer to make contact
>> is seeing the person apparently taking photographs of something like a
>> refinery. *

>
>And when questioned, that was explained
>as being because they couldn't be of artistic value.


I don't understand that. Where are you getting that?


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
Reply With Quote
 
tony cooper
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-26-2011
On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 13:10:26 -0700 (PDT), David Dyer-Bennet
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>The issue is not any lack of artistic
>sensitivity; it's a lack of *knowledge*,
>which in turn is due to the simple fact
>that, being police, they're not spending
>their lives running an art gallery or being
>a museum curator (or I could add researching
>and teaching history of art at a university).


The article doesn't say anything about the need for the policeman to
have knowledge of art or what is artistic. It says if they see
someone photographing a scene like an oil refinery, that they should
make contact.

Make contact, not assess the photograph from a knowledgeable art
critic's point of view. Seeing the image is not necessarily part of
the contact.


>> Your "point" seems to be that you feel you are above being questioned
>> in any way because you feel that you would not be doing anything
>> wrong. *You don't seem to recognize that a policeman's point might be
>> that he doesn't know what is on your mind and that his job is to
>> determine that if he feels it necessary to do so.

>
>I know too much about the police's choice
>of people to stop and hassle for being "suspicious".
>They are very, very bad at picking people who
>are actually any kind of a risk, and I think they
>should as a matter of public policy be strongly
>discouraged from this approach to law enforcement.


Yeah. Policemen shouldn't stop anyone until they actually observe a
crime in progress. A lot of car break-ins in your neighborhood?
Don't allow the police to question anyone lurking around the cars
until they smash out a window.

That works until it's *your* that gets broken into and you start
complaining that the police aren't doing their job of crime
prevention.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
Reply With Quote
 
PeterN
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-26-2011
On 8/26/2011 4:42 PM, tony cooper wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:53:53 -0400, PeterN
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> On 8/26/2011 2:51 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:34:17 -0700 (PDT), David Dyer-Bennet
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Aug 25, 2:29 pm, PeterN<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>> On 8/25/2011 10:43 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> To answer you question directly, in that list, I see
>>>>>> no basis to presume any particular level of artistic
>>>>>> sensibility or knowledge in people of those
>>>>>> professions. There are a few professions that
>>>>>> actually require some artistic sensibilities --
>>>>>> gallery manager, art museum curator, illustrator,
>>>>>> artist, art director, and others. Most professions
>>>>>> have no requirements, and generally I see no reason
>>>>>> to expect artistic interest and knowledge to
>>>>>> correlate with profession for people where it
>>>>>> isn't a professional requirement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most dentists I know have more artistic ability than the average bear.
>>>>
>>>> That seems believable.
>>>>
>>>> I remember one case of a dentist buying
>>>> some art I liked at SF convention art shows, so
>>>> at least that dentist didn't have tastes drastically
>>>> different from mine .
>>>
>>> Yeah, and some dentists buy Thomas Kinkade pieces.
>>>

>> Sorry Tony.
>> there is a parallel between the skills needed to do certain types of
>> dentistry and artistic ability, including but not limited to sculpture.
>> think about it. Is there not a certain amount of sculpturing involved in
>> filling your tooth, although on a different scale?

>
> My dentist may have some artistic ability in the chair, but the decor
> on his office walls belies any general artistic sensibility. Cheap
> prints cheaply framed. Motel stuff.
>
> My doctor (GP), on the other hand, has a waiting room wall of very
> good black and white photographs that he took while serving on an
> aircraft carrier as a medical officer in the Reserves.
>


There are exceptions. Also, please note that I did not make a
generalization about all dentists. Your dentist my indeed have decent
artistic taste, but my be too cheap to purchase it for his office.



> I just don't see a connection between occupation and artistic ability
> with the exception of those in occupations where artistic ability is a
> requirement for the job.
>
>

There are other occupations that benefit from creative thinking,
although artistic ability may not be a direct requirement. I gave
dentistry as an example.
If my statement precluded other members of the health care profession, I
am not aware of it. Some doctors in my CC are ;quite good. Others simply
enjoy their hobby.

As I pointed out, artistic ability may very well be a function of the
right hemisphere of the brain.

--
Peter
 
Reply With Quote
 
tony cooper
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-27-2011
On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 21:00:46 -0500, Allen <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On 8/26/2011 3:42 PM, tony cooper wrote:
><snip>
>> My dentist may have some artistic ability in the chair, but the decor
>> on his office walls belies any general artistic sensibility. Cheap
>> prints cheaply framed. Motel stuff.
>>
>> My doctor (GP), on the other hand, has a waiting room wall of very
>> good black and white photographs that he took while serving on an
>> aircraft carrier as a medical officer in the Reserves.
>>
>> I just don't see a connection between occupation and artistic ability
>> with the exception of those in occupations where artistic ability is a
>> requirement for the job.
>>

>My dentist has a eautiful wild flower photo in one torture
>chamber--oops! make that treatment room and a mrdi gras music poster
>inthe other. My primary care doctor has mardi gras pictures in both
>treatment rooms and a print by a local artist that features a vagina if
>you look at it


You sure you just don't have dirty mind?

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
Reply With Quote
 
PeterN
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-27-2011
On 8/26/2011 10:00 PM, Allen wrote:
> On 8/26/2011 3:42 PM, tony cooper wrote:
> <snip>
>> My dentist may have some artistic ability in the chair, but the decor
>> on his office walls belies any general artistic sensibility. Cheap
>> prints cheaply framed. Motel stuff.
>>
>> My doctor (GP), on the other hand, has a waiting room wall of very
>> good black and white photographs that he took while serving on an
>> aircraft carrier as a medical officer in the Reserves.
>>
>> I just don't see a connection between occupation and artistic ability
>> with the exception of those in occupations where artistic ability is a
>> requirement for the job.
>>

> My dentist has a eautiful wild flower photo in one torture
> chamber--oops! make that treatment room and a mrdi gras music poster
> inthe other. My primary care doctor has mardi gras pictures in both
> treatment rooms and a print by a local artist that features a vagina if
> you look at it with an open mind in his waiting room--shared by a female
> doctor, who I suspect is really responsible for its presence.
> Allen


It's a bad idea to interpret a Rorschach image as your parents having sex.

--
Peter
 
Reply With Quote
 
Gordon Freeman
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-28-2011
> On Aug 24, 10:08 am, "Jeff Strickland" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> I'm not certain of the context here, but let's, for the moment,
>> suppose that an oil storage yard might actually be a viable target of
>> those that bring the war on terror to our shores once again. In the
>> advance of such a progression, let's say that the bad guys come
>> around and take pictures of tanks and the proximity they are to the
>> fence line, or the position of valves and pipelines.

>
>> These sorts of pictures have no aesthetic value, and the tanks,
>> valves, and pipes are not incidental images in a larger, more
>> panoramic scene that the photographer is attempting to capture.


Actually Edward Weston used to take exactly this type of photograph,
often making compositions from industrial pipework, factory buildings,
close-ups of machinery, etc. Some people reckon his work had aesthetic
value.

 
Reply With Quote
 
David Dyer-Bennet
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-29-2011
On Aug 26, 3:42*pm, tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I just don't see a connection between occupation and artistic ability
> with the exception of those in occupations where artistic ability is a
> requirement for the job.


Yes! That, exactly, precisely, is what I said in the first place!
That, with the exception of a few professions which absolutely
require you to be able to judge art, it's not something you
can expect to find in the members of some given profession.

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Math.random() and Math.round(Math.random()) and Math.floor(Math.random()*2) VK Javascript 15 05-02-2010 03:43 PM
Having compilation error: no match for call to (const __gnu_cxx::hash<long long int>) (const long long int&) veryhotsausage C++ 1 07-04-2008 05:41 PM
random.random(), random not defined!? globalrev Python 4 04-20-2008 08:12 AM
Windows defense handcuffs good guys Au79 Computer Support 0 08-15-2006 02:19 AM
Misc mountain photos and beach sunrise photos beachpirate2 Digital Photography 1 11-12-2003 04:41 PM



Advertisments