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I'm a programmer thinking of developing a website for a friend but I
know nothing about developing websites.

Can anyone recommend some software for this, preferably free or
inexpensive, that runs on Windows. If it runs on the Mac as well that
would be great, but not essential, as I run Windows and my friend has
a MAC.

Also, what software does a typical pro website developer use - do all
complex websites use PHP?

TIA

On 27/07/11 12:03, nospam wrote:
>
> I'm a programmer thinking of developing a website for a friend but I
> know nothing about developing websites.
>
> Can anyone recommend some software for this, preferably free or
> inexpensive, that runs on Windows. If it runs on the Mac as well that
> would be great, but not essential, as I run Windows and my friend has
> a MAC.
>
> Also, what software does a typical pro website developer use - do all
> complex websites use PHP?
>
Look at something like Drupal or Joomla. Most hosters provide one or the
other. The DESIGN is the important thing in a Web site. Sticking the
site up is the easy part and involves no programming.

In my opinion designers should not build web site and neither should
developers. Specialist web developers should build web site based on a
sound design. Programmers should only be involved for a very few 'whizzy
bits'. In particular, you should steer away from "Flash developers" who
frequently ruin a decent site.

Cheers,

Cliff

--

The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

The end excuses any evil - Sophocles

On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:03:30 +1200, nospam <>
wrote:

>I'm a programmer thinking of developing a website for a friend but I
>know nothing about developing websites.
>
>Can anyone recommend some software for this, preferably free or
>inexpensive, that runs on Windows. If it runs on the Mac as well that
>would be great, but not essential, as I run Windows and my friend has
>a MAC.
>
>Also, what software does a typical pro website developer use - do all
>complex websites use PHP?
>
>TIA

If you need a host for your site:
I have never used them but you could look at
247hosting.co.nz/

I currently use this host in the USA
www. hostgator.com

For an HTML editor have a look at
http://www.coffeecup.com/free-editor/

At a cost they provide design templates you might or might not find
useful. They also have an add-on that allows you to implement some
simple flash if you really want it.

You can use php combined with javascript to access a MySQL database
which can be set up using phpMyAdmin. Use ajax techniques within the
javascript to provide smooth data updating within the viewed page.

Macromedia, now owned by Adobe, have an expensive web development
suite that includes Dreamweaver which is a more elaborate html editor
than coffeecup pro. The suite also includes a flash editor.

But it is perhaps best to avoid flash. Amongst other drawbacks it
does not run on an iPad. It strikes me that the sort of people likely
to be impressed by flash on a website are also the sort of people
likely to be using an iPad these days.
HTML5 increasingly provides an alternative to flash.

On 2011-07-27, <> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:03:30 +1200, nospam <>
> wrote:
>
>>I'm a programmer thinking of developing a website for a friend but I
>>know nothing about developing websites.
>>
>>Can anyone recommend some software for this, preferably free or
>>inexpensive, that runs on Windows. If it runs on the Mac as well that
>>would be great, but not essential, as I run Windows and my friend has
>>a MAC.
>>
>>Also, what software does a typical pro website developer use - do all
>>complex websites use PHP?
>>
>>TIA
>
> If you need a host for your site:
> I have never used them but you could look at
> 247hosting.co.nz/
>

As senn on TV, Fair Go, last week

In article <>, ,
Gordon says...
>
> On 2011-07-27, <> wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:03:30 +1200, nospam <>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>I'm a programmer thinking of developing a website for a friend but I
> >>know nothing about developing websites.
> >>
> >>Can anyone recommend some software for this, preferably free or
> >>inexpensive, that runs on Windows. If it runs on the Mac as well that
> >>would be great, but not essential, as I run Windows and my friend has
> >>a MAC.
> >>
> >>Also, what software does a typical pro website developer use - do all
> >>complex websites use PHP?
> >>
> >>TIA
> >
> > If you need a host for your site:
> > I have never used them but you could look at
> > 247hosting.co.nz/
> >
>
> As senn on TV, Fair Go, last week

Can you elaborate a bit more please Gordon? - C(heers)IA.

--
Duncan.

On Jul 27, 7:47*pm, EMB <emb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 27/07/2011 12:03 p.m., nospam wrote:
>
> > I'm a programmer thinking of developing a website for a friend but I
> > know nothing about developing websites.
>
> > Can anyone recommend some software for this, preferably free or
> > inexpensive, that runs on Windows. *If it runs on the Mac as well that
> > would be great, but not essential, as I run Windows and my friend has
> > a MAC.
>
> > Also, what software does a typical pro website developer use *- do all
> > complex websites use PHP?
>
> > TIA
>
> Notepad++ and write it in HTML - you're a developer so use those skills.

You say you are a programmer, so PHP is probably a good choice (It is
open source, so free). Basically you can do almost anything in PHP,
and it will run on any OS. CMS Systems (e.g. Joomla, Magnolia et al)
are great for simple sites, but tend to be a bit limited when it comes
to doing things that require databases and interactive forms. As a
Java programmer, I would be keen to use Java rather than PHP, but the
hosting services charge a premium for hosting something like Liferay
portal. As a result, the two sites I maintain use PHP.

I agree with the previous poster's "design being the key" comments. I
have worked with a couple of design experts, and it is rewarding to
see the great results you can acheive when there is a collaboration
between artistic ability and technical expertise (unfortunately these
two don't tend to come in the same cranium).

So, as a programmer, I would suggest:

- HTML for a site that just displays a few pretty pages
- PHP for a moderate to complex site
- Liferay or a similar Java Portal product if you are going to allow
users to have accounts, have personal pages, contribute to bloggs
etc.
- Java JSP or MS ASP.NET for complex custom sites. JSP is free (e.g
Apache & Tomcat), but ASP is a custom Microsoft product. There is a
steep learning curve for both.

PHP is very well supported. The Eclipse IDE has a reasonably good
plugin, and a number of open-source editors are available. PHP will
run on Windows or Linux (Just install the Apache web server and turn
on PHP), and I think on the MAC. Nearly all hosting services offer the
LAMP stack (Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP). Any experience with LAMP
looks good on your CV I recently purchased a huge tome on PHP +
MySQL for $NZ60 - recommended!

Keep in mind that once you master HTML and CSS, the associated
implementation technology (e.g. PHP or JSP) is a smaller learning
curve.

Before you start, set expectations - do you need online payments? user
accounts?, blogs? How much can you afford a month? How much traffic?
Will the site expand? The answer to these questions will affect your
choice of technology and hosting service. Changing technology mid-
stream is the computing equivalent of emptying bedpans for a job, so
is best avoided.

Good luck

Regards

Ron

On 28 Jul 2011 05:01:57 GMT, Gordon <> wrote:

>> If you need a host for your site:
>> I have never used them but you could look at
>> 247hosting.co.nz/
>>
>
>As senn on TV, Fair Go, last week

Thanks for that Gordon.
I had been thinking of trying them.
Here is the link to see it:
http://tvnz.co.nz/fair-go/july-20-43...eo?vid=4316034

On 28/07/11 19:45, Ron McNulty wrote:
> On Jul 27, 7:47 pm, EMB<emb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 27/07/2011 12:03 p.m., nospam wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a programmer thinking of developing a website for a friend
>>> but I know nothing about developing websites.
>>
>>> Can anyone recommend some software for this, preferably free or
>>> inexpensive, that runs on Windows. If it runs on the Mac as well
>>> that would be great, but not essential, as I run Windows and my
>>> friend has a MAC.
>>
>>> Also, what software does a typical pro website developer use -
>>> do all complex websites use PHP?
>>
>>> TIA
>>
>> Notepad++ and write it in HTML - you're a developer so use those
>> skills.
>
> You say you are a programmer, so PHP is probably a good choice (It
> is open source, so free). Basically you can do almost anything in
> PHP, and it will run on any OS. CMS Systems (e.g. Joomla, Magnolia et
> al) are great for simple sites, but tend to be a bit limited when it
> comes to doing things that require databases and interactive forms.
> As a Java programmer, I would be keen to use Java rather than PHP,
> but the hosting services charge a premium for hosting something like
> Liferay portal. As a result, the two sites I maintain use PHP.
>
I totally disagree. The form handling in most CMSes is superb. Database
access is likewise superb. I've not looked at Joomla, but am more
familiar with Drupal. If you want a *professional* site, those are the
way to go. Or Kenticos or similar if you want a Windows platform. Any
supposed limitations are because of the misunderstanding of the tool.
It's difficult to find a serious site that doesn't use some form of
underlying CMS. I would urge you strongly not to 'redefine the wheel'
and try to build your own.
>
> I agree with the previous poster's "design being the key" comments.
> I have worked with a couple of design experts, and it is rewarding
> to see the great results you can acheive when there is a
> collaboration between artistic ability and technical expertise
> (unfortunately these two don't tend to come in the same cranium).
>
Never, in my experience.
>
> So, as a programmer, I would suggest:
>
> - HTML for a site that just displays a few pretty pages - PHP for a
> moderate to complex site - Liferay or a similar Java Portal product
> if you are going to allow users to have accounts, have personal
> pages, contribute to bloggs etc. - Java JSP or MS ASP.NET for complex
> custom sites. JSP is free (e.g Apache& Tomcat), but ASP is a custom
> Microsoft product. There is a steep learning curve for both.
>
DON'T build your own from scratch. There are now any number of
frameworks, platforms, CMS, call them what you will. Use one of those.
>
> PHP is very well supported. The Eclipse IDE has a reasonably good
> plugin, and a number of open-source editors are available. PHP will
> run on Windows or Linux (Just install the Apache web server and turn
> on PHP), and I think on the MAC. Nearly all hosting services offer
> the LAMP stack (Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP). Any experience with
> LAMP looks good on your CV I recently purchased a huge tome on PHP
> + MySQL for $NZ60 - recommended!
>
> Keep in mind that once you master HTML and CSS, the associated
> implementation technology (e.g. PHP or JSP) is a smaller learning
> curve.
>
Don't bother. A decent CMS will provide the platform without the need
for knowledge of the details. HTML and CSS are all you need. A little
PHP will be good but most of it will be cut and paste stuff.
>
> Before you start, set expectations - do you need online payments?
> user accounts?, blogs? How much can you afford a month? How much
> traffic? Will the site expand? The answer to these questions will
> affect your choice of technology and hosting service. Changing
> technology mid- stream is the computing equivalent of emptying
> bedpans for a job, so is best avoided.
>
Most CMSes will have modules or plugins for this stuff. It's not an issue.

Cheers,

Cliff

--

The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

The end excuses any evil - Sophocles

>I totally disagree. The form handling in most CMSes is superb. Database
>access is likewise superb. I've not looked at Joomla, but am more
>familiar with Drupal. If you want a *professional* site, those are the
>way to go. Or Kenticos or similar if you want a Windows platform. Any
>supposed limitations are because of the misunderstanding of the tool.
>It's difficult to find a serious site that doesn't use some form of
>underlying CMS. I would urge you strongly not to 'redefine the wheel'
>and try to build your own.


I had been put off using a CMS some years ago when I had a lot of
hassles with WordPress, but after reading your opinion I have now
looked into both Drupal and Joomla. The Joomla video tutorials are
some of the very best I have come across. Given the clarity of these
tutorials I would suggest that the OP take the Joomla route and
choose a host that allows him to do so.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:04:31 +1200, wrote:

>
>>I totally disagree. The form handling in most CMSes is superb. Database
>>access is likewise superb. I've not looked at Joomla, but am more
>>familiar with Drupal. If you want a *professional* site, those are the
>>way to go. Or Kenticos or similar if you want a Windows platform. Any
>>supposed limitations are because of the misunderstanding of the tool.
>>It's difficult to find a serious site that doesn't use some form of
>>underlying CMS. I would urge you strongly not to 'redefine the wheel'
>>and try to build your own.
>
>
> I had been put off using a CMS some years ago when I had a lot of
>hassles with WordPress, but after reading your opinion I have now
>looked into both Drupal and Joomla. The Joomla video tutorials are
>some of the very best I have come across. Given the clarity of these
>tutorials I would suggest that the OP take the Joomla route and
>choose a host that allows him to do so.
>

I'll look at those tutorials, thanks. Coffeecup that you mentioned
looked interesting though. I guess a CMS would be better because it
would useful if my friend could maintain the website himself instead
of depending on other people.