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In article <j0602t$cin$>, PeeCee <> wrote:
>On 20/07/2011 12:48 a.m., Peter Huebner wrote:
>> In article<who->, r
>> says...
>>>
>>> Mind you, what was wrong with the Eton Tables eh... bugger this
>>> technology lark, calculators be damned.
>>>
>>
>> Right you are. When and where I went to school we weren't allowed calculators
>> in math classes or tests. For a damn good reason. You wouldn't believe how
>> often I run into people here in NZ who can't add two 3-digit numbers together
>> without searching for their calculator first, and then they're surprised when
>> my wife or I have already put the correct change on the counter before
> they've
>> even begun to type the numbers in. Not to mention that I've severally had to
>> pull people up because I knew the right result and they had typed it in
> wrong.
>>
>> I consider that as a fairly pathetic failure of the education system. I love
>> technology and I love gadgets, no Luddite here, but I also believe that kids
>> should have to learn some basic skills and fundamental knowledge.
> Copy-pasting
>> Wiki articles on your ipad or lappy or whatever for work assignments is often
>> not learning stuff nor furthering understanding on the whole ... it's just
>> getting lazy, in many cases "supporting" teachers who don't even understand
> the
>> matter they're supposed to teach (and I am speaking from an inside viewpoint
>> here) by taking the load off them to actually present the material in a
>> didactic manner.
>
>
>Had to look that word "Didactic" up.
>Came up with this one via Google:
>
><quote>
>In the manner of a teacher, particularly so as to treat someone in a
>patronizing way
> - slow-paced, didactic lecturing
></quote>
>
>Fully agree with your comments.
>Have felt for many years Teachers should not be licensed to 'teach' till
>they have spent at least half their working life actually working in
>their chosen disciplines.
>
>That way younger members of society will gain a more practical
>appreciation of how things work in real life, and older members can make
>a valuable contribution when they can no longer physically keep up in
>their professions.
>Those of us that are 'older' will well remember the previous attempts to
>standardise on teaching computers in NZ schools.
>The name 'Poly' comes to mind.

I remember also the BBC and slightly more upmarket archimedes (IIRC ?) ?


>My pick is the Headmaster concerned has no mentor to gently point out
>that this type of 'standardisation' has been tried before and found wanting.
>The cynic in me says the the Headmaster is following the demands of a
>fan boy and doesn't have the practical knowledge to discern the
>impracticalities and dead ends mono cultures end in.

The 'big problem' identified on the TV interview seemed to be the battery
life. Seems to me that if you plug the things in, that "problem" goes away.
Yet another case of trying to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist
perhaps ?

To be fair, you could buy a laptop or an ipad. Yes, the ipad was
recommended. Perhaps the real question here should be ... if education is
supposed to be free, shouldn't schools have computers instead of kids ?

In article <1k4ppzy.1mr0sea1cy9n08N%>, (David Empson) wrote:

(snip)
>The principal was interviewed on Campbell Live last night. She said
>Apple Inc was not involved in any way. In fact, she said the iPad was
>only their preferred choice because it had sufficient battery life to
>last for the entire school day, while other devices might need to be
>recharged during the day. The student could use any other tablet,
>netbook or notebook.
>
>I wonder how this might tie in with specific software requirements in
>future - if there are particular applications the student needs to be
>able to run, that might restrict the platforms they can use to ones on
>which those applications exist.
>
>Managing a classroom with mixed platforms could be somewhat of a
>headache.

The case for open formats and cross platform s/w has rarely been made so
simply and eloquently.

In article <>, Allistar <> wrote:
(snip)
>> One has to wonder if a certain company, has had anything to do with this
>
>Or companies, plural. To activate, sync and backup an iPad you must have a
>computer running OSX or Windows. So people with a PC at home running some
>other OS (like Linux) will be up the creek.

... or more likely, be well able to come up with a better solution and avaid
the problem ?

Allistar <> wrote:

> Gordon wrote:
>
> > On 2011-07-19, Peter Gutmann <> wrote:
> >>
> >> A friend of mine (whose kids go there) just alerted me to the fact that
> >> Orewa College is recommending that parents buy "iPad laptops" [sic] for
> >> their year nine kids, including flexi-rent for parents who are struggling
> >> to put food on the table.
> >>
> >> Gosh, I wonder what's going to happen when they're required to type up a
> >> homework assignment on their shiny new "iPad laptop"? Still, at least
> >> they'll be able to check on each other's Facebook pages during class.
> >>
> >
> > One has to wonder if a certain company, has had anything to do with this
>
> Or companies, plural. To activate, sync and backup an iPad you must have a
> computer running OSX or Windows.

Not after iOS 5 is released (later this year, and the school requirement
doesn't kick in until next year). iOS 5 will allow an iPad to activate
itself, do firmware updates without assistance from a computer, and
backup important data to Apple's free iCloud service.

In principle, after that you won't _have_ to use iTunes on Mac/Windows
for managing an iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, but you might still want to
do that for some tasks, and particularly for syncing media from your
computer which was not sourced from the iTunes Store.

It wouldn't surprise me if you still need iTunes to do a restore or
other emergency maintenance on an iOS device, but you could do those
sort of occasional tasks on a friend's computer if you don't have a
suitable one yourself.

> So people with a PC at home running some other OS (like Linux) will be up
> the creek.

Even with iOS 5, you would still be up the creek as far as calendar and
contact sync are concerned, but OK for most other tasks.

--
David Empson

On 7/21/2011 11:16 AM, Bruce Sinclair wrote:
> In article<j06oc8$qch$>, "Geopelia"<> wrote:
>> "Gordon"<> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> On 2011-07-19, Geopelia<> wrote:
>>>> When I started school in 1934 the ballpoint pen wasn't invented.
>>>
>>> it was very close though. Biro, the person, was about to make it happen
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballpoint_pen
>>>
>>> the patent for it was in 1888. like prestressed concrete or the working
>>> Diesel engine. The theory had to wait until technology caught up.
>
>>>> Pencils,
>>>> nibs and inkwells were used in those days, even the good old slates were
>>>> still around in some small schools.
>>> Like paper, the pencil is still with us. It rules when it comes to writing
>
> As a chemist, I love pencils. For an example of why, take a piece of paper
> with 'ink writing' on it and tip some solvent on it. Doesn't really matter
> what. In moments, you are likely to have a blurry multicoloured
> unreadable smudge. repeat with pencil writing.
>
>
>>>> How many people doing their IR3 this year could do the bit where they had
>>>> to
>>>> multiply something by .19xxx (I don't remember the last three numbers)?
>>>> I bet there was a rush for the calculators.
>>>> Yes, I did it without one.
>>> Tell us Geo, can you work out the sqaure root of a number by hand? It can
>>> be
>>> done. My Mother (How MS is that?), used to be able to give it a go.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methods...g_square_roots
>>> Drop down a wee bit
>> Yes, I learnt that in school, but I'm not sure if I can remember it now. It
>> was a bit like long division, using pairs of numbers.
>> Finding the square root of 2 in the examples in that website was the method
>> we used, but without all that algebra stuff on the right.
>> I don't have any reason to need square roots these days.
>>
>> Cube roots would baffle me though. That is the sort of things that
>> calculators make easy.
>
> .. actually ... slide rules are pretty good at doing that sort of thing
> too. You do have to how to use them of course (anyone ? ) ... but the
> multiplication method is basically adding logs. A square root is log/2; cube
> root log/3 ... etc.
>
> Easier than long hand

Brilliant analog devices. I still have a couple stashed away, for the
amusement of mathematically-minded grandchildren (if I ever have any).
My father used to challenge his calculator-equipped students to a
calculation race and beat them with his little pocket slide rule. Only
good for about three significant figures, of course.

On , , Wed, 20 Jul 2011 23:02:51 GMT, Re: iPad nonsense at Orewa College,
(Bruce Sinclair) wrote:

>In article <j03nsl$lcf$>, EMB <> wrote:
>>On 19/07/2011 10:45 p.m., Peter Gutmann wrote:
>>
>>(if they need one at all)
>>
>>And there is the crux of the matter - the case for secondary students
>>needing a laptop/iPad/whatever is pretty weak. Pen and paper imparts
>>writing, spelling and presentation skills that the etch-a-sketch never will.
>
>.. *and* they still work during a power cut

I have inverters and generators if that happens. <G>

--
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France.

"Bruce Sinclair" < > wrote
in message news:j07r50$6fj$...
> In article <j06oc8$qch$>, "Geopelia" <>
> wrote:
>>"Gordon" <> wrote in message
>>news:...
>>> On 2011-07-19, Geopelia <> wrote:
>>>> When I started school in 1934 the ballpoint pen wasn't invented.
>>>
>>> it was very close though. Biro, the person, was about to make it happen
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballpoint_pen
>>>
>>> the patent for it was in 1888. like prestressed concrete or the working
>>> Diesel engine. The theory had to wait until technology caught up.
>
>>>> Pencils,
>>>> nibs and inkwells were used in those days, even the good old slates
>>>> were
>>>> still around in some small schools.
>>> Like paper, the pencil is still with us. It rules when it comes to
>>> writing
>
> As a chemist, I love pencils. For an example of why, take a piece of paper
> with 'ink writing' on it and tip some solvent on it. Doesn't really matter
> what. In moments, you are likely to have a blurry multicoloured
> unreadable smudge. repeat with pencil writing.
>
>
>>>> How many people doing their IR3 this year could do the bit where they
>>>> had
>>>> to
>>>> multiply something by .19xxx (I don't remember the last three numbers)?
>>>> I bet there was a rush for the calculators.
>>>> Yes, I did it without one.
>>> Tell us Geo, can you work out the sqaure root of a number by hand? It
>>> can
>>> be
>>> done. My Mother (How MS is that?), used to be able to give it a go.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methods...g_square_roots
>>> Drop down a wee bit
>>Yes, I learnt that in school, but I'm not sure if I can remember it now.
>>It
>>was a bit like long division, using pairs of numbers.
>>Finding the square root of 2 in the examples in that website was the
>>method
>>we used, but without all that algebra stuff on the right.
>>I don't have any reason to need square roots these days.
>>
>>Cube roots would baffle me though. That is the sort of things that
>>calculators make easy.
>
> .. actually ... slide rules are pretty good at doing that sort of thing
> too. You do have to how to use them of course (anyone ? ) ... but the
> multiplication method is basically adding logs. A square root is log/2;
> cube
> root log/3 ... etc.
>
> Easier than long hand
>

We used logs in the army. But carrying a book of log tables might be more of
a nuisance than carrying a small calculator.

"Bruce Sinclair" < > wrote
in message news:j07qbb$6fj$...
> In article <j03nsl$lcf$>, EMB <> wrote:
>>On 19/07/2011 10:45 p.m., Peter Gutmann wrote:
>>
>>(if they need one at all)
>>
>>And there is the crux of the matter - the case for secondary students
>>needing a laptop/iPad/whatever is pretty weak. Pen and paper imparts
>>writing, spelling and presentation skills that the etch-a-sketch never
>>will.
>
> .. *and* they still work during a power cut
>

The old fashioned nib still makes the most beautiful writing.

Somewhere on teh intarwebs David Empson wrote:
> Gordon <> wrote:
>> On 2011-07-19, Peter Gutmann <> wrote:
[snip]
>> One has to wonder if a certain company, has had anything to do with
>> this
>
> The principal was interviewed on Campbell Live last night. She said
> Apple Inc was not involved in any way......

Then she drove away in her iCar.....
--
Shaun.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

Somewhere on teh intarwebs Bruce Sinclair wrote:
> In article <j0602t$cin$>, PeeCee
> <> wrote:
[snip]
>> My pick is the Headmaster concerned has no mentor to gently point out
>> that this type of 'standardisation' has been tried before and found
>> wanting. The cynic in me says the the Headmaster is following the
>> demands of a
>> fan boy and doesn't have the practical knowledge to discern the
>> impracticalities and dead ends mono cultures end in.
>
> The 'big problem' identified on the TV interview seemed to be the
> battery life. Seems to me that if you plug the things in, that
> "problem" goes away. Yet another case of trying to solve a problem
> that doesn't actually exist perhaps ?

I didn't see the TV interview or read the article. However, don't iPads
(like every other iXxx) have non-removable batteries? I mean, my T60 only
has a four hour battery life but I have three batteries.....

> To be fair, you could buy a laptop or an ipad. Yes, the ipad was
> recommended.

AIUI not only recommended but the school will fund a student into one. Will
they also do that if the student wants a ThinkPad? If not then there's a lot
more going on than merely suggesting an iPad due to battery life.

> Perhaps the real question here should be ... if
> education is supposed to be free, shouldn't schools have computers
> instead of kids ?

<g>
--
Shaun.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche