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Re: Will a camera stop working in the heat?

 
 
Wally
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      07-02-2011
On 2 Jul 2011 16:30:45 GMT, ray <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>You have us beat Earlier the NWS had forecast a series of days in the
>low 100's -


The North West South?

W
 
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tony cooper
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      07-03-2011
On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 22:48:24 -0400, Alan Browne
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Never done that with camera gear but ray's idea reminds me of stories
>from driving in the African desert where a large slightly seeping bag of
>water was placed over the engine (hood). Driving that way, the water
>seep would evaporate. By evening of the trip the many litres (100 or
>so) in the bag would be ice cold...


You didn't have to be in Africa to see them. They were a common sight
in the American western desert roads as late as the 50s and even the
60s. The evaporating water cooled the engine better than the fan did.

You see the bags frequently on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Desert-W...item2311f057d5

I suppose a Swamp Cooler, used to keep the people inside the
automobile cool, would be impractical to attach to a camera case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_cooler

You'd have to run very fast to keep the air running through the
device.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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Robert Coe
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      07-03-2011
On Sat, 2 Jul 2011 14:23:33 -0700, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
wrote:
: On 2011-07-02 13:45:45 -0700, Wally <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
:
: > On 2 Jul 2011 16:30:45 GMT, ray <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: >
: >> You have us beat Earlier the NWS had forecast a series of days in the
: >> low 100's -
: >
: > The North West South?
: >
: > W
:
: I have a sneekin' suspicion that "NSW" indicates "New South Wales."

Without reading ahead, I'll guess "National Weather Service". ;^)

Bob
 
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tony cooper
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      07-03-2011
On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:21:35 -0400, Alan Browne
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On 2011-07-02 23:58 , tony cooper wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 22:48:24 -0400, Alan Browne
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> Never done that with camera gear but ray's idea reminds me of stories
>>>from driving in the African desert where a large slightly seeping bag of
>>> water was placed over the engine (hood). Driving that way, the water
>>> seep would evaporate. By evening of the trip the many litres (100 or
>>> so) in the bag would be ice cold...

>>
>> You didn't have to be in Africa to see them. They were a common sight
>> in the American western desert roads as late as the 50s and even the
>> 60s. The evaporating water cooled the engine better than the fan did.

>
>In my recollection it had little to do with engine cooling.


I was never on a road trip where one was used, but somewhere in my
boxes of old family photos there's a snap of my aunt standing in front
of her Ford with one hanging on the grille. The snap was taken
somewhere in the west when she and some girlfriends drove from Indiana
to California with stops in Arizona and New Mexico to visit relatives.

She was told that the water bag would turn the incoming hot air to
cool air and stop the overheating the of the water in the radiator,
and thus cool the engine. I remember asking her about the thing when
I saw the photo. I don't recall her saying they ever drank the water.

>The hood
>position just provided a lot of evaporation as the vehicle moved through
>the air. Engine cooling air mostly goes out through the bottom of the
>engine compartment when the vehicle is moving.
>
>Indeed, on stopping you'd want to get the water off of there quickly as
>the heat of the stopped engine would have nowhere to go.


The bags aren't large enough to block air flow.

>Could also be on the roof of the vehicle - but that usually had other cargo.
>
>>
>> You see the bags frequently on eBay:
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Desert-W...item2311f057d5
>>
>> I suppose a Swamp Cooler, used to keep the people inside the
>> automobile cool, would be impractical to attach to a camera case.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_cooler

>
>Cool. Never seen those before.


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Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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tony cooper
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      07-03-2011
On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 11:37:44 -0400, Alan Browne
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On 2011-07-03 10:40 , tony cooper wrote:
>> On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:21:35 -0400, Alan Browne
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2011-07-02 23:58 , tony cooper wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 22:48:24 -0400, Alan Browne
>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Never done that with camera gear but ray's idea reminds me of stories
>>>> >from driving in the African desert where a large slightly seeping bag of
>>>>> water was placed over the engine (hood). Driving that way, the water
>>>>> seep would evaporate. By evening of the trip the many litres (100 or
>>>>> so) in the bag would be ice cold...
>>>>
>>>> You didn't have to be in Africa to see them. They were a common sight
>>>> in the American western desert roads as late as the 50s and even the
>>>> 60s. The evaporating water cooled the engine better than the fan did.
>>>
>>> In my recollection it had little to do with engine cooling.

>>
>> I was never on a road trip where one was used, but somewhere in my
>> boxes of old family photos there's a snap of my aunt standing in front
>> of her Ford with one hanging on the grille. The snap was taken
>> somewhere in the west when she and some girlfriends drove from Indiana
>> to California with stops in Arizona and New Mexico to visit relatives.
>>
>> She was told that the water bag would turn the incoming hot air to
>> cool air and stop the overheating the of the water in the radiator,
>> and thus cool the engine. I remember asking her about the thing when
>> I saw the photo. I don't recall her saying they ever drank the water.

>
>Different use then of what I had seen (on the hood not in front of the
>grille). It does makes sense of course. Cooling is all about
>difference in temperature.
>
>I was just reading up about the seeping water cooler. Apparently the
>taste of the water was an unpleasant canvas taste.... so would not be
>popular in our pampered world.
>
>OTOH by using more advanced materials that "wick" one way, it could
>probably be made less foul tasting.
>
>>> The hood
>>> position just provided a lot of evaporation as the vehicle moved through
>>> the air. Engine cooling air mostly goes out through the bottom of the
>>> engine compartment when the vehicle is moving.
>>>
>>> Indeed, on stopping you'd want to get the water off of there quickly as
>>> the heat of the stopped engine would have nowhere to go.

>>
>> The bags aren't large enough to block air flow.

>
>Again, I was referring to bags on the hood, not in front of the grille.


You've forced me to Google this:

http://10engines.blogspot.com/2009/0...water-bag.html

In case you don't want to open a link, it shows the bags hung in front
of the grille and the copy says:

"Not being a vintage car buff, or from the west coast/desert states, I
had not heard of or seen these until yesterday.... but radiator water
bags were soaked then filled with water (surprise) and hung over the
radiator cap or emblem as cars travelled during hot times of the day
or year... by evaporation the bag would cool, cooling the radiator,
bonus, you then had extra water to top up the radiator if needed."



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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ray
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      07-03-2011
On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 08:04:57 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

> On 2011-07-03 07:30:58 -0700, ray <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
>> On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 22:48:24 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>>> On 2011-07-01 21:17 , Savageduck wrote:
>>>> On 2011-07-01 18:01:24 -0700, ray <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:26:35 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2011-07-01 15:49 , Alfred Molon wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm wondering if a digital camera would stop working when the
>>>>>>> ambient temperature exceeds a certain limit, for instance if you
>>>>>>> spend an entire day in a hot desert.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a point. Look at the spec.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For mine the max operating temp is 40°C (104°F).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've used it in Death Valley to 46°C (115°F) with no issues. But I
>>>>>> kept it in the shade and well bagged and it had spells in the car
>>>>>> with ac). Also walked around (racetrack, esp.) in the heat for over
>>>>>> an hour with it - so it definitely soaked above its spec point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It likely would have balked at some point had I been out there
>>>>>> longer, or perhaps there may have been artifacts from the sensor.
>>>>>> Just did not happen on that trip.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keep some white towels handy, and insulated (well padded) camera
>>>>>> bag, and it will probably shoot well most of the day even above the
>>>>>> spec point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good point. As far as that goes, if it's a dry climate, keeping it
>>>>> in a plastic bag surrounded with damp towels would give good
>>>>> evaporative cooling.
>>>>
>>>> That is not a good idea.
>>>> Bagged and protected from direct sunlight is probably your best bet.
>>>> If the bag has some cushioning material to help with insulation it
>>>> would be a great help, but wrapping with wet towels to add a cooling
>>>> effect, might prove problematic.
>>>
>>> It's not a bad idea. When I golf in the high heat I wring out a towel
>>> as much as I can and place it around my neck. The evaporation removes
>>> a lot of heat. The marshal can **** himself if it's sartorially
>>> incompatible with his high standards.

>>
>> There are, or were, commercially manufactured neck devices about 3/4"
>> in diameter when soaked in water - tie it around somewhat like a
>> bandana. When completely dried out, it was essentially flat with a few
>> beads of some material floating around inside. Haven't needed one since
>> I left the desert southwest seven years ago.
>>
>>
>>> Never done that with camera gear but ray's idea reminds me of stories
>>> from driving in the African desert where a large slightly seeping bag
>>> of water was placed over the engine (hood). Driving that way, the
>>> water seep would evaporate. By evening of the trip the many litres
>>> (100 or so) in the bag would be ice cold...
>>>
>>> So if the camera bag can be protected, the cooling will definitely
>>> prevent overheating the bag. No matter what the insulation thermal
>>> equilibrium is inevitable. Might as well reverse the sign.

>>
>> The point is that the contents would generally not be cooled that much
>> in ambient airflow. We're talking about knocking the inside temp down
>> from 120F to maybe 90F. Unless it's a comparatively damp climate, that
>> will still be above the dew point - hence no condensation. It takes a
>> goodly air flow to get the temps down anywhere near the dew point.

>
> I have this image of a camera bag covered in dripping cloth, hanging off
> the front of the vehicle in the slipstream. I just hope there is enough
> padding to absorb the potential impact damage. ...and it might end up a
> degree or two cooler.


I think I suggested 'damp' rather than 'dripping' and I don't believe I'd
have it in the slipstream. Could wind up being 20 or 30 degrees cooler,
depending on the conditions. But you still can't cool something, by means
of evaporation, to a point where it would condense.
 
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ray
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      07-03-2011
On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 12:26:56 -0400, tony cooper wrote:

> On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 11:37:44 -0400, Alan Browne
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On 2011-07-03 10:40 , tony cooper wrote:
>>> On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:21:35 -0400, Alan Browne
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2011-07-02 23:58 , tony cooper wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 22:48:24 -0400, Alan Browne
>>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Never done that with camera gear but ray's idea reminds me of
>>>>>> stories
>>>>> >from driving in the African desert where a large slightly seeping
>>>>> >bag of
>>>>>> water was placed over the engine (hood). Driving that way, the
>>>>>> water seep would evaporate. By evening of the trip the many litres
>>>>>> (100 or so) in the bag would be ice cold...
>>>>>
>>>>> You didn't have to be in Africa to see them. They were a common
>>>>> sight in the American western desert roads as late as the 50s and
>>>>> even the 60s. The evaporating water cooled the engine better than
>>>>> the fan did.
>>>>
>>>> In my recollection it had little to do with engine cooling.
>>>
>>> I was never on a road trip where one was used, but somewhere in my
>>> boxes of old family photos there's a snap of my aunt standing in front
>>> of her Ford with one hanging on the grille. The snap was taken
>>> somewhere in the west when she and some girlfriends drove from Indiana
>>> to California with stops in Arizona and New Mexico to visit relatives.
>>>
>>> She was told that the water bag would turn the incoming hot air to
>>> cool air and stop the overheating the of the water in the radiator,
>>> and thus cool the engine. I remember asking her about the thing when
>>> I saw the photo. I don't recall her saying they ever drank the water.

>>
>>Different use then of what I had seen (on the hood not in front of the
>>grille). It does makes sense of course. Cooling is all about
>>difference in temperature.
>>
>>I was just reading up about the seeping water cooler. Apparently the
>>taste of the water was an unpleasant canvas taste.... so would not be
>>popular in our pampered world.
>>
>>OTOH by using more advanced materials that "wick" one way, it could
>>probably be made less foul tasting.
>>
>>>> The hood
>>>> position just provided a lot of evaporation as the vehicle moved
>>>> through the air. Engine cooling air mostly goes out through the
>>>> bottom of the engine compartment when the vehicle is moving.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, on stopping you'd want to get the water off of there quickly
>>>> as the heat of the stopped engine would have nowhere to go.
>>>
>>> The bags aren't large enough to block air flow.

>>
>>Again, I was referring to bags on the hood, not in front of the grille.

>
> You've forced me to Google this:
>
> http://10engines.blogspot.com/2009/0...water-bag.html
>
> In case you don't want to open a link, it shows the bags hung in front
> of the grille and the copy says:
>
> "Not being a vintage car buff, or from the west coast/desert states, I
> had not heard of or seen these until yesterday.... but radiator water
> bags were soaked then filled with water (surprise) and hung over the
> radiator cap or emblem as cars travelled during hot times of the day or
> year... by evaporation the bag would cool, cooling the radiator, bonus,
> you then had extra water to top up the radiator if needed."


I don't think blocking the radiator air flow is going to improve the
engine cooling much. The main effect is to cool the contents, not the air
around it. The bags work in the following fashion: first, soak the bags
so that the fibers expand, allowing the liquid to be retained. As the bag
is in the airflow, water evaporates from the surface, cooling the surface
and thence the contents. As the water evaporates from the surface, it
does 'wick out' to replenish. If you've ever used one, you'll be aware
that the surface, after much time, is damp but certainly not soaking.

We used to use one when I was a kid. I've used them up to the early 80's.
In the earlier days, it was not so easy to carry much cool water - but
modern coolers have made it much simpler.
 
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Whisky-dave
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-04-2011
On Jul 2, 4:59*am, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> On 2011-07-01 20:14:25 -0700, ray <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:17:50 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

>
> >> On 2011-07-01 18:01:24 -0700, ray <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

>
> >>> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:26:35 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

>
> >>>> On 2011-07-01 15:49 , Alfred Molon wrote:
> >>>>> I'm wondering if a digital camera would stop working when the ambient
> >>>>> temperature exceeds a certain limit, for instance if you spend an
> >>>>> entire day in a hot desert.

>
> >>>> There is a point. *Look at the spec.

>
> >>>> For mine the max operating temp is 40C (104F).

>
> >>>> I've used it in Death Valley to 46C (115F) with no issues. *But I
> >>>> kept it in the shade and well bagged and it had spells in the car with
> >>>> ac). Also walked around (racetrack, esp.) in the heat for over an hour
> >>>> with it - so it definitely soaked above its spec point.

>
> >>>> It likely would have balked at some point had I been out there longer,
> >>>> or perhaps there may have been artifacts from the sensor. *Just did
> >>>> not happen on that trip.

>
> >>>> Keep some white towels handy, and insulated (well padded) camera bag,
> >>>> and it will probably shoot well most of the day even above the spec
> >>>> point.

>
> >>> Good point. As far as that goes, if it's a dry climate, keeping it ina
> >>> plastic bag surrounded with damp towels would give good evaporative
> >>> cooling.

>
> >> That is not a good idea.
> >> Bagged and protected from direct sunlight is probably your best bet. If
> >> the bag has some cushioning material to help with insulation it would be
> >> a great help, but wrapping with wet towels to add a cooling effect,
> >> might prove problematic.

>
> > How so?

>
> Having the camera kept artificially cool using a make-shift "swamp
> cooler" with damp towels will invariably lead to condensation issues
> for lenses and camera.
>
> The same can happen when suddenly moving from an air conditioned
> environment to the oven like heat of the desert.
>
> I have experienced what can happen with sudden changes from an
> artificially cooled environment to the intense heat which can be found
> in a hot desert climate. Some years ago while traveling in Namibia
> through the Namib Desert to the coastal town of Swakopmund in an
> air-conditioned car, I decided to see just what it felt like outside
> and I rolled the window down. The result was an instant micro-climate
> weather front created inside the car which completely fogged the
> interior, forcing us to stop as we had no visibility through the
> interior cloud. I would not have believed this could have happen so
> dramatically if I had not experienced it myself.
>
> It would not be entirely outside the realm of possibility to have a
> similar thing happen to the interior of a camera under similar
> circumstances.
>
> As I said, I would keep your camera in a decent camera bag, with
> appropriate padding (perhaps with an extra wrap). That way if you are
> in a vehicle with AC and you move into the heat there would not be a
> steep heat differential. Also if you are out in the heat a bag (it
> could be a back-pack) would protect the camera from the added heat of
> direct exposure to the Sun.
>
> BTW: along with keeping yourself well hydrated, get a decent hat.


And sun glasses, some hefty suntan lotion and cold beer

 
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John Turco
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      07-09-2011
Savageduck wrote:
>
> > On 2011-07-02 12:29:07 -0700, Alfred Molon <(E-Mail Removed)>
> > said:
> >
> >> Savageduck says...
> >> However most padded contemporary camera bags, regardless of color
> >> (with the exception of a black bag) will provide protection against
> >> direct exposure to the Sun.

> >
> > Lots of (perhaps most) camera bags are black

>
> My LowePro is green and my Tamrac and ClikElite are light grey.
> All my ThinkTank stuff is black.
>
> The important thing is protection from the direct heat of the Sun.
> The ambient temperature is something you will just have to deal
> with.



UV (ultraviolet) radiation is a damaging component of sunlight.

Among other potential hazards (such as skin cancer), it can make
plastic brittle, unless preventative measures are taken (e.g.,
the use of "Armor All" protectant).

--
Cordially,
John Turco <(E-Mail Removed)>

Marie's Musings <http://fairiesandtails.blogspot.com>
 
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PeterN
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      07-09-2011
On 7/8/2011 11:48 PM, John Turco wrote:
> Savageduck wrote:
>>
>>> On 2011-07-02 12:29:07 -0700, Alfred Molon<(E-Mail Removed)>
>>> said:
>>>
>>>> Savageduck says...
>>>> However most padded contemporary camera bags, regardless of color
>>>> (with the exception of a black bag) will provide protection against
>>>> direct exposure to the Sun.
>>>
>>> Lots of (perhaps most) camera bags are black

>>
>> My LowePro is green and my Tamrac and ClikElite are light grey.
>> All my ThinkTank stuff is black.
>>
>> The important thing is protection from the direct heat of the Sun.
>> The ambient temperature is something you will just have to deal
>> with.

>
>
> UV (ultraviolet) radiation is a damaging component of sunlight.
>
> Among other potential hazards (such as skin cancer), it can make
> plastic brittle, unless preventative measures are taken (e.g.,
> the use of "Armor All" protectant).
>


Doesn't that make it greasy?

--
Peter
 
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