Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Computing > Digital Photography > Re: Weapons are available for viewing, finally!

Reply
Thread Tools

Re: Weapons are available for viewing, finally!

 
 
otter
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-16-2011
On Jun 15, 8:06*pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> Otter:
> Weapons; Nice bronze cannon, it looks like an M1857 "Napoleon"
> 12-pounder to me.


You are probably right. According to my source, it is a bronze 12-lb
light field gun bought by the governor of Texas in 1864 "to keep the
peace in the surrounding area".

> Weapons 02: Caught them firing a salute?


They were practicing for a ceremony later in the day (Memorial Day
weekend). I couldn't stay for the actual firing.

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
otter
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-16-2011
On Jun 15, 9:14*pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> On 2011-06-15 18:38:35 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
> > On Jun 15, 8:06*pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>
> >> Otter:
> >> Weapons; Nice bronze cannon, it looks like an M1857 "Napoleon"
> >> 12-pounder to me.

>
> > You are probably right. *According to my source, it is a bronze 12-lb
> > light field gun bought by the governor of Texas in 1864 "to keep the
> > peace in the surrounding area".

>
> That would be about right for that gun. The Federals and CSA both used
> 12-Lb "Napoleons". However the two versions differed in that the
> Federal model had a a slight muzzle flair or "bulge" for strengthening
> at the muzzle. The CSA version did not have this functional adornment.
> The CSA barrel tapered smoothly down its entire length without a bulge.
> The example you show, has the muzzle flair and having been acquired by
> Texas in 1864, is probably a post Civil War surplus Federal N1857
> 12-Pounder "Napoleon".
> During the War smooth bore guns such as this became obsolete and were
> replaced with rifled guns, such as the "Parrot" and breach loader guns..
>
> Nice and well maintained and polished. Over the years most other
> surviving examples have developed a green patina to the bronze barrel.
>


It was still about a year before the end of the Civil War when the
bronze cannon were bought (there are 2 of them). I believe Austin was
still under CSA control at the time. Not sure where the guns came
from, but possibly Mexico. There were "cotton roads" to Mexico during
the Civil War where cotton was exchanged for weapons and supplies.
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
otter
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-17-2011
On Jun 16, 9:07*am, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> On 2011-06-16 06:08:37 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 15, 9:14 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> >> On 2011-06-15 18:38:35 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

>
> >>> On Jun 15, 8:06 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote

> > :

>
> >>>> Otter:
> >>>> Weapons; Nice bronze cannon, it looks like an M1857 "Napoleon"
> >>>> 12-pounder to me.

>
> >>> You are probably right. According to my source, it is a bronze 12-lb
> >>> light field gun bought by the governor of Texas in 1864 "to keep the
> >>> peace in the surrounding area".

>
> >> That would be about right for that gun. The Federals and CSA both used
> >> 12-Lb "Napoleons". However the two versions differed in that the
> >> Federal model had a a slight muzzle flair or "bulge" for strengthening
> >> at the muzzle. The CSA version did not have this functional adornment.
> >> The CSA barrel tapered smoothly down its entire length without a bulge..
> >> The example you show, has the muzzle flair and having been acquired by
> >> Texas in 1864, is probably a post Civil War surplus Federal N1857
> >> 12-Pounder "Napoleon".
> >> During the War smooth bore guns such as this became obsolete and were
> >> replaced with rifled guns, such as the "Parrot" and breach loader guns...

>
> >> Nice and well maintained and polished. Over the years most other
> >> surviving examples have developed a green patina to the bronze barrel.

>
> > It was still about a year before the end of the Civil War when the
> > bronze cannon were bought (there are 2 of them). I believe Austin was
> > still under CSA control at the time. *Not sure where the guns came
> > from, but possibly Mexico. *There were "cotton roads" to Mexico during
> > the Civil War where cotton was exchanged for weapons and supplies.

>
> They could also be a captured Federal cannon.
> There is a way to check on the origins. The next time you are in the
> area, take a look at the end of the muzzle. All Federal guns had a
> foundry name plus a casting and a Ordnance number cast around the
> opening of the muzzle. Usually the year of casting is included.
> I am not sure which CSA foundries cast 12-pounders, they built about
> 600 early in the War and most were used in the Eastern campaigns. Most
> CSA Artillery was made and repaired at Richmond and Macon. and should
> have Tredegar Iron Works or Richmond Arsenal markings. However the
> Texas gun is not a CSA design. Also no CSA bronze guns were cast after
> late 1863 when the Confederacy lost control of the Tennessee copper
> mines.
>
> If they originated from Mexico they are in all likelihood French. From
> 1860 through 1867 The French occupied Mexico. There would be
> appropriate French markings.
>
> BTW: The term "Napoleon" for the 12-pounder is not inspired by Napoleon
> Bonaparte, but Louis Napoleon. They were the state of art smooth bore
> guns, but the bronze was too soft *for them to be made as rifles. There
> were some attempts to rifle them, but those wore out quickly in use,
> effectively becoming bad smooth bores.


http://www.dreamstime.com/texas-capi...agefree1240966
There are some markings there, but I can't make them out from this
photo. I'll check it out in person next time I'm down there.
 
Reply With Quote
 
otter
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-17-2011
On Jun 16, 7:00*pm, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Jun 16, 9:07*am, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2011-06-16 06:08:37 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

>
> > > On Jun 15, 9:14 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> > >> On 2011-06-15 18:38:35 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

>
> > >>> On Jun 15, 8:06 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote
> > > :

>
> > >>>> Otter:
> > >>>> Weapons; Nice bronze cannon, it looks like an M1857 "Napoleon"
> > >>>> 12-pounder to me.

>
> > >>> You are probably right. According to my source, it is a bronze 12-lb
> > >>> light field gun bought by the governor of Texas in 1864 "to keep the
> > >>> peace in the surrounding area".

>
> > >> That would be about right for that gun. The Federals and CSA both used
> > >> 12-Lb "Napoleons". However the two versions differed in that the
> > >> Federal model had a a slight muzzle flair or "bulge" for strengthening
> > >> at the muzzle. The CSA version did not have this functional adornment.
> > >> The CSA barrel tapered smoothly down its entire length without a bulge.
> > >> The example you show, has the muzzle flair and having been acquired by
> > >> Texas in 1864, is probably a post Civil War surplus Federal N1857
> > >> 12-Pounder "Napoleon".
> > >> During the War smooth bore guns such as this became obsolete and were
> > >> replaced with rifled guns, such as the "Parrot" and breach loader guns..

>
> > >> Nice and well maintained and polished. Over the years most other
> > >> surviving examples have developed a green patina to the bronze barrel.

>
> > > It was still about a year before the end of the Civil War when the
> > > bronze cannon were bought (there are 2 of them). I believe Austin was
> > > still under CSA control at the time. *Not sure where the guns came
> > > from, but possibly Mexico. *There were "cotton roads" to Mexico during
> > > the Civil War where cotton was exchanged for weapons and supplies.

>
> > They could also be a captured Federal cannon.
> > There is a way to check on the origins. The next time you are in the
> > area, take a look at the end of the muzzle. All Federal guns had a
> > foundry name plus a casting and a Ordnance number cast around the
> > opening of the muzzle. Usually the year of casting is included.
> > I am not sure which CSA foundries cast 12-pounders, they built about
> > 600 early in the War and most were used in the Eastern campaigns. Most
> > CSA Artillery was made and repaired at Richmond and Macon. and should
> > have Tredegar Iron Works or Richmond Arsenal markings. However the
> > Texas gun is not a CSA design. Also no CSA bronze guns were cast after
> > late 1863 when the Confederacy lost control of the Tennessee copper
> > mines.

>
> > If they originated from Mexico they are in all likelihood French. From
> > 1860 through 1867 The French occupied Mexico. There would be
> > appropriate French markings.

>
> > BTW: The term "Napoleon" for the 12-pounder is not inspired by Napoleon
> > Bonaparte, but Louis Napoleon. They were the state of art smooth bore
> > guns, but the bronze was too soft *for them to be made as rifles. There
> > were some attempts to rifle them, but those wore out quickly in use,
> > effectively becoming bad smooth bores.

>
> http://www.dreamstime.com/texas-capi...agefree1240966
> There are some markings there, but I can't make them out from this
> photo. *I'll check it out in person next time I'm down there.


http://www.flickriver.com/photos/adl...0408096/#large
Here's a better picture.
Upper left: No414
Upper right: 1283 (or 1288?)
Bottom left: C. C. ?
Bottom right: 1864 (that would match the year it was bought) or JB64,
but I'm going with 1864
 
Reply With Quote
 
otter
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-17-2011
On Jun 16, 8:02*pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> On 2011-06-16 17:18:26 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 16, 7:00*pm, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> On Jun 16, 9:07*am, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>
> >>> On 2011-06-16 06:08:37 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

>
> >>>> On Jun 15, 9:14 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote

> > :
> >>>>> On 2011-06-15 18:38:35 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

>
> >>>>>> On Jun 15, 8:06 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wro

> > te
> >>>> :

>
> >>>>>>> Otter:
> >>>>>>> Weapons; Nice bronze cannon, it looks like an M1857 "Napoleon"
> >>>>>>> 12-pounder to me.

>
> >>>>>> You are probably right. According to my source, it is a bronze 12-l

> > b
> >>>>>> light field gun bought by the governor of Texas in 1864 "to keep th

> > e
> >>>>>> peace in the surrounding area".

>
> >>>>> That would be about right for that gun. The Federals and CSA both us

> > ed
> >>>>> 12-Lb "Napoleons". However the two versions differed in that the
> >>>>> Federal model had a a slight muzzle flair or "bulge" for strengtheni

> > ng
> >>>>> at the muzzle. The CSA version did not have this functional adornmen

> > t.
> >>>>> The CSA barrel tapered smoothly down its entire length without a bul

> > ge.
> >>>>> The example you show, has the muzzle flair and having been acquired

> > by
> >>>>> Texas in 1864, is probably a post Civil War surplus Federal N1857
> >>>>> 12-Pounder "Napoleon".
> >>>>> During the War smooth bore guns such as this became obsolete and wer

> > e
> >>>>> replaced with rifled guns, such as the "Parrot" and breach loader gu

> > ns..

>
> >>>>> Nice and well maintained and polished. Over the years most other
> >>>>> surviving examples have developed a green patina to the bronze barre

> > l.

>
> >>>> It was still about a year before the end of the Civil War when the
> >>>> bronze cannon were bought (there are 2 of them). I believe Austin was
> >>>> still under CSA control at the time. *Not sure where the guns came
> >>>> from, but possibly Mexico. *There were "cotton roads" to Mexico dur

> > ing
> >>>> the Civil War where cotton was exchanged for weapons and supplies.

>
> >>> They could also be a captured Federal cannon.
> >>> There is a way to check on the origins. The next time you are in the
> >>> area, take a look at the end of the muzzle. All Federal guns had a
> >>> foundry name plus a casting and a Ordnance number cast around the
> >>> opening of the muzzle. Usually the year of casting is included.
> >>> I am not sure which CSA foundries cast 12-pounders, they built about
> >>> 600 early in the War and most were used in the Eastern campaigns. Most
> >>> CSA Artillery was made and repaired at Richmond and Macon. and should
> >>> have Tredegar Iron Works or Richmond Arsenal markings. However the
> >>> Texas gun is not a CSA design. Also no CSA bronze guns were cast after
> >>> late 1863 when the Confederacy lost control of the Tennessee copper
> >>> mines.

>
> >>> If they originated from Mexico they are in all likelihood French. From
> >>> 1860 through 1867 The French occupied Mexico. There would be
> >>> appropriate French markings.

>
> >>> BTW: The term "Napoleon" for the 12-pounder is not inspired by Napoleon
> >>> Bonaparte, but Louis Napoleon. They were the state of art smooth bore
> >>> guns, but the bronze was too soft *for them to be made as rifles. The

> > re
> >>> were some attempts to rifle them, but those wore out quickly in use,
> >>> effectively becoming bad smooth bores.

>
> >>http://www.dreamstime.com/texas-capi...agefree1240966
> >> There are some markings there, but I can't make them out from this
> >> photo. *I'll check it out in person next time I'm down there.

>
> >http://www.flickriver.com/photos/adl...0408096/#large
> > Here's a better picture.
> > Upper left: No414
> > Upper right: 1283 (or 1288?)
> > Bottom left: C. C. ?
> > Bottom right: 1864 (that would match the year it was bought) or JB64,
> > but I'm going with 1864

>
> I went to the "original size" and cropped so I could get a better look.
> <http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/No414wc.jpg>
>
> The "No.414" is the number of the piece.
> The "1286 lbs" is the total weight of the bronze casting, almost as
> good as a fingerprint as they always varied.
> 1864 is the casting year.
> ... and "CO" is Confederate States Ordnance.
>
> This particular 12-pounder "Napoleon" must have been one of the few CSA
> guns cast using a Federal mold, probably captured from Harpers Ferry.
> The CSA only built between 500-600 of these guns, and the majority were
> cast without the barrel flare, or bulge. So "No.414" is a rarity
> indeed. Moving it to Texas is probably what saved it.
> The Feds by comparison cast some 1,800 during the war.


This is interesting. With the fall of Vicksburg and Port Hudson (near
Baton Rouge LA) in July 1863 the Union had control of the Mississippi
River and split the South in two parts. If this cannon were cast in
the East in 1864, how did it make it to Texas? I suppose it could
have been smuggled across the river when the Union gunboats weren't
around.
 
Reply With Quote
 
otter
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-17-2011
On Jun 16, 8:49*pm, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Jun 16, 8:02*pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2011-06-16 17:18:26 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

>
> > > On Jun 16, 7:00*pm, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > >> On Jun 16, 9:07*am, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>
> > >>> On 2011-06-16 06:08:37 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

>
> > >>>> On Jun 15, 9:14 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote
> > > :
> > >>>>> On 2011-06-15 18:38:35 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

>
> > >>>>>> On Jun 15, 8:06 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wro
> > > te
> > >>>> :

>
> > >>>>>>> Otter:
> > >>>>>>> Weapons; Nice bronze cannon, it looks like an M1857 "Napoleon"
> > >>>>>>> 12-pounder to me.

>
> > >>>>>> You are probably right. According to my source, it is a bronze 12-l
> > > b
> > >>>>>> light field gun bought by the governor of Texas in 1864 "to keepth
> > > e
> > >>>>>> peace in the surrounding area".

>
> > >>>>> That would be about right for that gun. The Federals and CSA bothus
> > > ed
> > >>>>> 12-Lb "Napoleons". However the two versions differed in that the
> > >>>>> Federal model had a a slight muzzle flair or "bulge" for strengtheni
> > > ng
> > >>>>> at the muzzle. The CSA version did not have this functional adornmen
> > > t.
> > >>>>> The CSA barrel tapered smoothly down its entire length without a bul
> > > ge.
> > >>>>> The example you show, has the muzzle flair and having been acquired
> > > by
> > >>>>> Texas in 1864, is probably a post Civil War surplus Federal N1857
> > >>>>> 12-Pounder "Napoleon".
> > >>>>> During the War smooth bore guns such as this became obsolete and wer
> > > e
> > >>>>> replaced with rifled guns, such as the "Parrot" and breach loadergu
> > > ns..

>
> > >>>>> Nice and well maintained and polished. Over the years most other
> > >>>>> surviving examples have developed a green patina to the bronze barre
> > > l.

>
> > >>>> It was still about a year before the end of the Civil War when the
> > >>>> bronze cannon were bought (there are 2 of them). I believe Austin was
> > >>>> still under CSA control at the time. *Not sure where the guns came
> > >>>> from, but possibly Mexico. *There were "cotton roads" to Mexico dur
> > > ing
> > >>>> the Civil War where cotton was exchanged for weapons and supplies.

>
> > >>> They could also be a captured Federal cannon.
> > >>> There is a way to check on the origins. The next time you are in the
> > >>> area, take a look at the end of the muzzle. All Federal guns had a
> > >>> foundry name plus a casting and a Ordnance number cast around the
> > >>> opening of the muzzle. Usually the year of casting is included.
> > >>> I am not sure which CSA foundries cast 12-pounders, they built about
> > >>> 600 early in the War and most were used in the Eastern campaigns. Most
> > >>> CSA Artillery was made and repaired at Richmond and Macon. and should
> > >>> have Tredegar Iron Works or Richmond Arsenal markings. However the
> > >>> Texas gun is not a CSA design. Also no CSA bronze guns were cast after
> > >>> late 1863 when the Confederacy lost control of the Tennessee copper
> > >>> mines.

>
> > >>> If they originated from Mexico they are in all likelihood French. From
> > >>> 1860 through 1867 The French occupied Mexico. There would be
> > >>> appropriate French markings.

>
> > >>> BTW: The term "Napoleon" for the 12-pounder is not inspired by Napoleon
> > >>> Bonaparte, but Louis Napoleon. They were the state of art smooth bore
> > >>> guns, but the bronze was too soft *for them to be made as rifles.The
> > > re
> > >>> were some attempts to rifle them, but those wore out quickly in use,
> > >>> effectively becoming bad smooth bores.

>
> > >>http://www.dreamstime.com/texas-capi...agefree1240966
> > >> There are some markings there, but I can't make them out from this
> > >> photo. *I'll check it out in person next time I'm down there.

>
> > >http://www.flickriver.com/photos/adl...0408096/#large
> > > Here's a better picture.
> > > Upper left: No414
> > > Upper right: 1283 (or 1288?)
> > > Bottom left: C. C. ?
> > > Bottom right: 1864 (that would match the year it was bought) or JB64,
> > > but I'm going with 1864

>
> > I went to the "original size" and cropped so I could get a better look.
> > <http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/No414wc.jpg>

>
> > The "No.414" is the number of the piece.
> > The "1286 lbs" is the total weight of the bronze casting, almost as
> > good as a fingerprint as they always varied.
> > 1864 is the casting year.
> > ... and "CO" is Confederate States Ordnance.

>
> > This particular 12-pounder "Napoleon" must have been one of the few CSA
> > guns cast using a Federal mold, probably captured from Harpers Ferry.
> > The CSA only built between 500-600 of these guns, and the majority were
> > cast without the barrel flare, or bulge. So "No.414" is a rarity
> > indeed. Moving it to Texas is probably what saved it.
> > The Feds by comparison cast some 1,800 during the war.

>
> This is interesting. *With the fall of Vicksburg and Port Hudson (near
> Baton Rouge LA) in July 1863 the Union had control of the Mississippi
> River and split the South in two parts. *If this cannon were cast in
> the East in 1864, how did it make it to Texas? *I suppose it could
> have been smuggled across the river when the Union gunboats weren't
> around.


And like you mentioned in a previous post, they lost control of the
Tennessee Copper in 1863. And this gun doesn't have the RA markings
you mentioned, either. I wonder if this gun wasn't made to order in
Mexico and given those markings there. There is an interesting story
here, but may be hard to figure it out.
 
Reply With Quote
 
otter
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-17-2011
On Jun 16, 9:55*pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> On 2011-06-16 18:49:56 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 16, 8:02*pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> >> On 2011-06-16 17:18:26 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
> >>> On Jun 16, 7:00*pm, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>>> On Jun 16, 9:07*am, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrot

> > e:
> >>>>> On 2011-06-16 06:08:37 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
> >>>>>> On Jun 15, 9:14 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 2011-06-15 18:38:35 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
> >>>>>>>> On Jun 15, 8:06 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Otter: Weapons; Nice bronze cannon, it looks like an M1857 "Napoleon"
> >>>>>>>>> 12-pounder to me.

>
> >>>>>>>> You are probably right. According to my source, it is a bronze 12- lb
> >>>>>>>> light field gun bought by the governor of Texas in 1864 "to keepthe
> >>>>>>>> peace in the surrounding area".

>
> >>>>>>> That would be about right for that gun. The Federals and CSA bothused
> >>>>>>> 12-Lb "Napoleons". However the two versions differed in that the
> >>>>>>> Federal model had a a slight muzzle flair or "bulge" for strengthening
> >>>>>>> at the muzzle. The CSA version did not have this functional adornment.
> >>>>>>> The CSA barrel tapered smoothly down its entire length without a bulge.
> >>>>>>> The example you show, has the muzzle flair and having been acquired by
> >>>>>>> Texas in 1864, is probably a post Civil War surplus Federal N1857
> >>>>>>> 12-Pounder "Napoleon".
> >>>>>>> During the War smooth bore guns such as this became obsolete and were
> >>>>>>> replaced with rifled guns, such as the "Parrot" and breach loaderguns.

>
> >>>>>>> Nice and well maintained and polished. Over the years most other
> >>>>>>> surviving examples have developed a green patina to the bronze barrel.

>
> >>>>>> It was still about a year before the end of the Civil War when the
> >>>>>> bronze cannon were bought (there are 2 of them). I believe Austin was
> >>>>>> still under CSA control at the time. *Not sure where the guns came
> >>>>>> from, but possibly Mexico. *There were "cotton roads" to Mexico during
> >>>>>> the Civil War where cotton was exchanged for weapons and supplies.

>
> >>>>> They could also be a captured Federal cannon.
> >>>>> There is a way to check on the origins. The next time you are in the
> >>>>> area, take a look at the end of the muzzle. All Federal guns had a
> >>>>> foundry name plus a casting and a Ordnance number cast around the
> >>>>> opening of the muzzle. Usually the year of casting is included.
> >>>>> I am not sure which CSA foundries cast 12-pounders, they built about
> >>>>> 600 early in the War and most were used in the Eastern campaigns. Most
> >>>>> CSA Artillery was made and repaired at Richmond and Macon. and should
> >>>>> have Tredegar Iron Works or Richmond Arsenal markings. However the
> >>>>> Texas gun is not a CSA design. Also no CSA bronze guns were cast after
> >>>>> late 1863 when the Confederacy lost control of the Tennessee copper
> >>>>> mines.

>
> >>>>> If they originated from Mexico they are in all likelihood French. From
> >>>>> 1860 through 1867 The French occupied Mexico. There would be
> >>>>> appropriate French markings.

>
> >>>>> BTW: The term "Napoleon" for the 12-pounder is not inspired by Napoleon
> >>>>> Bonaparte, but Louis Napoleon. They were the state of art smooth bore
> >>>>> guns, but the bronze was too soft *for them to be made as rifles.There
> >>>>> were some attempts to rifle them, but those wore out quickly in use,
> >>>>> effectively becoming bad smooth bores.

>
> >>>>http://www.dreamstime.com/texas-capi...agefree1240966
> >>>> There are some markings there, but I can't make them out from this
> >>>> photo. *I'll check it out in person next time I'm down there.

>
> >>>http://www.flickriver.com/photos/adl...0408096/#large
> >>> Here's a better picture.
> >>> Upper left: No414
> >>> Upper right: 1283 (or 1288?)
> >>> Bottom left: C. C. ?
> >>> Bottom right: 1864 (that would match the year it was bought) or JB64,
> >>> but I'm going with 1864

>
> >> I went to the "original size" and cropped so I could get a better look..
> >> <http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/No414wc.jpg>

>
> >> The "No.414" is the number of the piece.
> >> The "1286 lbs" is the total weight of the bronze casting, almost as
> >> good as a fingerprint as they always varied.
> >> 1864 is the casting year.
> >> ... and "CO" is Confederate States Ordnance.

>
> >> This particular 12-pounder "Napoleon" must have been one of the few CSA
> >> guns cast using a Federal mold, probably captured from Harpers Ferry.
> >> The CSA only built between 500-600 of these guns, and the majority were
> >> cast without the barrel flare, or bulge. So "No.414" is a rarity
> >> indeed. Moving it to Texas is probably what saved it.
> >> The Feds by comparison cast some 1,800 during the war.

>
> > This is interesting. *With the fall of Vicksburg and Port Hudson (near
> > Baton Rouge LA) in July 1863 the Union had control of the Mississippi
> > River and split the South in two parts. *If this cannon were cast in
> > the East in 1864, how did it make it to Texas? *I suppose it could
> > have been smuggled across the river when the Union gunboats weren't
> > around.

>
> There is a good chance there was a rearming effort by the last of the
> Western Gulf blockade runners. Galveston was recaptured by Gen. John
> Magruder on Jan 1, 1863, and they retained control until the end of the
> war.
> From March 1864 not much was getting out of Wilmington, or Savannah.
> Mobile was closed to the CSA in August 1864. Any time after that is
> unlikely, and even then the CSN *had lost most of its government
> transports. Some private foreign blockade runners were still taking the
> risk, so that is a possibility.
>
> Otherwise the only other option would have been overland through Union
> lines, and that would have been tough, but not impossible.


Well, here is another possibility:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Campaign
It turns out that some Union artillery were captured by the
Confederates in the battle of Mansfield during the Red River campaign
in 1864. The account goes on to say SOME of the cannon were
recaptured later, which would lead me to believe that the Confederates
managed to hold on to the rest. I wonder if they changed the markings
on those guns? That would explain the Federal design, among other
things.
 
Reply With Quote
 
otter
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-17-2011
On Jun 16, 10:12*pm, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Jun 16, 9:55*pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2011-06-16 18:49:56 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

>
> > > On Jun 16, 8:02*pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> > >> On 2011-06-16 17:18:26 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
> > >>> On Jun 16, 7:00*pm, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > >>>> On Jun 16, 9:07*am, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrot
> > > e:
> > >>>>> On 2011-06-16 06:08:37 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
> > >>>>>> On Jun 15, 9:14 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On 2011-06-15 18:38:35 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
> > >>>>>>>> On Jun 15, 8:06 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> Otter: Weapons; Nice bronze cannon, it looks like an M1857 "Napoleon"
> > >>>>>>>>> 12-pounder to me.

>
> > >>>>>>>> You are probably right. According to my source, it is a bronze12- lb
> > >>>>>>>> light field gun bought by the governor of Texas in 1864 "to keep the
> > >>>>>>>> peace in the surrounding area".

>
> > >>>>>>> That would be about right for that gun. The Federals and CSA both used
> > >>>>>>> 12-Lb "Napoleons". However the two versions differed in that the
> > >>>>>>> Federal model had a a slight muzzle flair or "bulge" for strengthening
> > >>>>>>> at the muzzle. The CSA version did not have this functional adornment.
> > >>>>>>> The CSA barrel tapered smoothly down its entire length without a bulge.
> > >>>>>>> The example you show, has the muzzle flair and having been acquired by
> > >>>>>>> Texas in 1864, is probably a post Civil War surplus Federal N1857
> > >>>>>>> 12-Pounder "Napoleon".
> > >>>>>>> During the War smooth bore guns such as this became obsolete and were
> > >>>>>>> replaced with rifled guns, such as the "Parrot" and breach loader guns.

>
> > >>>>>>> Nice and well maintained and polished. Over the years most other
> > >>>>>>> surviving examples have developed a green patina to the bronze barrel.

>
> > >>>>>> It was still about a year before the end of the Civil War when the
> > >>>>>> bronze cannon were bought (there are 2 of them). I believe Austin was
> > >>>>>> still under CSA control at the time. *Not sure where the guns came
> > >>>>>> from, but possibly Mexico. *There were "cotton roads" to Mexico during
> > >>>>>> the Civil War where cotton was exchanged for weapons and supplies.

>
> > >>>>> They could also be a captured Federal cannon.
> > >>>>> There is a way to check on the origins. The next time you are in the
> > >>>>> area, take a look at the end of the muzzle. All Federal guns had a
> > >>>>> foundry name plus a casting and a Ordnance number cast around the
> > >>>>> opening of the muzzle. Usually the year of casting is included.
> > >>>>> I am not sure which CSA foundries cast 12-pounders, they built about
> > >>>>> 600 early in the War and most were used in the Eastern campaigns.Most
> > >>>>> CSA Artillery was made and repaired at Richmond and Macon. and should
> > >>>>> have Tredegar Iron Works or Richmond Arsenal markings. However the
> > >>>>> Texas gun is not a CSA design. Also no CSA bronze guns were cast after
> > >>>>> late 1863 when the Confederacy lost control of the Tennessee copper
> > >>>>> mines.

>
> > >>>>> If they originated from Mexico they are in all likelihood French.From
> > >>>>> 1860 through 1867 The French occupied Mexico. There would be
> > >>>>> appropriate French markings.

>
> > >>>>> BTW: The term "Napoleon" for the 12-pounder is not inspired by Napoleon
> > >>>>> Bonaparte, but Louis Napoleon. They were the state of art smooth bore
> > >>>>> guns, but the bronze was too soft *for them to be made as rifles. There
> > >>>>> were some attempts to rifle them, but those wore out quickly in use,
> > >>>>> effectively becoming bad smooth bores.

>
> > >>>>http://www.dreamstime.com/texas-capi...agefree1240966
> > >>>> There are some markings there, but I can't make them out from this
> > >>>> photo. *I'll check it out in person next time I'm down there.

>
> > >>>http://www.flickriver.com/photos/adl...0408096/#large
> > >>> Here's a better picture.
> > >>> Upper left: No414
> > >>> Upper right: 1283 (or 1288?)
> > >>> Bottom left: C. C. ?
> > >>> Bottom right: 1864 (that would match the year it was bought) or JB64,
> > >>> but I'm going with 1864

>
> > >> I went to the "original size" and cropped so I could get a better look.
> > >> <http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/No414wc.jpg>

>
> > >> The "No.414" is the number of the piece.
> > >> The "1286 lbs" is the total weight of the bronze casting, almost as
> > >> good as a fingerprint as they always varied.
> > >> 1864 is the casting year.
> > >> ... and "CO" is Confederate States Ordnance.

>
> > >> This particular 12-pounder "Napoleon" must have been one of the few CSA
> > >> guns cast using a Federal mold, probably captured from Harpers Ferry..
> > >> The CSA only built between 500-600 of these guns, and the majority were
> > >> cast without the barrel flare, or bulge. So "No.414" is a rarity
> > >> indeed. Moving it to Texas is probably what saved it.
> > >> The Feds by comparison cast some 1,800 during the war.

>
> > > This is interesting. *With the fall of Vicksburg and Port Hudson (near
> > > Baton Rouge LA) in July 1863 the Union had control of the Mississippi
> > > River and split the South in two parts. *If this cannon were cast in
> > > the East in 1864, how did it make it to Texas? *I suppose it could
> > > have been smuggled across the river when the Union gunboats weren't
> > > around.

>
> > There is a good chance there was a rearming effort by the last of the
> > Western Gulf blockade runners. Galveston was recaptured by Gen. John
> > Magruder on Jan 1, 1863, and they retained control until the end of the
> > war.
> > From March 1864 not much was getting out of Wilmington, or Savannah.
> > Mobile was closed to the CSA in August 1864. Any time after that is
> > unlikely, and even then the CSN *had lost most of its government
> > transports. Some private foreign blockade runners were still taking the
> > risk, so that is a possibility.

>
> > Otherwise the only other option would have been overland through Union
> > lines, and that would have been tough, but not impossible.

>
> Well, here is another possibility:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Campaign
> It turns out that some Union artillery were captured by the
> Confederates in the battle of Mansfield during the Red River campaign
> in 1864. *The account goes on to say SOME of the cannon were
> recaptured later, which would lead me to believe that the Confederates
> managed to hold on to the rest. *I wonder if they changed the markings
> on those guns? *That would explain the Federal design, among other
> things.


Ah, and if you look at the photograph again, The area around where
"C.O." is looks pretty battered, and it looks like there might be a
portion of another letter visible.
 
Reply With Quote
 
PeterN
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-17-2011
On 6/16/2011 10:55 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> On 2011-06-16 18:49:56 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
>> On Jun 16, 8:02 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>>> On 2011-06-16 17:18:26 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>>>> On Jun 16, 7:00 pm, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 16, 9:07 am, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrot

>> e:
>>>>>> On 2011-06-16 06:08:37 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>>>>>>> On Jun 15, 9:14 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2011-06-15 18:38:35 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>>>>>>> said:
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 15, 8:06 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:

>
>>>>>>>>> Otter: Weapons; Nice bronze cannon, it looks like an M1857
>>>>>>>>> "Napoleon"
>>>>>>>>>> 12-pounder to me.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are probably right. According to my source, it is a bronze
>>>>>>>>> 12- lb
>>>>>>>>> light field gun bought by the governor of Texas in 1864 "to
>>>>>>>>> keep the
>>>>>>>>> peace in the surrounding area".
>>>
>>>>>>>> That would be about right for that gun. The Federals and CSA
>>>>>>>> both used
>>>>>>>> 12-Lb "Napoleons". However the two versions differed in that the
>>>>>>>> Federal model had a a slight muzzle flair or "bulge" for
>>>>>>>> strengthening
>>>>>>>> at the muzzle. The CSA version did not have this functional
>>>>>>>> adornment.
>>>>>>>> The CSA barrel tapered smoothly down its entire length without a
>>>>>>>> bulge.
>>>>>>>> The example you show, has the muzzle flair and having been
>>>>>>>> acquired by
>>>>>>>> Texas in 1864, is probably a post Civil War surplus Federal N1857
>>>>>>>> 12-Pounder "Napoleon".
>>>>>>>> During the War smooth bore guns such as this became obsolete and
>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>> replaced with rifled guns, such as the "Parrot" and breach
>>>>>>>> loader guns.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Nice and well maintained and polished. Over the years most other
>>>>>>>> surviving examples have developed a green patina to the bronze
>>>>>>>> barrel.
>>>
>>>>>>> It was still about a year before the end of the Civil War when the
>>>>>>> bronze cannon were bought (there are 2 of them). I believe Austin
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> still under CSA control at the time. Not sure where the guns came
>>>>>>> from, but possibly Mexico. There were "cotton roads" to Mexico
>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>> the Civil War where cotton was exchanged for weapons and supplies.
>>>
>>>>>> They could also be a captured Federal cannon.
>>>>>> There is a way to check on the origins. The next time you are in the
>>>>>> area, take a look at the end of the muzzle. All Federal guns had a
>>>>>> foundry name plus a casting and a Ordnance number cast around the
>>>>>> opening of the muzzle. Usually the year of casting is included.
>>>>>> I am not sure which CSA foundries cast 12-pounders, they built about
>>>>>> 600 early in the War and most were used in the Eastern campaigns.
>>>>>> Most
>>>>>> CSA Artillery was made and repaired at Richmond and Macon. and should
>>>>>> have Tredegar Iron Works or Richmond Arsenal markings. However the
>>>>>> Texas gun is not a CSA design. Also no CSA bronze guns were cast
>>>>>> after
>>>>>> late 1863 when the Confederacy lost control of the Tennessee copper
>>>>>> mines.
>>>
>>>>>> If they originated from Mexico they are in all likelihood French.
>>>>>> From
>>>>>> 1860 through 1867 The French occupied Mexico. There would be
>>>>>> appropriate French markings.
>>>
>>>>>> BTW: The term "Napoleon" for the 12-pounder is not inspired by
>>>>>> Napoleon
>>>>>> Bonaparte, but Louis Napoleon. They were the state of art smooth bore
>>>>>> guns, but the bronze was too soft for them to be made as rifles.
>>>>>> There
>>>>>> were some attempts to rifle them, but those wore out quickly in use,
>>>>>> effectively becoming bad smooth bores.
>>>
>>>>> http://www.dreamstime.com/texas-capi...agefree1240966
>>>>> There are some markings there, but I can't make them out from this
>>>>> photo. I'll check it out in person next time I'm down there.
>>>
>>>> http://www.flickriver.com/photos/adl...0408096/#large
>>>> Here's a better picture.
>>>> Upper left: No414
>>>> Upper right: 1283 (or 1288?)
>>>> Bottom left: C. C. ?
>>>> Bottom right: 1864 (that would match the year it was bought) or JB64,
>>>> but I'm going with 1864
>>>
>>> I went to the "original size" and cropped so I could get a better look.
>>> <http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/No414wc.jpg>
>>>
>>> The "No.414" is the number of the piece.
>>> The "1286 lbs" is the total weight of the bronze casting, almost as
>>> good as a fingerprint as they always varied.
>>> 1864 is the casting year.
>>> ... and "CO" is Confederate States Ordnance.
>>>
>>> This particular 12-pounder "Napoleon" must have been one of the few CSA
>>> guns cast using a Federal mold, probably captured from Harpers Ferry.
>>> The CSA only built between 500-600 of these guns, and the majority were
>>> cast without the barrel flare, or bulge. So "No.414" is a rarity
>>> indeed. Moving it to Texas is probably what saved it.
>>> The Feds by comparison cast some 1,800 during the war.

>>
>> This is interesting. With the fall of Vicksburg and Port Hudson (near
>> Baton Rouge LA) in July 1863 the Union had control of the Mississippi
>> River and split the South in two parts. If this cannon were cast in
>> the East in 1864, how did it make it to Texas? I suppose it could
>> have been smuggled across the river when the Union gunboats weren't
>> around.

>
> There is a good chance there was a rearming effort by the last of the
> Western Gulf blockade runners. Galveston was recaptured by Gen. John
> Magruder on Jan 1, 1863, and they retained control until the end of the
> war.
> From March 1864 not much was getting out of Wilmington, or Savannah.
> Mobile was closed to the CSA in August 1864. Any time after that is
> unlikely, and even then the CSN had lost most of its government
> transports. Some private foreign blockade runners were still taking the
> risk, so that is a possibility.
>
> Otherwise the only other option would have been overland through Union
> lines, and that would have been tough, but not impossible.
>


I haven't figured out how one can travel from the East Coast to Texas,
overland, without crossing the Mississippi, while keeping South of a
line not more than about 100 miles North of the Mason Dixon line.

--
Peter
 
Reply With Quote
 
PeterN
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-17-2011
On 6/16/2011 11:47 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> On 2011-06-16 19:55:19 -0700, Savageduck
> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> said:
>
>> On 2011-06-16 18:49:56 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>>
>>> On Jun 16, 8:02 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2011-06-16 17:18:26 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>>>>> On Jun 16, 7:00 pm, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>>> On Jun 16, 9:07 am, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrot
>>> e:
>>>>>>> On 2011-06-16 06:08:37 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>>>>>>>> On Jun 15, 9:14 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2011-06-15 18:38:35 -0700, otter <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>>>>>>>> said:
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 15, 8:06 pm, Savageduck
>>>>>>>>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>>
>>>>>>>>>> Otter: Weapons; Nice bronze cannon, it looks like an M1857
>>>>>>>>>> "Napoleon"
>>>>>>>>>>> 12-pounder to me.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are probably right. According to my source, it is a bronze
>>>>>>>>>> 12- lb
>>>>>>>>>> light field gun bought by the governor of Texas in 1864 "to
>>>>>>>>>> keep the
>>>>>>>>>> peace in the surrounding area".
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That would be about right for that gun. The Federals and CSA
>>>>>>>>> both used
>>>>>>>>> 12-Lb "Napoleons". However the two versions differed in that the
>>>>>>>>> Federal model had a a slight muzzle flair or "bulge" for
>>>>>>>>> strengthening
>>>>>>>>> at the muzzle. The CSA version did not have this functional
>>>>>>>>> adornment.
>>>>>>>>> The CSA barrel tapered smoothly down its entire length without
>>>>>>>>> a bulge.
>>>>>>>>> The example you show, has the muzzle flair and having been
>>>>>>>>> acquired by
>>>>>>>>> Texas in 1864, is probably a post Civil War surplus Federal N1857
>>>>>>>>> 12-Pounder "Napoleon".
>>>>>>>>> During the War smooth bore guns such as this became obsolete
>>>>>>>>> and were
>>>>>>>>> replaced with rifled guns, such as the "Parrot" and breach
>>>>>>>>> loader guns.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nice and well maintained and polished. Over the years most other
>>>>>>>>> surviving examples have developed a green patina to the bronze
>>>>>>>>> barrel.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was still about a year before the end of the Civil War when the
>>>>>>>> bronze cannon were bought (there are 2 of them). I believe
>>>>>>>> Austin was
>>>>>>>> still under CSA control at the time. Not sure where the guns came
>>>>>>>> from, but possibly Mexico. There were "cotton roads" to Mexico
>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>> the Civil War where cotton was exchanged for weapons and supplies.
>>>>
>>>>>>> They could also be a captured Federal cannon.
>>>>>>> There is a way to check on the origins. The next time you are in the
>>>>>>> area, take a look at the end of the muzzle. All Federal guns had a
>>>>>>> foundry name plus a casting and a Ordnance number cast around the
>>>>>>> opening of the muzzle. Usually the year of casting is included.
>>>>>>> I am not sure which CSA foundries cast 12-pounders, they built about
>>>>>>> 600 early in the War and most were used in the Eastern campaigns.
>>>>>>> Most
>>>>>>> CSA Artillery was made and repaired at Richmond and Macon. and
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> have Tredegar Iron Works or Richmond Arsenal markings. However the
>>>>>>> Texas gun is not a CSA design. Also no CSA bronze guns were cast
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>> late 1863 when the Confederacy lost control of the Tennessee copper
>>>>>>> mines.
>>>>
>>>>>>> If they originated from Mexico they are in all likelihood French.
>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>> 1860 through 1867 The French occupied Mexico. There would be
>>>>>>> appropriate French markings.
>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW: The term "Napoleon" for the 12-pounder is not inspired by
>>>>>>> Napoleon
>>>>>>> Bonaparte, but Louis Napoleon. They were the state of art smooth
>>>>>>> bore
>>>>>>> guns, but the bronze was too soft for them to be made as rifles.
>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>> were some attempts to rifle them, but those wore out quickly in use,
>>>>>>> effectively becoming bad smooth bores.
>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.dreamstime.com/texas-capi...agefree1240966
>>>>>> There are some markings there, but I can't make them out from this
>>>>>> photo. I'll check it out in person next time I'm down there.
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.flickriver.com/photos/adl...0408096/#large
>>>>> Here's a better picture.
>>>>> Upper left: No414
>>>>> Upper right: 1283 (or 1288?)
>>>>> Bottom left: C. C. ?
>>>>> Bottom right: 1864 (that would match the year it was bought) or JB64,
>>>>> but I'm going with 1864
>>>>
>>>> I went to the "original size" and cropped so I could get a better look.
>>>> <http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/No414wc.jpg>
>>>>
>>>> The "No.414" is the number of the piece.
>>>> The "1286 lbs" is the total weight of the bronze casting, almost as
>>>> good as a fingerprint as they always varied.
>>>> 1864 is the casting year.
>>>> ... and "CO" is Confederate States Ordnance.
>>>>
>>>> This particular 12-pounder "Napoleon" must have been one of the few CSA
>>>> guns cast using a Federal mold, probably captured from Harpers Ferry.
>>>> The CSA only built between 500-600 of these guns, and the majority were
>>>> cast without the barrel flare, or bulge. So "No.414" is a rarity
>>>> indeed. Moving it to Texas is probably what saved it.
>>>> The Feds by comparison cast some 1,800 during the war.
>>>
>>> This is interesting. With the fall of Vicksburg and Port Hudson (near
>>> Baton Rouge LA) in July 1863 the Union had control of the Mississippi
>>> River and split the South in two parts. If this cannon were cast in
>>> the East in 1864, how did it make it to Texas? I suppose it could
>>> have been smuggled across the river when the Union gunboats weren't
>>> around.

>>
>> There is a good chance there was a rearming effort by the last of the
>> Western Gulf blockade runners. Galveston was recaptured by Gen. John
>> Magruder on Jan 1, 1863, and they retained control until the end of
>> the war.
>> From March 1864 not much was getting out of Wilmington, or Savannah.
>> Mobile was closed to the CSA in August 1864. Any time after that is
>> unlikely, and even then the CSN had lost most of its government
>> transports. Some private foreign blockade runners were still taking
>> the risk, so that is a possibility.
>>
>> Otherwise the only other option would have been overland through Union
>> lines, and that would have been tough, but not impossible.

>
> A little more research reveals that the 3rd Texas Infantry was posted
> along the Mexican border for most the war, with one brief absence in
> September 1863, and reoccupation in 1864, at Fort Brown (Brownsville),
> and that there was regular traffic across the the Rio Grande to and from
> Matamoras, Mexico.
> Matamoras was used as a destination for French, English and German
> private blockade runners since that port could not be blockaded due to
> its neutrality. Also interference with the foreign flagged ships would
> breach current International marine law.
> So there is another possibility.
>


IMHO The most probable alternative.

--
Peter
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Re: [SI] Weapons are available for viewing, finally! tony cooper Digital Photography 9 06-30-2011 06:38 AM
Re: [SI] Weapons are available for viewing, finally! Bruce Digital Photography 9 06-18-2011 08:48 PM
Re: Weapons are available for viewing, finally! Whisky-dave Digital Photography 4 06-18-2011 05:34 AM
[OT] Weapons of Mass Photography Richard Cockburn Digital Photography 10 05-15-2004 05:50 PM
is google hacked? search for "weapons of mass destruction" alfa1 Computer Support 7 07-05-2003 07:40 PM



Advertisments