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Re: I Miss my Viewfinder !

 
 
Ray Fischer
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      06-12-2011
Mxsmanic <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Ray Fischer writes:
>
>> In fact random data are RANDOM. That means that ANY string of
>> bits can occur, even a sequence of repeating bits which is highly
>> compressable.

>
>In the set of random messages of length n, all messages are equally probable.


Even the compressable ones that you claimed don't exist.

>Therefore there is no compression algorithm that will produce any compression
>of random messages consistently.


You _can_ be taught.

>A sequence of repeating bits is no more compressible than any other sequence
>of bits, as it depends entirely on the algorithm. All compression algorithms
>require that there be patterns in the input data, otherwise they produce no
>net compression. Random data has no pattern, so it cannot be compressed.


Whoops, you made the same mistake again.

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Ray Fischer | Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) | The new GOP ideal

 
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Ray Fischer
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      06-12-2011
Mxsmanic <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Ray Fischer writes:
>
>> Nope. Digital TV is compressed. Analog wasn't.

>
>The compression depends on strong patterns in image content.


Which is exactly what is broadcast.

People quickly get bored watching random noise.

>> That's not compression.

>
>It compresses noise.


It does not. RIAA equalization has nothing at all to do with noise or
compression.

>> DBX did better compression, but even so it's nothing like the
>> compression available with digital TV.

>
>The compression used with digital TV is so aggressive that it often produces
>obvious artifacts.


You are an idiot. The compression used is adjustable and dependant
upon the broadcaster. It can be nearly undetectable.

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Ray Fischer | Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
(E-Mail Removed) | The new GOP ideal

 
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Ray Fischer
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      06-12-2011
Mxsmanic <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Eric Stevens writes:
>
>> What in your mind is a test for randomness?

>
>There is no perfect test for randomness, but there are many partial tests.
>Real coin tosses will pass all the tests. Made-up coin tosses won't.


Is a sequence of 100 heads in a row random?

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Ray Fischer | Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
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Ray Fischer
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      06-12-2011
Mxsmanic <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Ray Fischer writes:
>
>> Snow and ghosting were two common artifacts, as well as strange colors
>> blooming, and moire.

>
>Not in the latter days of analog television.


You're lying.

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Ray Fischer | Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
(E-Mail Removed) | The new GOP ideal

 
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Ray Fischer
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      06-12-2011
Mxsmanic <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Ray Fischer writes:
>
>> Is a sequence of 100 heads in a row random?

>
>There's no way to say for sure.


And yet you continue to make claims about randomness.

Obviously you really don't know what you're babbling about.

> It is highly improbable.


It is exactly as probable as any other sequence of 100 coin tosses.

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Ray Fischer | Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
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Ray Fischer
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      06-12-2011
Mxsmanic <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Ray Fischer writes:
>
>> You're lying.

>
>I was there.


As was I. That's how I know you're lying.

> Strange colors, blooming, and ghosting were all essentially
>nonexistent


You're lying.

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Ray Fischer | Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
(E-Mail Removed) | The new GOP ideal

 
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K W Hart
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      06-12-2011

"Mxsmanic" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Ray Fischer writes:
>
>> Snow and ghosting were two common artifacts, as well as strange colors
>> blooming, and moire.

>
> Not in the latter days of analog television.


"Snow" & "Ghosting" are (were) problems encountered in the transmission of
the television signal. Snow is random noise in the picture that occurs with
a weak signal. Ghosting is a secondary image that is caused when there is a
dual path for the signal to get to the antenna. Ghosting often occurred in a
good reception area, usually in an industrial area, where the receiving
antenna had a direct line of sight to the transmitting antenna, but there
was also a signal reflected off a metal structure that arrived at the
receiving antenna just a short time later. It could of course occur under
other circumstances, but this was most common.
Snow and ghosting could also occur in a cable distribution system: snow due
to a weak signal, and ghosting due to an impedance mismatch causing a
standing wave in the system.

I don't see how "latter days" of analog television has anything to do with
it.


 
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Whisky-dave
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      06-13-2011
On Jun 12, 3:49*am, Mxsmanic <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Ray Fischer writes:
> > In fact random data are RANDOM. *That means that ANY string of
> > bits can occur, even a sequence of repeating bits which is highly
> > compressable.

>
> In the set of random messages of length n, all messages are equally probable.
> Therefore there is no compression algorithm that will produce any compression
> of random messages consistently. A given algorithm will compress some random
> messages, but inevitably it will make an equal number of random messages
> longer after "compression." This is an unavoidable consequence of information
> theory.
>
> A sequence of repeating bits is no more compressible than any other sequence
> of bits, as it depends entirely on the algorithm. All compression algorithms
> require that there be patterns in the input data, otherwise they produce no
> net compression. Random data has no pattern, so it cannot be compressed.


Yes it can quite easily.
It's done every day billions of times in email.

>
> Thus, there is no way to compress random messages.


it done.

>
> > There's an experiment that demonstrates this fact:
> > Create two groups of people and have each write down, in secret,
> > a sequence of 100 random coin tosses.

>
> > Have one group make up the coin tosses and have the other group use
> > an actual coin.

>
> > You can tell which group used an actual coin because it will have the
> > longest sequence of repeated heads or tails. *People, when they make
> > up "random" sequences, have a strong tendency to avoid patterns.

>
> Completely false.


It's true it';s been proved.

>The actual coin tosses will pass all tests for randomness;


What are these tests ?

> the made-up coin tosses will not, and in fact there will always be patterns in
> the made-up tosses. Cryptanalysis takes advantage of this.


 
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Whisky-dave
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      06-13-2011
On Jun 12, 8:50*pm, Mxsmanic <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Ray Fischer writes:
> > Is a sequence of 100 heads in a row random?

>
> There's no way to say for sure. It is highly improbable.


So can it be compressed or not ?


 
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Whisky-dave
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      06-13-2011
On Jun 11, 7:09*pm, Mxsmanic <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Wolfgang Weisselberg writes:
> > I don't know about you, if I watch TV, I look at the output,
> > not at transport channels. *The output is better.

>
> I have seen substantial artifacts in digital TV.


Me too, they are usually the free channels, but what does it prove
nothing,
other than that fact that quality can be reduced to save money.


 
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