«

On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 16:03:12 +0200, Joachim Schmitz wrote:
> Geoff wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 12:50:46 +0200, "Joachim Schmitz" wrote:
>>> Geoff wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:07:50 +0200, "Joachim Schmitz" wrote:
>>>>> Geoff wrote: ...
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICAO_sp...lphabet#Digits
....
>>>>> Where is the German part in this?
>>>>
>>>> Oktoeight.
>>>
>>> Neither "Okto" nor "Eight" is German. "Acht" is.
>>>
>> Tell that to the ITU.
>
> Do they claim this to be German?
>
>> Okto is not in any language but they wrote it that way. The derivation
>> is from the German acht.
>
> More probably from the Latin octo. German acht maybe derived from that,
> but surely not the other way round.
....

According to ref below, Latin octo, German acht, Greek οκτώ (októ)
"are hypothesized to" derive from Proto-Indo-European oḱtṓw
(that is, o, k with acute accent, t, macron o with acute accent, w).

<http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendixroto-Indo-European/o%E1%B8%B1t%E1%B9%93w>

--
jiw

In article <>,
Kenneth Brody <> wrote:

> On 3/29/2011 6:24 AM, Chris H wrote:
> [...]
> > Clever code is usually an oxymoron.
> >
> > BTW That is why English is the most common language on the planet as a
> > second language. It is easier to teach basic English that can be
> > understood than any other language. (Even Americans manage basic
> > English
>
> Well, _most_ of us can. I've seen plenty who struggle with even the basics.
>

Speak for yourself. I recognize, publish, and reject his bigotry.

--
Michael Press

In article <daec68->,
William Ahern <> wrote:

> Chris H <> wrote:
> > In message <17q968->, William Ahern
> > <> writes
> > >Chris H <> wrote:
> > >> Apparently English is the easiest language to get a basic grasp and be
> > >> understood.
> > >
> > >Citations? No anecdotes, please.
>
> > Apparently it was in WW2 the British needed to teach pilots from many
> > nationalities (ie from all over the empire as was and other occupied
> > countries in Europe) to fly and it was found that Basic English could be
> > taught faster than anything else.
>
> > Not idea where you would find the citation on the Internet. When I read
> > about it the information was in a book. Remember those?
>
> I ask because over the years I've heard claims such as you repeated, and
> have personally investigated notions about English and claims of English
> proficiency. About ten or twelve years ago I sent a letter to the Embassy of
> India--the cultural attache, I think--inquiring about English proficiency. I
> occassionaly poke around in books and articles looking for more solid
> analyses, rather than anecdotes from English speakers or enthusiastic ESL
> speakers; they're few and far between.
>
> For example, while the Indian gov't will claim 20-25% English proficiency
> (generally conversational fluency if not stated explicitly), some
> independent reports put conversational fluency at 1-5%. Most books repeat
> various numbers without citations to sources. As far as I can gather, there
> are various reasons for the gaps, all interesting in themselves (untested
> assumptions about the efficacy of compulsory language education; economic
> competitiveness pressures).
>
> This topic is interesting because it's a niche area to study and examine
> cultural biases, and in general the dynamics of globalization.

I expect English was easiest to teach to WWII pilots
in England because everybody spoke English in the pubs.

A pint of your best bitter, s'il vous plaît.

--
Michael Press

On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 12:33:14 -0700, Michael Press <>
wrote:

>In article <daec68->,
> William Ahern <> wrote:
>
>> Chris H <> wrote:
>> > In message <17q968->, William Ahern
>> > <> writes
>> > >Chris H <> wrote:
>> > >> Apparently English is the easiest language to get a basic grasp and be
>> > >> understood.
>> > >
>> > >Citations? No anecdotes, please.
>>
>> > Apparently it was in WW2 the British needed to teach pilots from many
>> > nationalities (ie from all over the empire as was and other occupied
>> > countries in Europe) to fly and it was found that Basic English could be
>> > taught faster than anything else.
>>
>> > Not idea where you would find the citation on the Internet. When I read
>> > about it the information was in a book. Remember those?
>>
>> I ask because over the years I've heard claims such as you repeated, and
>> have personally investigated notions about English and claims of English
>> proficiency. About ten or twelve years ago I sent a letter to the Embassy of
>> India--the cultural attache, I think--inquiring about English proficiency. I
>> occassionaly poke around in books and articles looking for more solid
>> analyses, rather than anecdotes from English speakers or enthusiastic ESL
>> speakers; they're few and far between.
>>
>> For example, while the Indian gov't will claim 20-25% English proficiency
>> (generally conversational fluency if not stated explicitly), some
>> independent reports put conversational fluency at 1-5%. Most books repeat
>> various numbers without citations to sources. As far as I can gather, there
>> are various reasons for the gaps, all interesting in themselves (untested
>> assumptions about the efficacy of compulsory language education; economic
>> competitiveness pressures).
>>
>> This topic is interesting because it's a niche area to study and examine
>> cultural biases, and in general the dynamics of globalization.
>
>I expect English was easiest to teach to WWII pilots
>in England because everybody spoke English in the pubs.
>
>A pint of your best bitter, s'il vous plaît.

.... and anyone speaking German in the pubs was shot before they could
down their draught.

On Mar 29, 9:14*pm, Walter Banks <wal...@bytecraft.com> wrote:
> Chris H wrote:
>
> > egroups.com>, bert <bert.hutchi...@btinternet.com> writes
>
> > >That would make C a better language for commercial purposes,
> > >wouldn't it? *When I worked as a programmer, the management
> > >attitude was that they didn't want clever code; they wanted
> > >code that other staff could maintain and develop as easily
> > >as its author, especially after he had gone. *On that basis,
> > >the lowest-IQ language would be the best of all!
>
> > I couldn't agree more!
>
> > Clever code is usually an oxymoron.
>
> > BTW That is why English is the most common language on the planet as a
> > second language. It is easier to teach basic English that can be
> > understood than any other language.
>
> English idioms are very difficult for non native english speaking
> people to master. English idiom dictionaries in Japan are as common
> as English Japanese dictionaries

Idiom in any language is hard to master and it's usually best to stay
away from it as much as possible, unless you're quite sure of tge
meaning and the implications of the idiom used.

In article
<1591567a-4115-4ada-a59d->,
"Kleuskes & Moos" <> wrote:

> On Mar 29, 9:14Â*pm, Walter Banks <wal...@bytecraft.com> wrote:
> > Chris H wrote:
> >
> > > egroups.com>, bert <bert.hutchi...@btinternet.com> writes
> >
> > > >That would make C a better language for commercial purposes,
> > > >wouldn't it? Â*When I worked as a programmer, the management
> > > >attitude was that they didn't want clever code; they wanted
> > > >code that other staff could maintain and develop as easily
> > > >as its author, especially after he had gone. Â*On that basis,
> > > >the lowest-IQ language would be the best of all!
> >
> > > I couldn't agree more!
> >
> > > Clever code is usually an oxymoron.
> >
> > > BTW That is why English is the most common language on the planet as a
> > > second language. It is easier to teach basic English that can be
> > > understood than any other language.
> >
> > English idioms are very difficult for non native english speaking
> > people to master. English idiom dictionaries in Japan are as common
> > as English Japanese dictionaries
>
> Idiom in any language is hard to master and it's usually best to stay
> away from it as much as possible, unless you're quite sure of tge
> meaning and the implications of the idiom used.

Well before google search a bunch of us were at dinner
and something I had wondered about came to mind, so I
decided to ask a USA born, native English speaker who
had a certificate attesting to a completion of a course
in French studies from Université Paris-Sorbonne
(before they reorganized it all) . "Scarlet," I asked,
"what does `je ne sais quoi' mean?" Immediately she
said "I don't know what." My jaw dropped, Scarlet
stared at me with an amused expression, and then the
penny dropped.

Later told a friend about the incident. He stared at me
blankly; and did not get the joke. Probably has not to
this day, as I never explained it to him.

--
Michael Press

In article <rubrum->,
Michael Press <> wrote:

> In article
> <1591567a-4115-4ada-a59d->,
> "Kleuskes & Moos" <> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 29, 9:14Â*pm, Walter Banks <wal...@bytecraft.com> wrote:
> > > Chris H wrote:
> > >
> > > > egroups.com>, bert <bert.hutchi...@btinternet.com> writes
> > >
> > > > >That would make C a better language for commercial purposes,
> > > > >wouldn't it? Â*When I worked as a programmer, the management
> > > > >attitude was that they didn't want clever code; they wanted
> > > > >code that other staff could maintain and develop as easily
> > > > >as its author, especially after he had gone. Â*On that basis,
> > > > >the lowest-IQ language would be the best of all!
> > >
> > > > I couldn't agree more!
> > >
> > > > Clever code is usually an oxymoron.
> > >
> > > > BTW That is why English is the most common language on the planet as a
> > > > second language. It is easier to teach basic English that can be
> > > > understood than any other language.
> > >
> > > English idioms are very difficult for non native english speaking
> > > people to master. English idiom dictionaries in Japan are as common
> > > as English Japanese dictionaries
> >
> > Idiom in any language is hard to master and it's usually best to stay
> > away from it as much as possible, unless you're quite sure of tge
> > meaning and the implications of the idiom used.
>
> Well before google search a bunch of us were at dinner
> and something I had wondered about came to mind, so I
> decided to ask a USA born, native English speaker who
> had a certificate attesting to a completion of a course
> in French studies from Université Paris-Sorbonne
> (before they reorganized it all) . "Scarlet," I asked,
> "what does `je ne sais quoi' mean?" Immediately she
> said "I don't know what." My jaw dropped, Scarlet
> stared at me with an amused expression, and then the
> penny dropped.
>
> Later told a friend about the incident. He stared at me
> blankly; and did not get the joke. Probably has not to
> this day, as I never explained it to him.

I don't speak French, but I assume it's similar to "What's the
difference between ignorance and apathy?", "I don't know, and I don't
care."

In message <mstorkamp->,
Mark Storkamp <> writes
>In article <rubrum->,
> Michael Press <> wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <1591567a-4115-4ada-a59d->,
>> "Kleuskes & Moos" <> wrote:
>>
>> > On Mar 29, 9:14Â*pm, Walter Banks <wal...@bytecraft.com> wrote:
>> > > Chris H wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > egroups.com>, bert <bert.hutchi...@btinternet.com> writes
>> > >
>> > > > >That would make C a better language for commercial purposes,
>> > > > >wouldn't it? Â*When I worked as a programmer, the management
>> > > > >attitude was that they didn't want clever code; they wanted
>> > > > >code that other staff could maintain and develop as easily
>> > > > >as its author, especially after he had gone. Â*On that basis,
>> > > > >the lowest-IQ language would be the best of all!
>> > >
>> > > > I couldn't agree more!
>> > >
>> > > > Clever code is usually an oxymoron.
>> > >
>> > > > BTW That is why English is the most common language on the planet as a
>> > > > second language. It is easier to teach basic English that can be
>> > > > understood than any other language.
>> > >
>> > > English idioms are very difficult for non native english speaking
>> > > people to master. English idiom dictionaries in Japan are as common
>> > > as English Japanese dictionaries
>> >
>> > Idiom in any language is hard to master and it's usually best to stay
>> > away from it as much as possible, unless you're quite sure of tge
>> > meaning and the implications of the idiom used.
>>
>> Well before google search a bunch of us were at dinner
>> and something I had wondered about came to mind, so I
>> decided to ask a USA born, native English speaker who
>> had a certificate attesting to a completion of a course
>> in French studies from Université Paris-Sorbonne
>> (before they reorganized it all) . "Scarlet," I asked,
>> "what does `je ne sais quoi' mean?" Immediately she
>> said "I don't know what." My jaw dropped, Scarlet
>> stared at me with an amused expression, and then the
>> penny dropped.
>>
>> Later told a friend about the incident. He stared at me
>> blankly; and did not get the joke. Probably has not to
>> this day, as I never explained it to him.
>
>I don't speak French, but I assume it's similar to "What's the
>difference between ignorance and apathy?", "I don't know, and I don't
>care."

No it is something indescribable or undeniable

eg "He has a certain je ne sais quoi" means he has that indefinable
quality that set him apart. Eg James Bond has je ne sais quoi'


--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Chris H wrote:
) In message <mstorkamp->,
) Mark Storkamp <> writes
)>In article <rubrum->,
)> Michael Press <> wrote:
)>> Well before google search a bunch of us were at dinner
)>> and something I had wondered about came to mind, so I
)>> decided to ask a USA born, native English speaker who
)>> had a certificate attesting to a completion of a course
)>> in French studies from Universit?? Paris-Sorbonne
)>> (before they reorganized it all) . "Scarlet," I asked,
)>> "what does `je ne sais quoi' mean?" Immediately she
)>> said "I don't know what." My jaw dropped, Scarlet
)>> stared at me with an amused expression, and then the
)>> penny dropped.
)>>
)>> Later told a friend about the incident. He stared at me
)>> blankly; and did not get the joke. Probably has not to
)>> this day, as I never explained it to him.
)>
)>I don't speak French, but I assume it's similar to "What's the
)>difference between ignorance and apathy?", "I don't know, and I don't
)>care."
)
) No it is something indescribable or undeniable
)
) eg "He has a certain je ne sais quoi" means he has that indefinable
) quality that set him apart. Eg James Bond has je ne sais quoi'

I think you missed the point, he wasn't talking about the phrase itself.

Chris was referring to the analogy between the two jokes: Both of them
have an actual answer, but the answer sounds as if the answerer is not
actually answering the question.


SaSW, Willem
--
Disclaimer: I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
made in the above text. For all I know I might be
drugged or something..
No I'm not paranoid. You all think I'm paranoid, don't you !
#EOT

Michael Press <> writes:

> Well before google search a bunch of us were at dinner
> and something I had wondered about came to mind, so I
> decided to ask a USA born, native English speaker who
> had a certificate attesting to a completion of a course
> in French studies from Université Paris-Sorbonne
> (before they reorganized it all) . "Scarlet," I asked,
> "what does `je ne sais quoi' mean?" Immediately she
> said "I don't know what." My jaw dropped, Scarlet
> stared at me with an amused expression, and then the
> penny dropped.

A conversation as follows took place last night:
She: "What games do we have on the boat"
Me:" Sorry..."
She: "What games to we have on the boat"
Me:" Sorry..."
She... as we both realised what had happened and kept repeating the
endless conversation. You get what entertainment you can round here.
--
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