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I was having trouble figuring out why Panasonic sensors might have
more noise than APS Sony's despite the fact 18 megapixel APS sensors
are close in pixel pitch to the 12 meg 4/3rds. IMO, this is being
caused by the camera switching on (totally out of control of the
operator) the gain control and upping the sensor sensitivity that
way. This also might explain why Panasonic sensors seem to (at the
same ISO) be more sensitive than the APS Sony's. When I mentioned
this in conjunction with dim Pentax K20D (Samsung sensor?) and Nikon
D300 images at the same exposure with identical manual lenses as used
on the Olympus cameras and Panasonic G1.
All sensors are more or less the same, a pixel of a certain size
gathers a specific number of photons. The only reason for seemingly
increased sensitivity and noise has to be gain increases in-camera.
Pity the mfg's saw fit to make this a feature that can't be turned
off.

"RichA" <> wrote in message
news:77c42584-998f-4960-8fe7-...
[]
> All sensors are more or less the same, a pixel of a certain size
> gathers a specific number of photons. The only reason for seemingly
> increased sensitivity and noise has to be gain increases in-camera.
> Pity the mfg's saw fit to make this a feature that can't be turned
> off.

Never heard of quantum efficiency?

On Mar 4, 1:18*am, NameHere <w...@address.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2011 21:34:26 -0800 (PST), RichA <rander3...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I was having trouble figuring out why Panasonic sensors might have
> >more noise than APS Sony's despite the fact 18 megapixel APS sensors
> >are close in pixel pitch to the 12 meg 4/3rds. *IMO, this is being
> >caused by the camera switching on (totally out of control of the
> >operator) the gain control and upping the sensor sensitivity that
> >way. *This also might explain why Panasonic sensors seem to (at the
> >same ISO) be more sensitive than the APS Sony's. *When I mentioned
> >this in conjunction with dim Pentax K20D (Samsung sensor?) and Nikon
> >D300 images at the same exposure with identical manual lenses as used
> >on the Olympus cameras and Panasonic G1.
> >All sensors are more or less the same, a pixel of a certain size
> >gathers a specific number of photons. *The only reason for seemingly
> >increased sensitivity and noise has to be gain increases in-camera.
> >Pity the mfg's saw fit to make this a feature that can't be turned
> >off.
>
> Here's a better theory. The sensor is ignorant to light and has no idea
> what it is.

We see the horrific noise produced by P&S's where gain is increased
hugely in order to secure high ISO speeds (though for what purpose, I
can't imagine) so I think I'm right here. Unless you figure out a way
to change well capacity without changing pixel pitch, you have no
case.

On Mar 4, 3:46*am, "David J Taylor" <david-
tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> "RichA" <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:77c42584-998f-4960-8fe7-...
> []
>
> > All sensors are more or less the same, a pixel of a certain size
> > gathers a specific number of photons. *The only reason for seemingly
> > increased sensitivity and noise has to be gain increases in-camera.
> > Pity the mfg's saw fit to make this a feature that can't be turned
> > off.
>
> Never heard of quantum efficiency?

There are no major differences between sensors today, unless they are
backlit.

"Rich" <> wrote in message
news:f0dc734a-ca3f-4c51-aba6-...
> On Mar 4, 3:46 am, "David J Taylor" <david-
> tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>> "RichA" <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:77c42584-998f-4960-8fe7-...
>> []
>>
>> > All sensors are more or less the same, a pixel of a certain size
>> > gathers a specific number of photons. The only reason for seemingly
>> > increased sensitivity and noise has to be gain increases in-camera.
>> > Pity the mfg's saw fit to make this a feature that can't be turned
>> > off.
>>
>> Never heard of quantum efficiency?
>
> There are no major differences between sensors today, unless they are
> backlit.

In other words, there /is/ a difference!

On Mar 4, 2:45*pm, "David J Taylor" <david-
tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> "Rich" <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f0dc734a-ca3f-4c51-aba6-...
>
>
>
> > On Mar 4, 3:46 am, "David J Taylor" <david-
> > tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> >> "RichA" <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:77c42584-998f-4960-8fe7-....
> >> []
>
> >> > All sensors are more or less the same, a pixel of a certain size
> >> > gathers a specific number of photons. *The only reason for seemingly
> >> > increased sensitivity and noise has to be gain increases in-camera.
> >> > Pity the mfg's saw fit to make this a feature that can't be turned
> >> > off.
>
> >> Never heard of quantum efficiency?
>
> > There are no major differences between sensors today, unless they are
> > backlit.
>
> In other words, there /is/ a difference!

Not enough to account for the differences in noise and by association,
gain.