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Firstly, each original photo (could be raw or jpg) need to be stored.

Some photos in the album needs to be hidden but not discarded. E.g. almost
duplicate shots, bad shots, embarassing shots, etc.

Sometimes there are edited copies (psd files) associated with each file.

Lastly, there should be a quick way to view an entire album that shows only
the final version (or the original file if unedited) of the non hidden
photos.

Let's say I start off putting all the files of the album in one folder.

Then I want to edit one of the file. If I put the edited psd in the same
folder, then viewing the thumbnails of this folder would show two versions
of this photo (the original and the edited one). If I put the edited psd in
a sub folder, then there is no easy way to view this album showing only the
last edit of each photo.

How do you do it?

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 20:26:08 -0800, "bob" <> wrote:

>Firstly, each original photo (could be raw or jpg) need to be stored.
>
>Some photos in the album needs to be hidden but not discarded. E.g. almost
>duplicate shots, bad shots, embarassing shots, etc.
>
>Sometimes there are edited copies (psd files) associated with each file.
>
>Lastly, there should be a quick way to view an entire album that shows only
>the final version (or the original file if unedited) of the non hidden
>photos.
>
>Let's say I start off putting all the files of the album in one folder.
>
>Then I want to edit one of the file. If I put the edited psd in the same
>folder, then viewing the thumbnails of this folder would show two versions
>of this photo (the original and the edited one). If I put the edited psd in
>a sub folder, then there is no easy way to view this album showing only the
>last edit of each photo.
>
>How do you do it?

It depends on what your software will do. You might want to use one
file for the most current edits and make that file viewed as a slide
show. Otherwise, use one master file with two sub-folders; one for
all shots and one for most recent edits. It's not difficult to
replace the previous edit with the new edit.

What are you calling an "album" and what are you using to view it?

Personally, I upload all shots to one file titled by subject, do my
edits, and move copies of the edited photos to a new file.
Periodically, I backup that file to an external HD, burn a DVD with
all of the shots - edited and unedited - and retain just the edited
shots on my C: drive. Moving and replacing images is no big deal.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:06:16 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>On 2011-01-21 20:26:08 -0800, "bob" <> said:
>
>> Firstly, each original photo (could be raw or jpg) need to be stored.
>>
>> Some photos in the album needs to be hidden but not discarded. E.g.
>> almost duplicate shots, bad shots, embarassing shots, etc.
>>
>> Sometimes there are edited copies (psd files) associated with each file.
>>
>> Lastly, there should be a quick way to view an entire album that shows
>> only the final version (or the original file if unedited) of the non
>> hidden photos.
>>
>> Let's say I start off putting all the files of the album in one folder.
>>
>> Then I want to edit one of the file. If I put the edited psd in the
>> same folder, then viewing the thumbnails of this folder would show two
>> versions of this photo (the original and the edited one). If I put the
>> edited psd in a sub folder, then there is no easy way to view this
>> album showing only the last edit of each photo.
>>
>> How do you do it?
>
>First you have not told us what cataloging software you are using.
>
>If you are asking us what you could use, my advise is to get software
>which will make cataloging simple for you. Lightroom 3 and/or CS5
>(+Bridge) will do all you are asking and then some. You will also be
>able to label and sort by type and key words.
>There is also Apple's Aperture, but I understand it has similar
>cataloging functions to Lightroom.
>
>I suggest you visit the Adobe site and download the demo versions of
>Lightroom 3, CS5 or Elements 9. I am not sure if there is a demo
>version of Aperture, but since it seems you are not using a Mac this
>might not matter. None of this is freeware.

I have Lightroom2, but I don't use it for this purpose. I use it
mainly for my own purposes in locating subject matter. I have one
Catalog for family photos and one for my hobby photos.

I know I can sort by keyword and date in the Library module, but I
find it much easier to present photos for family use with the
FastStone image viewer. You know, when other people want to see the
photos from the birthday party or whatever.

I have one C: drive file for each year for family photos. All images
are renumbered in FastStone by date (2011-01-21-001) so they fall
sequentially in that year's file. When I show the birthday party
photos, I go to the date and show them full-screen in FastStone.

This also makes it easy to burn a CD or DVD when I want to send it to
some family member, or to upload all of the files for an event to my
SmugMug site. I know it can be done from Lightroom, but it's easier
for me from my C: drive.

In January, I burn two DVDs with the entire previous year's family
photos and send one to each of my children.

Hobby photos all end up in Lightroom and keyworded (animals, candids,
architecture, etc). "Competitions" is a keyword so I can find all the
photos I've used for the SI or for my camera club.

I don't think my system is the "best", but it works for me.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Jan 21, 10:26*pm, "bob" <nos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Firstly, each original photo (could be raw or jpg) need to be stored.
>
> Some photos in the album needs to be hidden but not discarded. E.g. almost
> duplicate shots, bad shots, embarassing shots, etc.
>
> Sometimes there are edited copies (psd files) associated with each file.
>
> Lastly, there should be a quick way to view an entire album that shows only
> the final version (or the original file if unedited) of the non hidden
> photos.
>
> Let's say I start off putting all the files of the album in one folder.
>
> Then I want to edit one of the file. If I put the edited psd in the same
> folder, then viewing the thumbnails of this folder would show two versions
> of this photo (the original and the edited one). If I put the edited psd in
> a sub folder, then there is no easy way to view this album showing only the
> last edit of each photo.
>
> How do you do it?

Lightroom will take care of all that for you, I've heard Piccasa is
similar, but never used it. If you are trying to do it without
dedicated software (eg just using Windows), it can be a pain.

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 20:26:08 -0800, "bob" <> wrote:
: Firstly, each original photo (could be raw or jpg) need to be stored.
:
: Some photos in the album needs to be hidden but not discarded. E.g. almost
: duplicate shots, bad shots, embarassing shots, etc.
:
: Sometimes there are edited copies (psd files) associated with each file.
:
: Lastly, there should be a quick way to view an entire album that shows only
: the final version (or the original file if unedited) of the non hidden
: photos.
:
: Let's say I start off putting all the files of the album in one folder.
:
: Then I want to edit one of the file. If I put the edited psd in the same
: folder, then viewing the thumbnails of this folder would show two versions
: of this photo (the original and the edited one). If I put the edited psd in
: a sub folder, then there is no easy way to view this album showing only the
: last edit of each photo.
:
: How do you do it?

I shoot only in RAW and do most of my editing as non-destructive changes to
the RAW files. I organize the RAW files into Windows folders and subfolders,
sometimes by date or event and sometimes by shooting location. For pictures I
want to display, I create a new folder (at work that will usually be in our
departmental space or the departmental space of the client organization) and
populate it with converted JPEGs of just those pictures. Since I'm not
particularly constrained by space considerations, I usually use uncompressed
JPEG at a resolution suitable for most Web-related uses. If a client needs a
different resolution (lower to be emailed out or higher for a brochure, report
cover, or whatever), I'll run off another JPEG.

Obviously this workflow is too primitive for the complex editing and
cataloguing that some people in this discussion often do. But it works well
enough for me so far, and has the advantage of not requiring the external
database on which most commercial cataloguing systems seem to rely.

I often shoot with two cameras and/or merge my pictures with pictures shot by
my wife, and there's one lesson I've learned the hard way: You have to make
absolutely sure that the date and time settings on all your cameras are
accurately synchronized. I did two shoots last week in which it appears that
my two cameras were off by about a minute. It makes for a frustrating editing
session to sort by date and time and have the shots displayed in only
approximately the right order. :^|

Bob

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:37:25 -0500, "tcroyer" <> wrote:
: "bob" <> wrote in message
: news:ihdm8u$8ck$...
: > Firstly, each original photo (could be raw or jpg) need to be stored.
: >
: > Some photos in the album needs to be hidden but not discarded. E.g. almost
: > duplicate shots, bad shots, embarassing shots, etc.
: >
: > Sometimes there are edited copies (psd files) associated with each file.
: >
:
: I use Elements 9 and am happy. But I also supplement the Elements albums
: with special files so I can easily create CDs for customers.
:
: I'm not sure I understand the need to keep near duplicates (at least for
: very long) or bad and embarassing shots. The best move I made was learning
: to actually delete unusable shots.

I second that!

Bob

> I often shoot with two cameras and/or merge my pictures with pictures shot
> by
> my wife, and there's one lesson I've learned the hard way: You have to
> make
> absolutely sure that the date and time settings on all your cameras are
> accurately synchronized. I did two shoots last week in which it appears
> that
> my two cameras were off by about a minute. It makes for a frustrating
> editing
> session to sort by date and time and have the shots displayed in only
> approximately the right order. :^|

If you haven't touched the cameras's clock, it's not too late. You can
compute the difference between the clocks of the two cameras, and perform a
batch exif time stamp adjustment on one set of the photos with ExifToolGUI.

I ran into that issue as well while organizing photos collected from a trip.
I ended up having to guess how far off their time stamp are, based on the
orders of photos taken, and then do a batch exif time stamp adjustment.
Still, the results maybe a few seconds off.

Next time I'll have everyone take a photo of the same clock (with a seconds
hand) sometime during the trip.

But you brought up another can of worm. I want to have an album of a trip
taken by me, an album of the same trip taken by a friend, and a combined
"best of" album of the trip that consists of some of my shots and some of
his, without duplicating any photos on the hard drive. Can lightroom or
other cataloging software handle this?

First let me clarify. The thing I call "album" is just a collection of
photos taken at an event. E.g. if I take photos at a birthday party, those
photos would be considered an album. The album may exist as a folder in my
computer, or as a database in a cataloging software, or as photos scattered
all over.

I'm currently not using any cataloging software. I avoid proprietary
software unless necessary. Another reason is I sometimes need to create an
album on someone else's computer, or give an album to someone including both
edited and original files. If I use a proprietary software to manage this
album, the person I give to may not have the software to open the album.

As for the reason to hide the bad shots instead of deleting them --
sometimes what I consider bad shots may still be worth looking at,
especially a long time into the future. And sometimes, I find that a bad
shot contains good areas that can be used to patch bad areas in another
shot. Think of it as a parts bin.

For viewing, I use xnview or faststone. If I'm using other people's PC, then
I use windows explorer thumbnail view.

Several people mentioned using lightroom, so that's what I'll look into.
Thanks for all suggestions.

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:13:18 -0800, "bob" <> wrote:

>First let me clarify. The thing I call "album" is just a collection of
>photos taken at an event. E.g. if I take photos at a birthday party, those
>photos would be considered an album. The album may exist as a folder in my
>computer, or as a database in a cataloging software,

I don't really understand what you mean here. What you describe above
is nothing more than files within a folder.
>
>or as photos scattered all over.

In this case, there is no album until you bring all of those photos
into one folder.

>I'm currently not using any cataloging software. I avoid proprietary
>software unless necessary. Another reason is I sometimes need to create an
>album on someone else's computer, or give an album to someone including both
>edited and original files. If I use a proprietary software to manage this
>album, the person I give to may not have the software to open the album.

That depends on how you provide the album to other people. If you
make an album in a program like JAlbum, you are uploading your images
to JAlbum's host and providing at http:// link to that album. It is
not necessary to have the JAlbum software to view the album. The
images you have uploaded remain on your computer in a file (if you
have put them all in one file) that can be copied to a CD, DVD, or
thumb drive and taken to another computer where they can be
viewed/uploaded.

I've used JAlbum as an example, but "albums" created in other
proprietary programs are the same...you either upload the images to a
web host or you use the program to create a file that is the album.
In any case, the other person does not have to have the program you
have to view the images. All the program does is allow you to add
some bells and whistles (titles, sound, slideshow, frames, etc) to a
group of photos.

>As for the reason to hide the bad shots instead of deleting them --
>sometimes what I consider bad shots may still be worth looking at,
>especially a long time into the future. And sometimes, I find that a bad
>shot contains good areas that can be used to patch bad areas in another
>shot. Think of it as a parts bin.
>
>For viewing, I use xnview or faststone. If I'm using other people's PC, then
>I use windows explorer thumbnail view.
>
>Several people mentioned using lightroom, so that's what I'll look into.
>Thanks for all suggestions.

The advantages of Lightroom are in cataloging and editing of images.
Forgetting the editing module (Develop), Lightroom's cataloging module
(Library) allows you to tag and sort by keyword and make collections.

However, Lightroom is not your depository of images. Lightroom just
links to image files that are on your drive elsewhere. When you go to
burn a disk, to transfer to a thumb drive, or to email, you will
export them from Lightroom but the images being exported will be
images that you have in a folder(s) in a drive that wouldn't require
Lightroom to access.

Based on what you've said, Lightroom is far too expensive at $300 to
help you unless you need extensive keywording or want to learn to edit
in Lightroom. Adobe's Elements 9.0 is less than a third of that, and
the Organizer module will give you tags, collections, and editing
capability.

While I'm not really sure what limitation you feel you are currently
working under, but just devising your own folder management system
seems to all that you really need.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:58:39 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>On 2011-01-22 12:53:39 -0800, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> said:
>
>> On 2011-01-22 12:13:18 -0800, "bob" <> said:
>>
>>> First let me clarify. The thing I call "album" is just a collection of
>>> photos taken at an event. E.g. if I take photos at a birthday party,
>>> those photos would be considered an album. The album may exist as a
>>> folder in my computer, or as a database in a cataloging software, or as
>>> photos scattered all over.
>>>
>>> I'm currently not using any cataloging software. I avoid proprietary
>>> software unless necessary. Another reason is I sometimes need to create
>>> an album on someone else's computer, or give an album to someone
>>> including both edited and original files. If I use a proprietary
>>> software to manage this album, the person I give to may not have the
>>> software to open the album.
>>>
>>> As for the reason to hide the bad shots instead of deleting them --
>>> sometimes what I consider bad shots may still be worth looking at,
>>> especially a long time into the future. And sometimes, I find that a
>>> bad shot contains good areas that can be used to patch bad areas in
>>> another shot. Think of it as a parts bin.
>>>
>>> For viewing, I use xnview or faststone. If I'm using other people's PC,
>>> then I use windows explorer thumbnail view.
>>>
>>> Several people mentioned using lightroom, so that's what I'll look
>>> into. Thanks for all suggestions.
>>
>> One of the beauties of Lightroom is, you can create your own web
>> galleries for sharing, either by maintaining the gallery on server
>> space you might have access to, or just by sending them the gallery
>> package.
>>
>> For example this is one of my Lightroom web galleries, stored on my
>> mac.com server space. You might have available server space you are
>> already paying your ISP for.
>>
>> < http://homepage.mac.com/lco/Sites/WF...05w/index.html >
>
Well, yeah, but he can create a multi-image slideshow with FastStone
(he says he uses that) and upload that his provider's server space.
No cost to him. If he doesn't have server space, he can use JAlbum
(free) and put up a web gallery. There are other free online gallery
options.

I use my SmugMug account (I pay $40 a year for the account) for this
even though my provider gives me some space. Here's one gallery:

http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...14787279_GXQ63

or

http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/photos...AlbumKey=GXQ63

for the same images in a full-screen slideshow.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida