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Grey market ruled against

 
 
Rich
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      12-15-2010
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=37180618

Poor B&H. Half their sales are threatened.
 
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Eric Stevens
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      12-15-2010
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:02:13 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>On 2010-12-14 21:03:07 -0800, Rich <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=37180618
>>
>> Poor B&H. Half their sales are threatened.

>
>That seems like a pretty vague ruling.
>My Omega Seamaster 300M GMT, bought from a certified Omega retailer in
>San Jose, has no markings on the rear case, stating imported directly
>into the USA from Switzerland, or as a grey market item via Paraguay.
>The same applies to my TAG Heuer.
>My Seiko is a little more mysterious as it seems to have originated in
>the "Land of The Rising Sun" and sold at Sears in 1986. Still works
>though.
>
>I guess the real problem comes when seeking service or warranty repair.
>That is why B&H carries its own warranty on grey market lenses they
>sell & they advise as such. B&H does not try to pass off grey market
>items as US distributer products and advises the customer of such up
>from. That might not be the case with some jewelers selling grey market
>genuine watches. Fakes are another issue altogether.


Years ago my ex-son-in-law bought a fake Rolex in Singapore. "That's
alright though because its got good quality Seiko works" - until he
discovered the Seiko works were a fake also.
>
>That said I have yet to buy one of B&H's grey market offerings.




Eric Stevens
 
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Bruce
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      12-15-2010
Bowser <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 21:03:07 -0800 (PST), Rich <(E-Mail Removed)>
>wrote:
>
>>http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=37180618
>>
>>Poor B&H. Half their sales are threatened.

>
>Nah. The price advantage of grey market items is pretty small, if it
>exists at all these days.



Indeed - when I last looked at the prices of Nikon lenses at B&H, I
was surprised to see 'savings' as low as $30 to $50. There was a time
when price differences were much larger.

 
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shiva das
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      12-15-2010
In article
<(E-Mail Removed)>,
Rich <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=37180618
>
> Poor B&H. Half their sales are threatened.


I didn't realize that B&H sold watches.

The Swiss watch industry has been vigorous in their desire to control
the entire vertical market for decades. In other countries it is easier
to prohibit unauthorized dealers from selling their watches, or anyone
selling at prices below the prices fixed by the manufacturer.

In the US this kind of monopolism is illegal, so they have relied on
copyright laws -- they copyright the design of their dials, cases,
bracelets, etc. and prosecute unauthorized dealers for infringement.

Leica is the only camera company I know which has successfully done the
same thing in the camera world. Leica prices are set in Solms, Germany.
If you are an authorized Leica dealer and you sell for less than list
price, you lose your authorized dealership.

Of course Leica is a tiny manufacturer compared to the Japanese
companies. If Nikon or Canon were to try to resort to these tactics they
would lose money on every camera they sell. Imagine how much it would
cost Canon to track down unauthorized dealers, or dealers who discount
their prices. You can buy a Canon or Nikon from the corner grocery store
and the manufacturers will be happy to have the sale.
 
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henryp
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-15-2010
On Dec 15, 12:03*am, Rich <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=37180618
>
> Poor B&H. Half their sales are threatened.


Thanks for your concern. Actually I'd say 1% of our sales might be
"threatened." Most of the "grey market" merchandise we now carry is
limited to a couple of film types, some lenses and on-camera
speedlights. There aren't any more "grey market" film slrs and we've
never offered "grey market" digital cameras.

--
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video
 
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otter
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      12-16-2010
On Dec 15, 2:54*pm, henryp <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Dec 15, 12:03*am, Rich <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=37180618

>
> > Poor B&H. Half their sales are threatened.

>
> Thanks for your concern. Actually I'd say 1% of our sales might be
> "threatened." Most of the "grey market" merchandise we now carry is
> limited to a couple of film types, some lenses and on-camera
> speedlights. There aren't any more "grey market" film slrs and we've
> never offered "grey market" digital cameras.
>
> --
> Henry Posner
> B&H Photo-Video


Henry, has B&H authorized you to speak for them in an official
manner? If not, you may want to check your company policy. People
have gotten in trouble for posts like this when they don't have
authorization. Don't want that to happen to you, if you were unaware
of your company's policy. I know I am not authorized to speak for my
employer. I generally try not to mention them at all online.

On the other hand, if you ARE an authorized representative of B&H,
then welcome. You might want to include your title in your sig.

 
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SMS
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-16-2010
On 12/15/2010 12:54 PM, henryp wrote:
> On Dec 15, 12:03 am, Rich<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=37180618
>>
>> Poor B&H. Half their sales are threatened.

>
> Thanks for your concern. Actually I'd say 1% of our sales might be
> "threatened." Most of the "grey market" merchandise we now carry is
> limited to a couple of film types, some lenses and on-camera
> speedlights. There aren't any more "grey market" film slrs and we've
> never offered "grey market" digital cameras.
>
> --
> Henry Posner
> B&H Photo-Video


It wasn't always just price that was an advantage of grey market. I
bought an EOS5-QD from B&H many years ago because the A2E lacked some
features that were present on the EOS5-QD, such as the date back and the
auto-pop-up flash.

Also, a lot of grey market merchandise is sold in the U.S. with the full
knowledge of the manufacturer with a wink-wink.
 
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shiva das
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-16-2010
In article
<(E-Mail Removed)>,
otter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Dec 15, 2:54*pm, henryp <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > On Dec 15, 12:03*am, Rich <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> > >http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=37180618

> >
> > > Poor B&H. Half their sales are threatened.

> >
> > Thanks for your concern. Actually I'd say 1% of our sales might be
> > "threatened." Most of the "grey market" merchandise we now carry is
> > limited to a couple of film types, some lenses and on-camera
> > speedlights. There aren't any more "grey market" film slrs and we've
> > never offered "grey market" digital cameras.
> >
> > --
> > Henry Posner
> > B&H Photo-Video

>
> Henry, has B&H authorized you to speak for them in an official
> manner? If not, you may want to check your company policy. People
> have gotten in trouble for posts like this when they don't have
> authorization. Don't want that to happen to you, if you were unaware
> of your company's policy. I know I am not authorized to speak for my
> employer. I generally try not to mention them at all online.
>
> On the other hand, if you ARE an authorized representative of B&H,
> then welcome. You might want to include your title in your sig.


Henry is a good guy with a difficult job.

Henry Posner
Dir of Corp Communications at B&H Photo-Video
Greater New York City Area | Retail

Current: Director of Corporate Communications at B&H Photo Video
Pro-Audio

Past: Board of Directors at Hudson View Owners' Corporation,
Director of Photography at Lifetouch/Prestige Portraits

Education: Washington University in St. Louis, New Rochelle High School

Summary: As Director of Corporate Communications, two of my primary
functions are managing our company's reputation online and acting as an
ombudsman for our customers. In the former capacity I frequent numerous
forums, blogs, social network sites and newsgroups. As each situation
warrants I am able to contribute as a B&H manager, a knowledgeable
photographer with decades of professional experience, or as someone who
enjoys considerable contacts in our industry. In the latter capacity I
seek to assist customers who may need intervention over and above our
normal channels. I attempt to cut red tape to resolve an individual
customer's problem and I seek to understand the root cause of that
problem and take steps to see it is not repeated.

<http://www.linkedin.com/in/hposner>
 
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Tim80
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-16-2010
"Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
news:2010121422021399505-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>
>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=37180618
>>
>> Poor B&H. Half their sales are threatened.

>
> That seems like a pretty vague ruling.
> My Omega Seamaster 300M GMT, bought from a certified Omega retailer in San
> Jose, has no markings on the rear case, stating imported directly into the
> USA from Switzerland, or as a grey market item via Paraguay.
> The same applies to my TAG Heuer.
> My Seiko is a little more mysterious as it seems to have originated in the
> "Land of The Rising Sun" and sold at Sears in 1986. Still works though.
>
> I guess the real problem comes when seeking service or warranty repair.
> That is why B&H carries its own warranty on grey market lenses they sell &
> they advise as such. B&H does not try to pass off grey market items as US
> distributer products and advises the customer of such up from. That might
> not be the case with some jewelers selling grey market genuine watches.
> Fakes are another issue altogether.
>
> That said I have yet to buy one of B&H's grey market offerings.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Savageduck



Yeah, it is a pretty vague ruling, but it's nothing new. Levi's won a
similar case about 10 years ago against a major European company for doing
the same

Basically, it's all political *******s. For example, the EU fined Microsoft
for anti-trust for supplying Internet Explorer free with it's operating
system and won. So, does that mean that Garmin, Navman, etc can now file an
anti-trust suit against automotive manufacturers for equipping their
vehicles with free GPS navigation?




 
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Tim80
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-16-2010
"Tim80" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:iecvrj$rq8$(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
> news:2010121422021399505-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>>
>>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=37180618
>>>
>>> Poor B&H. Half their sales are threatened.

>>
>> That seems like a pretty vague ruling.
>> My Omega Seamaster 300M GMT, bought from a certified Omega retailer in
>> San Jose, has no markings on the rear case, stating imported directly
>> into the USA from Switzerland, or as a grey market item via Paraguay.
>> The same applies to my TAG Heuer.
>> My Seiko is a little more mysterious as it seems to have originated in
>> the "Land of The Rising Sun" and sold at Sears in 1986. Still works
>> though.
>>
>> I guess the real problem comes when seeking service or warranty repair.
>> That is why B&H carries its own warranty on grey market lenses they sell
>> & they advise as such. B&H does not try to pass off grey market items as
>> US distributer products and advises the customer of such up from. That
>> might not be the case with some jewelers selling grey market genuine
>> watches. Fakes are another issue altogether.
>>
>> That said I have yet to buy one of B&H's grey market offerings.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Savageduck

>
>
> Yeah, it is a pretty vague ruling, but it's nothing new. Levi's won a
> similar case about 10 years ago against a major European company for doing
> the same



Just to add, it was trademark violation, not copyright.


 
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