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Re: Isn't java.lang.Character.html#{ isLetterFromLang(int codePoint,String ISOLangDef) missing from the spec?

 
 
Lew
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      12-05-2010
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) quoted Joshua Cranmer, who wrote:
>> ... --you can represent '?' as both the "Latin small e with accent grave" and as "Latin small e" followed by a "modifying accent grave".


You need a newsreader that understands Unicode, lbrtchx.

And to attribute your citations. Whom were you quoting?

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Those cases are easy ones. They could be cannonically changed to "Latin small e with accent grave"


Joshua Cranmer wrote:
>> For the most part, é does not exist in English


(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> No it doesn't I would say at all


Wrong, if by '?' you mean 'é'. It exists all over English.

Joshua Cranmer wrote:
>> ... but, e.g., résumé is the proper spelling.


(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> I am not a native English speaker,


Clearly.

> but I can tell you that anyone writing "r?sum?" is trying
> to sound impressive/knowledgable and knows that this is a french [sic] word.


I do speak English natively, and that is not correct. Historically, "résumé"
was the only correct spelling for that meaning - in English! - but the
language has drifted toward typographic simplicity. The diaresis has suffered
a similar fate; it used to be /de rigueur/ for adjacent vowels to coöperate
from different syllables.

--
Lew
 
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Lew
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      12-05-2010
Lew wrote:
> I do speak English natively, and that is not correct. Historically,
> "résumé" was the only correct spelling for that meaning - in English! -
> but the language has drifted toward typographic simplicity.
> The diaresis [sic]


dieresis or diæresis, sorry.

> has suffered a similar fate; it used to be /de rigueur/ for adjacent
> vowels to coöperate from different syllables.


--
Lew
 
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Joshua Cranmer
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      12-05-2010
On 12/05/2010 02:28 PM, Lew wrote:
> I do speak English natively, and that is not correct. Historically,
> "résumé" was the only correct spelling for that meaning - in English! -
> but the language has drifted toward typographic simplicity. The diaresis
> has suffered a similar fate; it used to be /de rigueur/ for adjacent
> vowels to coöperate from different syllables.


I can think of a few other words: façade, café, naïve, and a handful of
other French loanwords. There is also the `æ ligurature', which is all
but dead (archæology, dæmon, mediæval-- en-US also took a chopping block
to those `ae' ligatures, giving us archeology instead of archaeology,
medieval instead of mediaeval, etc.).

However, modern English also has a tendency to drop accents, just as it
tends to drop hyphens (to-day -> today, e-mail -> email, etc.).

--
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
 
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Tom Anderson
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      12-06-2010
On Sun, 5 Dec 2010, Lew wrote:

> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>> I am not a native English speaker,

>
> Clearly.
>
>> but I can tell you that anyone writing "r?sum?" is trying
>> to sound impressive/knowledgable and knows that this is a french [sic]
>> word.

>
> I do speak English natively, and that is not correct. Historically,
> "r?sum?" was the only correct spelling for that meaning - in English! -
> but the language has drifted toward typographic simplicity.


No. Without the acutes, that word is 'resume', and it means 'take up
again', not 'curriculum vitae'. If someone sent me a CV which called
itself a resume, it'd go straight in the bin, as we do not hire
illiterates.

> The diaresis has suffered a similar fate; it used to be /de rigueur/ for
> adjacent vowels to co?perate from different syllables.


I'm not sure anyone except the New Yorker ever actually did this.

tom

--
non, scarecrow, forensics, rituals, bacteria, scientific instruments, ..
 
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Tom Anderson
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      12-06-2010
On Sun, 5 Dec 2010, Joshua Cranmer wrote:

> On 12/05/2010 02:28 PM, Lew wrote:
>> I do speak English natively, and that is not correct. Historically,
>> "r?sum?" was the only correct spelling for that meaning - in English! -
>> but the language has drifted toward typographic simplicity. The diaresis
>> has suffered a similar fate; it used to be /de rigueur/ for adjacent
>> vowels to co?perate from different syllables.

>
> I can think of a few other words: fa?ade, caf?, na?ve, and a handful of
> other French loanwords.


You see, i'd reject 'cafe' as incorrect. If you're going to Anglicise it,
it's 'caff' - or perhaps that's just Eastenderising it. But if you're
keeping the e, you have to keep the accent, because it affects the way the
word is pronounced. The same is true of your other examples, but their
dediacritical forms have come into common use, so i'm sort of immunised
against them.

> There is also the `? ligurature', which is all but dead (arch?ology,
> d?mon, medi?val-- en-US also took a chopping block to those `ae'
> ligatures, giving us archeology instead of archaeology, medieval instead
> of mediaeval, etc.).


Does ligation affect pronunciation? I don't think so, BICBW. That means
the decay of the ligature to two separate letters is a change in writing
but not spelling, if you see what mean. The loss of the a is a change in
spelling, but it's very much in the vein of other Webster-inspired
differences that have arisen between British and Amaerican English.

> However, modern English also has a tendency to drop accents, just as it tends
> to drop hyphens (to-day -> today, e-mail -> email, etc.).


Isn't this also a change that doesn't change the implied phonetic value?

I appreciate that talking about the implied phonetic value of English
words is a somewhat Quixotic activity.

tom

--
non, scarecrow, forensics, rituals, bacteria, scientific instruments, ..
 
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Joshua Cranmer
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      12-06-2010
On 12/06/2010 07:58 AM, Tom Anderson wrote:
> I appreciate that talking about the implied phonetic value of English
> words is a somewhat Quixotic activity.


"Worcester" is pronounced "Woos-ter". I don't think changing an `e' to
sometimes being pronounced and sometimes not is that big a change in
orthographic terms. Granted, I am a stickler for the accents, which
probably relates to my tendency to also prefer hyphenation.

--
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
 
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Lew
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      12-06-2010
Joshua Cranmer wrote:
> On 12/06/2010 07:58 AM, Tom Anderson wrote:
>
> > I appreciate that talking about the implied phonetic value of English
> > words is a somewhat Quixotic activity.

>
> "Worcester" is pronounced "Woos-ter". I don't think changing an `e' to
>


Or "wurster" in rhotic accents.

> sometimes being pronounced and sometimes not is that big a change in
> orthographic terms. Granted, I am a stickler for the accents, which
> probably relates to my tendency to also prefer hyphenation.
>


--
Lew
 
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Arne Vajhj
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      12-08-2010
On 06-12-2010 07:41, Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Dec 2010, Lew wrote:
>> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>> but I can tell you that anyone writing "r?sum?" is trying
>>> to sound impressive/knowledgable and knows that this is a french
>>> [sic] word.

>>
>> I do speak English natively, and that is not correct. Historically,
>> "r?sum?" was the only correct spelling for that meaning - in English!
>> - but the language has drifted toward typographic simplicity.

>
> No. Without the acutes, that word is 'resume', and it means 'take up
> again', not 'curriculum vitae'. If someone sent me a CV which called
> itself a resume, it'd go straight in the bin, as we do not hire
> illiterates.


Given that Oxford Dictionaries consider it a valid
usage of resume, then ...

Arne
 
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Mike Schilling
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      12-08-2010


"Arne Vajhj" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:4cfee44c$0$23759$(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 06-12-2010 07:41, Tom Anderson wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2010, Lew wrote:
>>> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>>> but I can tell you that anyone writing "r?sum?" is trying
>>>> to sound impressive/knowledgable and knows that this is a french
>>>> [sic] word.
>>>
>>> I do speak English natively, and that is not correct. Historically,
>>> "r?sum?" was the only correct spelling for that meaning - in English!
>>> - but the language has drifted toward typographic simplicity.

>>
>> No. Without the acutes, that word is 'resume', and it means 'take up
>> again', not 'curriculum vitae'. If someone sent me a CV which called
>> itself a resume, it'd go straight in the bin, as we do not hire
>> illiterates.

>
> Given that Oxford Dictionaries consider it a valid
> usage of resume, then ...


Where are you, Tom? In the US, anyone who put the accents in re'sume' would
look foolishly pedantic.

 
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Eric Sosman
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      12-08-2010
On 12/7/2010 11:31 PM, Mike Schilling wrote:
>
> Where are you, Tom? In the US, anyone who put the accents in re'sume'
> would look foolishly pedantic.


In the US, the language is bastardizd beyond beyond the reach
of outraged critiquificationizing.

--
Eric Sosman
(E-Mail Removed)lid
 
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