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"Richard" <rgrdev_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:id3ll8$c7a$...
>
> Despite the luminaries here telling us that debuggers are useless and
> that its twice as hard to debug a program as is it is write code
> properly the first time, I thought some of you might enjoy this
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0229726822034#
>
> This Stanford lecturer agrees with me : debuggers help you track state
> and force test conditions in a controlled manner. Obviously he's not as
> smart as the people here who claim they prefer to read a print out .....

Debuggers are not really my thing (I see debugging as more of a sport), but
just two minutes of that guy with the funny hat has put me off for life.

--
bartc

On Dec 1, 4:43*pm, Richard <rgrd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "BartC" <b...@freeuk.com> writes:
>
> > Debuggers are not really my thing (I see debugging as more of a sport), but
> > just two minutes of that guy with the funny hat has put me off for
> > life.
>
> So you're not a programmer? You dont maintain code? That or you dont
> know what a debugger is and what it can do.
>
I don't use debuggers either. I find I can always track down bugs with
diagnostic printfs.

The reason I don't use a debuggers is that I'm constantly switching
between systems. The debugger becomes a very intimate part of the way
you work, and then when suddenly deprived of it it's bit like
switching from a car with a steering wheel and gearbox to one with a
tiller and a double declutch - effectively you've got to relearn to
drive.

"Malcolm McLean" <> wrote in message
news:fab1ee36-d6d5-4bf7-a668-...
> On Dec 1, 4:43 pm, Richard <rgrd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "BartC" <b...@freeuk.com> writes:
>>
>> > Debuggers are not really my thing (I see debugging as more of a sport),
>> > but
>> > just two minutes of that guy with the funny hat has put me off for
>> > life.
>>
>> So you're not a programmer? You dont maintain code? That or you dont
>> know what a debugger is and what it can do.
>>
> I don't use debuggers either. I find I can always track down bugs with
> diagnostic printfs.
>
> The reason I don't use a debuggers is that I'm constantly switching
> between systems. The debugger becomes a very intimate part of the way
> you work, and then when suddenly deprived of it it's bit like
> switching from a car with a steering wheel and gearbox to one with a
> tiller and a double declutch - effectively you've got to relearn to
> drive.

I knew someone who had a plane, a couple of boats, and several cars, with a
combination of LHD/RHD, manual and automatic, and had one home where they
drove on the left, and another where they drove on the right.

He never had the slightest trouble adapting.

--
Bartc

On 2010-12-12, BartC <> wrote:
> I knew someone who had a plane, a couple of boats, and several cars, with a
> combination of LHD/RHD, manual and automatic, and had one home where they
> drove on the left, and another where they drove on the right.
>
> He never had the slightest trouble adapting.

Did he use a debugger?

In message <fab1ee36-d6d5-4bf7-a668-
s.com>, Malcolm McLean <> writes
>On Dec 1, 4:43*pm, Richard <rgrd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "BartC" <b...@freeuk.com> writes:
>>
>> > Debuggers are not really my thing (I see debugging as more of a sport), but
>> > just two minutes of that guy with the funny hat has put me off for
>> > life.
>>
>> So you're not a programmer? You dont maintain code? That or you dont
>> know what a debugger is and what it can do.
>>
>I don't use debuggers either. I find I can always track down bugs with
>diagnostic printfs.

There speaks an amateur

>The reason I don't use a debuggers is that I'm constantly switching
>between systems.

So?

>The debugger becomes a very intimate part of the way
>you work, and then when suddenly deprived of it it's bit like
>switching from a car with a steering wheel and gearbox to one with a
>tiller and a double declutch - effectively you've got to relearn to
>drive.

Yes.
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

"Ike Naar" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On 2010-12-12, BartC <> wrote:
>> I knew someone who had a plane, a couple of boats, and several cars, with
>> a
>> combination of LHD/RHD, manual and automatic, and had one home where they
>> drove on the left, and another where they drove on the right.
>>
>> He never had the slightest trouble adapting.
>
> Did he use a debugger?

No.

On Dec 12, 12:34*pm, Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mcle...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> On Dec 1, 4:43*pm, Richard <rgrd...@gmail.com> wrote:> "BartC" <b...@freeuk.com> writes:
>
> > > Debuggers are not really my thing (I see debugging as more of a sport), but
> > > just two minutes of that guy with the funny hat has put me off for
> > > life.
>
> > So you're not a programmer? You dont maintain code? That or you dont
> > know what a debugger is and what it can do.
>
> I don't use debuggers either. I find I can always track down bugs with
> diagnostic printfs.
>
> The reason I don't use a debuggers is that I'm constantly switching
> between systems. The debugger becomes a very intimate part of the way
> you work, and then when suddenly deprived of it it's bit like
> switching from a car with a steering wheel and gearbox to one with a
> tiller and a double declutch - effectively you've got to relearn to
> drive.

I've switched between gdb (both gui and cli) and ms studio without
much difficulty.

Couldn't we all just agree that debuggers are sometimes the
best debugging tool, sometimes inappropriate, and the boundary
between the two cases varies due to various factors, including a
particular programmer's skill set?

I seldom use debuggers, but definitely set a lot of breakpoints
with them when I was understanding and busting copy-protect
schemes for money^H^H^H^H^H as an avocation.

On Dec 12, 8:05*pm, "BartC" <b...@freeuk.com> wrote:
> I knew someone who ... had one home where they
> drove on the left, and another where they drove on the right.

My big problem driving in London for the first time was
that I always hold my cigarette in right hand, but ashtray
was on the left.

I quit smoking.

James Dow Allen

On Dec 12, 1:26*pm, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
> In message <fab1ee36-d6d5-4bf7-a668-816e34e3e...@j29g2000yqm.googlegroup
> s.com>, Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mcle...@btinternet.com> writes
>
> >On Dec 1, 4:43 pm, Richard <rgrd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> "BartC" <b...@freeuk.com> writes:
>
> >> > Debuggers are not really my thing (I see debugging as more of a sport), but
> >> > just two minutes of that guy with the funny hat has put me off for
> >> > life.
>
> >> So you're not a programmer? You dont maintain code? That or you dont
> >> know what a debugger is and what it can do.
>
> >I don't use debuggers either. I find I can always track down bugs with
> >diagnostic printfs.
>
> There speaks an amateur

struct Whatsit
{
int k;
};

struct SubT
{
Whatsit w;
};

struct Thing
{
SubT p1;
SubT p2;
};

....

Thing t[100];
t[0] = initial;

for (i = 1; i < 100; i++)
{
t[i] = f (t[i - 1]);
}

I believe something is going wrong and I'd like to see all the k
values. This seems to mean a certain amount buggering about in the
debugger. Whilst a one line printf() seems easy...

> >The reason I don't use a debuggers is that I'm constantly switching
> >between systems.
>
> So?
>
> >The debugger becomes a very intimate part of the way
> >you work, and then when suddenly deprived of it it's bit like
> >switching from a car with a steering wheel and gearbox to one with a
> >tiller and a double declutch - effectively you've got to relearn to
> >drive.
>
> Yes.

On Dec 12, 3:26*pm, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
> In message <fab1ee36-d6d5-4bf7-a668-816e34e3e...@j29g2000yqm.googlegroup
>
> >I don't use debuggers either. I find I can always track down bugs with
> >diagnostic printfs.
>
> There speaks an amateur
>
No, a professional programmer who has often worked on systems where no
debugger is available.

I've never had a case of a known bug which couldn't be tracked down by
diagnostic alterations to the source code, but which was solved by use
of a debugger. I've had the reverse.