«

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:56:26 -0600, DUH-ane wrote:

> SNIP

You fat, leprous, nineteen-toed (or is it eighteen yet?) ****, DUH-ane.
Take your ****ing meds, for ****'s sake.



--
"En un lugar de la Mancha, de cuyo nombre no quiero acordarme,
no hace mucho tiempo que vivÃ*a un hidalgo de los de lanza en
astillero, adarga antigua, rocÃ*n flaco y galgo corredor."
-Cervantes, 'Don Quixote'

Bert Hyman wrote (using inline comments):

> Scraggy wrote (whose reply had to be quoted since he didn't bother):
>
>> Gordon wrote ...
>>
>>> Just installed windows 7, never used a newsgroup program but it
>>> seems I have to with windows 7 as there is no outlook express with
>>> this OS, ...
>>
>> Windows Live Mail will do it, this reply is done using it. Not
>> perfect but it meets your #1 criteria!
>
> Well, it doesn't indicate what part of your followup was from the
> original post, and what part you wrote - that's a major shortcoming.
>
>> -- I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as
>> members. Groucho Marx
>
> It also doesn't separate your signature from your post - another major
> problem.
>
> Even the original Outlook Express did better than that.

Version 15 of WLM got ****ed up. Indentation (quoting) in plain-text
replies of the quoted content is missing. It might not come back. So
WLM is *not* recommended in Usenet where plain-text posts are
recommended. The defect is also exhibited in e-mail when replying as
plain-text. Microsoft chose to violate RFC 3676 which goes back to 2646
which was ratified back in 1999. Use a different newsreader client than
WLM, and even reconsider if you want to use it for e-mail since few
e-mails actually require HTML (i.e., plain text is sufficient for the
vast majority of e-mails).

While Microsoft removed quoting of cited content in plain text replies
in version 15 of WLM, quoting didn't work properly in ANY of Microsoft's
e-mail & newsreader programs hence the often jerky quoted content (aka
the jaggies). Rare few users are motivated enough to correct the
incorrect quoting. They don't even do trimming of the quoted content in
their replies.

If you use WLM, *you* will have to do the proper quoting (i.e.,
indentation using a prefix character). For example, Scraggy's reply was
at the same level as the OP's (i.e., it was flat and cannot be
differentiated).

Since the OP mentioned being new to using a newsreader, suggesting a
defective one does the OP disservice. Don't get the OP used to using a
crappy newsreader where he has to do manual quoting himself. There has
been no indication that Microsoft will return the proper quoting
function for plain-text replies so WLM is likely to remain defective
from now on. This means WLM can no longer be recommended as either an
e-mail or newsreader client.

In article <XGUGo.21189$2>, Gordon
<> wrote:

> Hi
> Just installed windows 7, never used a newsgroup program but it seems I have
> to with windows 7 as there is no outlook express with this OS, so any advice
> on a good simple program free is poss but I will pay if need be, free always
> sounds nicer to me, but I understand you only get what you pay for.
> Read a few reviews on Google but I would rather hear from people who use
> them and there must be a few in this group, I would rather not use Google
> groups if poss.
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> Gordon
>


Here are some ideas and programs:

http://home.comcast.net/~kilowattradio/usenet.html

--
Best Regards,

Keith
http://home.comcast.net/~kilowattradio/

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 20:02:25 -0600, DUH-ane the fantasist wrote:

> Are you past 100

Yes, DUH-ane. It's 245 here.



--
"En un lugar de la Mancha, de cuyo nombre no quiero acordarme,
no hace mucho tiempo que vivÃ*a un hidalgo de los de lanza en
astillero, adarga antigua, rocÃ*n flaco y galgo corredor."
-Cervantes, 'Don Quixote'

>Version 15 of WLM got ****ed up. Indentation (quoting) in plain-text
>replies of the quoted content is missing. It might not come back. So
>WLM is *not* recommended in Usenet where plain-text posts are
>recommended. The defect is also exhibited in e-mail when replying as
>plain-text.

I don't use WLM 2011 for newsgroups but no quoting defects appear in
my plain text email replies.

Gordon wrote:

> Just installed windows 7, never used a newsgroup program but it seems I have
> to with windows 7 as there is no outlook express with this OS, so any advice
> on a good simple program free is poss but I will pay if need be, free always
> sounds nicer to me, but I understand you only get what you pay for.
> Read a few reviews on Google but I would rather hear from people who use
> them and there must be a few in this group, I would rather not use Google
> groups if poss.

When it was supported, Outlook Express (OE) came bundled with Internet
Explorer (IE). OE has long been unsupported program (which does not
equate to unusable). You cannot get OE separately from IE. They came
bundled together. As of IE7 and later, OE is no longer bundled with IE.
IE6 was the last version that bundled OE with it. Microsoft isn't going
to bundle unsupported products with supported products.

Windows XP comes with IE6 as its baseline version hence why OE is
available with that operating system. Vista comes with IE7 and Windows
7 comes with IE8 as their baseline versions of that web browser. You
cannot install earlier versions of IE on those Windows platforms.

You could run VirtualPC, VMWare Server, VirtualBox, or other virtual
machine managers (VMMs) on Vista/7 and then install a pre-Vista version
of Windows in a virtual machine (VM) to have OE running inside that
virtual machine. That requires installing the VMM, installing pre-Vista
Windows in a virtual machine (VM), and then load that VM when you want
to run OE. According to Microsoft's EULAs, you will need another
license of Windows to run it inside a VM. That is a lot of work and
nuisance along with the expense of 2 licenses for Windows (host and
guest) to run a long-dead e-mail client.

Windows 7 doesn't include a bundled e-mail or newsreader client. You'll
have to choose one and install it. For the Professional and Ultimate
editions of Windows 7, a license of Windows XP SP-3 is included called
XP Mode. If you install XP Mode and then Windows VirtualPC (WVPC), you
will have Windows XP available as a guest OS running inside a virtual
machine. Windows XP comes with IE6 so OE6 will be available; see
http://preview.tinyurl.com/Win7xpmode-IE6OE6.

Note: Windows 7's XP Mode had required the CPU to support hardware-
assisted virtualization (http://preview.tinyurl.com/wiki-CPUvm).
Microsoft removed this limitation and now permits software-based
virtualization (http://preview.tinyurl.com/XPmode-noHdweReq). Some
VMMs will run faster using their own software code than the
virtualization extensions added to the CPU (e.g., VirtualBox);
however, VirtualPC 2007 is not so blessed. A guest OS running in a
VM is significantly slower than the host OS. Software-based VMs
are slower than hardware-assisted VMs.

Windows Mail (WM) is the e-mail client included in Windows Vista.
Windows *Live* Mail (WLM) is the Microsoft's free replacement for both
OE and WM which were also free. Windows 7 does not come with an e-mail
and/or newsreader client pre-installed so you will have to install one.

WLM download: http://download.live.com

After installing just WLM, go into Add/Remove Programs and uninstall the
unwanted extra foistware that Microsoft shoves onto your host, like the
SignOn Assistant. While WLM is reminiscent of OE, it has some
functional differences. For help, the WLM newsgroup is at:

microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

NOTE: As of version 15 for WLM, Microsoft blundered by removing
support for quoting of original content in a plain-text reply, as
required by RFC 2646/3676, section 4.5. That is, Microsoft chose to
become non-compliant to an over decade old RFC. Indentation using
the quoting character ">" was available in prior versions of WLM
(and also in OE) for plain-text replies. It is gone as of v15 for
WLM which results in lack of differentiation between new content in
a reply to the content cited from the message to which you are
replying (i.e., it's all flat now). Microsoft has screwed up WLM as
of v15 so it is recommended to use a different (i.e., non-Microsoft)
e-mail & news client solution.

There are plenty of other e-mail and newsreader clients available. Many
e-mail clients are free: Thunderbird (and derivatives; e.g., Sunbird),
Pegasus Mail, Opera & Seamonkey (web/email/news client), Eudora
(crippleware), and PIM programs that include e-mail functions, like
EssentialPIM, and "cloud" desktops with e-mail, like Zimbra Desktop.
Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...e-mail_clients. For
a webmail provider (Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo Mail, your ISP's web
interface), you only need a web browser and no local e-mail client. For
newsreaders, there are many free choices: Forte Agent (don't bother with
the ancient and crippled free version), Xnews, 40tude Dialog, XanaNews,
MesNews, and Gravity. Clients like NewsBin, GrabIt, and Newsrover are
designed for culling attachments from [multiple] posts in binary groups
and are bad choices for conversational newsreaders. Also see
http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Softwa...lients/Usenet/ and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...et_newsreaders. You can
also ask in the alt.software.newsreaders for more help specifically with
newsreaders.

"Gordon" <> wrote:

>Just installed windows 7, never used a newsgroup program but it seems I have
>to with windows 7 as there is no outlook express with this OS, so any advice
>on a good simple program free is poss but I will pay if need be, free always
>sounds nicer to me, but I understand you only get what you pay for.
>Read a few reviews on Google but I would rather hear from people who use
>them and there must be a few in this group, I would rather not use Google
>groups if poss.
>
>Thanks for your help


If you want something powerful and lots of "bells and whistles" use Forte's
"Agent" www.forteinc.com

It has a 30 day free trial, then it's $30 to purchase.

It has a learning curve, but IMHO it's worth the time. Also, the newsgroup
"alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent" is an excellent support forum.

If you want something free, try
http://www.thefreecountry.com/utilit...sreaders.shtml

40tude Dialog (Windows) is pretty good.

Bullshit i installed outlook from Office XP pro on one of my computers with windows 7
home premium on it.

Peter Foldes wrote:

> Several have wondered if there is anyway to use OE (or WinMail in Vista) in Windows
> 7.
>
> This page addresses some of the potential means to do so:
>
> http://www.oehelp.com/OEnWin7.aspx
>
> --
> Peter
> Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
> Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
> http://www.microsoft.com/protect

--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know proper manners

Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs but got fired the first day on the job
for potty mouth,

Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar

Master Juba was a black man imitating a white man imitating a black man

Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions beyond the realm
of understandability

Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday

News Reader for Clients

http://www.forteinc.com/agent/download.php
http://www.kbrowning.com/
http://www.binaryboy.com/
http://www.nijico.com/
http://www.co.jyu.fi/~ap/bnr.html
http://www.acdsystems.com/english/pr...tovac-node.htm
http://www.forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm
http://www.stsi.com/lurker.htm
http://www.microplanet.com/
http://www.newsbin.com/
http://www.trontech.com.au/
http://www.newsparrot.co.uk/
http://www.usenetopia.com/
http://www.daansystems.com/
http://www.newsrover.com/
http://www.asynchrony.com/
http://www.digiportal.com/ov20info.html
http://www.pluckit.com/
http://www.thinksys.com.au/
http://www.newsrobot.com/sbnews/
http://www.tifny.com/
http://www.a2asoft.com/
http://xnews.newsguy.com/

In news: M.L.
<> wrote:

>
>
>>Version 15 of WLM got ****ed up. Indentation (quoting) in plain-text
>>replies of the quoted content is missing. It might not come back. So
>>WLM is *not* recommended in Usenet where plain-text posts are
>>recommended. The defect is also exhibited in e-mail when replying as
>>plain-text.
>
> I don't use WLM 2011 for newsgroups but no quoting defects appear in
> my plain text email replies.

The client you're using now left out the attribution line from your
followup.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN