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Re: Truth about hi-capacity replacement batteries?

 
 
Ron
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      11-21-2010

"Alfred Molon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
> My experience with cheap Chinese batteries has not been good. Capacity
> was half of the capacity of the original battery and the batteries
> developed issues during charging over time.
> --
>

I have had a similar experience with the cheapest Canon BP-511 battery look
a likes. I bought a couple of $6 replacement batteries and they only lasted
a few recharges before refusing to accept a charge. However, I have bought
a number of replacements for $12-$13 that lasted two to three years and many
many recharges. They are a much better value than a genuine Canon battery
at $60 or so.

Ron

 
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Robert Coe
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      12-25-2012
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 08:42:10 -0600, "Ron" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
:
: "Alfred Molon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
: news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
: > My experience with cheap Chinese batteries has not been good. Capacity
: > was half of the capacity of the original battery and the batteries
: > developed issues during charging over time.
: > --
: >
: I have had a similar experience with the cheapest Canon BP-511 battery look
: a likes. I bought a couple of $6 replacement batteries and they only lasted
: a few recharges before refusing to accept a charge. However, I have bought
: a number of replacements for $12-$13 that lasted two to three years and many
: many recharges. They are a much better value than a genuine Canon battery
: at $60 or so.

That reasoning is perfectly valid if your work is exclusively in landscapes,
architecture, etc. But an event photographer or photojournalist can't afford
the risk that a battery he thinks is fully charged will suddenly crap out. I
used to buy knockoff batteries, but eventually concluded that it wasn't worth
the risk.

Canon batteries are indeed expensive. But in the overall context of what I've
spent on photographic equipment, the marginal cost of the three extra Canon
batteries I bought for my two principal cameras is at the level of roundoff
error.

Bob
 
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NotMe
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-27-2012

"Robert Coe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 08:42:10 -0600, "Ron" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> :
> : "Alfred Molon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> : news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
> : > My experience with cheap Chinese batteries has not been good. Capacity
> : > was half of the capacity of the original battery and the batteries
> : > developed issues during charging over time.
> : > --
> : >
> : I have had a similar experience with the cheapest Canon BP-511 battery
> look
> : a likes. I bought a couple of $6 replacement batteries and they only
> lasted
> : a few recharges before refusing to accept a charge. However, I have
> bought
> : a number of replacements for $12-$13 that lasted two to three years and
> many
> : many recharges. They are a much better value than a genuine Canon
> battery
> : at $60 or so.
>
> That reasoning is perfectly valid if your work is exclusively in
> landscapes,
> architecture, etc. But an event photographer or photojournalist can't
> afford
> the risk that a battery he thinks is fully charged will suddenly crap out.
> I
> used to buy knockoff batteries, but eventually concluded that it wasn't
> worth
> the risk.
>
> Canon batteries are indeed expensive. But in the overall context of what
> I've
> spent on photographic equipment, the marginal cost of the three extra
> Canon
> batteries I bought for my two principal cameras is at the level of
> roundoff
> error.


The reality is there are only a few (5 +/-) providers of batteries. ( I was
lead consulting engineer for a major manufacture of consumer electronics
before I retired). Everyone down stream either licensed the process or buys
sub assemblies from one of the big 5.

Most of my clients received batteries in lots and paid for them by the pound
with no one vendor as the only source. Even those that owned battery
manufacturing facilities purchased on the open market.

If you have a mission critical need it is wise to properly test your
batteries on a regular basis regardless of who manufactured them.


 
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Robert Coe
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      12-28-2012
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:33:46 -0600, "NotMe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
:
: "Robert Coe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
: news:(E-Mail Removed)...
: > On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 08:42:10 -0600, "Ron" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: > :
: > : "Alfred Molon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
: > : news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
: > : > My experience with cheap Chinese batteries has not been good. Capacity
: > : > was half of the capacity of the original battery and the batteries
: > : > developed issues during charging over time.
: > : > --
: > : >
: > : I have had a similar experience with the cheapest Canon BP-511 battery
: > look
: > : a likes. I bought a couple of $6 replacement batteries and they only
: > lasted
: > : a few recharges before refusing to accept a charge. However, I have
: > bought
: > : a number of replacements for $12-$13 that lasted two to three years and
: > many
: > : many recharges. They are a much better value than a genuine Canon
: > battery
: > : at $60 or so.
: >
: > That reasoning is perfectly valid if your work is exclusively in
: > landscapes, architecture, etc. But an event photographer or
: > photojournalist can't afford the risk that a battery he thinks is
: > fully charged will suddenly crap out. I used to buy knockoff batteries,
: > but eventually concluded that it wasn't worth the risk.
: >
: > Canon batteries are indeed expensive. But in the overall context of what
: > I've spent on photographic equipment, the marginal cost of the three
: > extra Canon batteries I bought for my two principal cameras is at the
: > level of roundoff error.
:
: The reality is there are only a few (5 +/-) providers of batteries. ( I was
: lead consulting engineer for a major manufacture of consumer electronics
: before I retired). Everyone down stream either licensed the process or buys
: sub assemblies from one of the big 5.
:
: Most of my clients received batteries in lots and paid for them by the pound
: with no one vendor as the only source. Even those that owned battery
: manufacturing facilities purchased on the open market.

I have no reason to question your assertions, but I do wonder what difference
they make. Whether the camera manufacturer made the batteries or not, he has
to stand behind their quality and reliability. If a battery vendor fails to
meet those standards, he risks losing his contract. Even when buying on the
open market, the camera manufacturers knows which battery models from any
given vendor are designed and manufattured to meet their standards.

: If you have a mission critical need it is wise to properly test your
: batteries on a regular basis regardless of who manufactured them.

You charge the batteries up, and your meter says they're OK. (Or the charger
does, since it's a rare meter that would match the pin-outs of a given modern
camera battery.) Then you use them and hope they don't fail. What other
testing methods are available?

Bob
 
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NotMe
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-28-2012

"Robert Coe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:33:46 -0600, "NotMe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> :
> : "Robert Coe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> : news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> : > On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 08:42:10 -0600, "Ron" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> : > :
> : > : "Alfred Molon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> : > : news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
> : > : > My experience with cheap Chinese batteries has not been good.
> Capacity
> : > : > was half of the capacity of the original battery and the batteries
> : > : > developed issues during charging over time.
> : > : > --
> : > : >
> : > : I have had a similar experience with the cheapest Canon BP-511
> battery
> : > look
> : > : a likes. I bought a couple of $6 replacement batteries and they
> only
> : > lasted
> : > : a few recharges before refusing to accept a charge. However, I have
> : > bought
> : > : a number of replacements for $12-$13 that lasted two to three years
> and
> : > many
> : > : many recharges. They are a much better value than a genuine Canon
> : > battery
> : > : at $60 or so.
> : >
> : > That reasoning is perfectly valid if your work is exclusively in
> : > landscapes, architecture, etc. But an event photographer or
> : > photojournalist can't afford the risk that a battery he thinks is
> : > fully charged will suddenly crap out. I used to buy knockoff
> batteries,
> : > but eventually concluded that it wasn't worth the risk.
> : >
> : > Canon batteries are indeed expensive. But in the overall context of
> what
> : > I've spent on photographic equipment, the marginal cost of the three
> : > extra Canon batteries I bought for my two principal cameras is at the
> : > level of roundoff error.
> :
> : The reality is there are only a few (5 +/-) providers of batteries. ( I
> was
> : lead consulting engineer for a major manufacture of consumer electronics
> : before I retired). Everyone down stream either licensed the process or
> buys
> : sub assemblies from one of the big 5.
> :
> : Most of my clients received batteries in lots and paid for them by the
> pound
> : with no one vendor as the only source. Even those that owned battery
> : manufacturing facilities purchased on the open market.
>
> I have no reason to question your assertions, but I do wonder what
> difference
> they make. Whether the camera manufacturer made the batteries or not, he
> has
> to stand behind their quality and reliability. If a battery vendor fails
> to
> meet those standards, he risks losing his contract. Even when buying on
> the
> open market, the camera manufacturers knows which battery models from any
> given vendor are designed and manufattured to meet their standards.
>
> : If you have a mission critical need it is wise to properly test your
> : batteries on a regular basis regardless of who manufactured them.
>
> You charge the batteries up, and your meter says they're OK. (Or the
> charger
> does, since it's a rare meter that would match the pin-outs of a given
> modern
> camera battery.) Then you use them and hope they don't fail. What other
> testing methods are available?


Some are more complicated than others. Most common is a discharge at a
stated rate (typically C/20 which is rated capacity {C} over 20 hours or
some set time limit) to a set point where the battery is considered
discharged. The discharge voltage point varies with each type of battery but
most are 1 v per cell on average.

One that I like especially is to track the internal resistance at a set
discharge rate. In a sense a slightly different and quicker test than the
C/20 as it gives you a battery voltage with a load.

The way I've done it is to find a defective camera on line and disassemble
it to the point where I can solder a resistance load to the internal
contacts.

Most battery manufactures can provide that info. If not you can usually
get the info from generic batteries of similar ratings.

If you post the make, model and type of battery you have I can give you a
good guess.


 
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Wolfgang Weisselberg
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-10-2013
NotMe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> The reality is there are only a few (5 +/-) providers of batteries. ( I was
> lead consulting engineer for a major manufacture of consumer electronics
> before I retired). Everyone down stream either licensed the process or buys
> sub assemblies from one of the big 5.


If they license the process, they probably *are* a battery
provider (unless they pass the license on somehow or forget it
in a drawer). Maybe they don't do the development themselves,
but they are manufacturers --- and can be diligent or shoddy,
buy quality or junk material, keep their manufacturing machines
in order or not, have close or loose tolerances, ...


> Most of my clients received batteries in lots and paid for them by the pound
> with no one vendor as the only source. Even those that owned battery
> manufacturing facilities purchased on the open market.


Manufacturing facilities can provide you with a steady stream
of a very few types and sizes. If you need something else,
it's not exactly a good idea to retool the whole process,
unless you need a steady stream of them *and* the retooling and
the not producing of what you formerly produced on the line(s)
is financially solid. (Building a new line needs even more
financial layout.) And that's assuming you have the necessary
licenses and patents you need to produce what you need.


> If you have a mission critical need it is wise to properly test your
> batteries on a regular basis regardless of who manufactured them.


Well, THAT might be a bit hard if your batteries are beyond LEO.
Monitoring, yes, but testing?


-Wolfgang
 
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