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Combined SatNav-Marine-Ordnance Survey device.

 
 
G. Morgan
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      11-16-2010
"Peter Turtill" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I want a device that will take Admiralty Marine charts, Ordnance Survey and
>Tom Tom that can also be used as a phone. Is such a device made?



There's an app for that.

 
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Peter Turtill
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      11-16-2010

"Whiskers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 2010-11-15, Peter Turtill <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> I want a device that will take Admiralty Marine charts, Ordnance Survey
>> and
>> Tom Tom that can also be used as a phone. Is such a device made?
>>
>> pete

>
> The navigation software in GPS receivers and smartphones doesn't use
> either Admiralty charts or OS maps (or at least, if they do they're in a
> significantly altered form that makes them into 'something else').
>
> I think you want to be able to use your data as 'evidence' in various
> matters relating to public access in particular places. For such purposes
> I think you'd do best with conventional printed maps and charts and basic
> 'technical drawing' equipment (ruler, dividers, pencil, drawing-compass,
> etc). By all means, use GPS to help you to locate and mark 'things' on
> your maps - but don't forget other methods too, such as measuring tape and
> compass-bearings
>
> The gadgets and smartphone software designed to assist navigation by road,
> are not the right sort of tool to use for precise position-fixing; for
> example, they are likely to adjust whatever position information they
> calculate using the GPS satellites so as to display your location on or
> close to 'a road' or 'a path' as known to the mapping data in use. If
> you're trying to locate a thoroughfare that isn't known to the mapping
> data, or isn't mapped to where you believe it should be, I think you'll
> soon run into difficulties.
>
> There are GPS receivers intended for 'off-road' use, or for 'marine' use,
> which will log your position in terms of latitude and longitude, or
> National Grid or whatever, and can store 'tracks' and 'waypoints' in those
> terms too. Ideally you want to have some idea of the 'margin for error'
> in the GPS 'fix' as well - a single stand-alone receiver can be 'off' by
> surprisingly large distances sometimes. That's why 'real' map-makers and
> surveyors make use of identifiable landmarks and arrays of 'static' GPS
> receivers to locate positions relative to those 'datum points'.
>
> There are apps for smartphones that can emulate at least some of the
> functions of an 'off-road' GPS receiver. But they may not be as accurate
> and reliable as purpose-built devices, nor as good at detecting
> satellites.
>
> Some of the navigation apps for smartphones make use of maps which you can
> 'download' onto the device; others, notably Google Maps, require
> continuous internet access - which will usually mean 'mobile internet' of
> course - to access mapping data for the current location. This can be
> both expensive and unreliable.


Thank you Whiskers for your customary very intelligent and understandable
answer. I have a PDA with OS for my patch on it which I can use to track a
route if I travel very slowly. I can then transfer that to my computer and
print it as an OS map. It is good but the battery in my Mio P550 only last
an hour or so and the OS stuff I bought off Memory Map is bliidy expensive.
It also works with a Tom Tom memory card but now it often freezes and of
course it is out of date by years now.

The marine stuff I need when I am sailing. During the summer I take disabled
people sailing in an open keel boat. I plot my course using an Imry chart
and a Breton Plotter and I take bearings with a hand held compass while
sailing. I never go out in poor visibility so really I have everything I
need to be safe and keep my crew safe. However, lately I have seen a few
Skippers using I-Phones usually with a Navionics application but that
doesn't show anywhere near enough detail so I was wondering if there was
anything better around yet? Otherwise I have to buy a new Tom Tom and a more
robust PDA and continue plotting a course before sailing. I would just add
Navionics looks good but it would be extremely dangerous to rely on. Maybe
Garmin have something. I have access to a Garmin SatNav on a RIB and that is
extremely good but of course it is not handheld. It maybe a few more years
as yet to get this I suppose. Thanks Whiskers, I now know a little more
about an I-Phone and I don't think that is for me if I have to pay mobile
rates to download google earth.

pete


 
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Whiskers
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      11-17-2010
On 2010-11-16, Peter Turtill <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> "Whiskers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On 2010-11-15, Peter Turtill <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


[...]

> Thank you Whiskers for your customary very intelligent and understandable
> answer. I have a PDA with OS for my patch on it which I can use to track a
> route if I travel very slowly. I can then transfer that to my computer and
> print it as an OS map. It is good but the battery in my Mio P550 only last
> an hour or so and the OS stuff I bought off Memory Map is bliidy expensive.
> It also works with a Tom Tom memory card but now it often freezes and of
> course it is out of date by years now.


You sound like the sort of person who'd be useful to the Open Street Map
project. Modern smartphones and dedicated GPS receivers can store a track
as quickly as you can drive it in a car; the device that stores the track
doesn't need to have any maps installed on it; the data for the track can
be used with mapping files on a larger computer when convenient..

> The marine stuff I need when I am sailing. During the summer I take disabled
> people sailing in an open keel boat. I plot my course using an Imry chart
> and a Breton Plotter and I take bearings with a hand held compass while
> sailing. I never go out in poor visibility so really I have everything I
> need to be safe and keep my crew safe. However, lately I have seen a few
> Skippers using I-Phones usually with a Navionics application but that
> doesn't show anywhere near enough detail so I was wondering if there was
> anything better around yet?


[...]

I don't know anything about the Navionics charts and software; it sounds
somewhat similar to the user-generated approach taken by Open Street Maps
on land - but with a commercial basis.

I certainly wouldn't want to rely on a smartphone for marine navigation.
They're far too fragile, and have a very short battery life.

The sort of GPS receiver intended for in-car use is unlikely to be
suitable for use at sea.

I suggest a good chandler, or local inshore fishermen, for advice about
current sea-worthy navigation kit suitable for your trips.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
 
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G. Morgan
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      11-18-2010
Whiskers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> it sounds
>somewhat similar to the user-generated approach taken by Open Street Maps
>on land - but with a commercial basis.



I just looked at Open Street Maps and am not impressed. There are flat-out
errors I spotted very quickly looking at an area I know well. I would not trust
Open Street Maps to plan any real trip.

 
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Whiskers
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      11-18-2010
On 2010-11-18, G Morgan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Whiskers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> it sounds
>>somewhat similar to the user-generated approach taken by Open Street Maps
>>on land - but with a commercial basis.

>
>
> I just looked at Open Street Maps and am not impressed. There are
> flat-out errors I spotted very quickly looking at an area I know well. I
> would not trust Open Street Maps to plan any real trip.


All maps contain errors. The unique aspect of OSM is that users can
correct the errors and fill in missing information.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
 
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Peter Turtill
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      11-18-2010

"Whiskers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 2010-11-18, G Morgan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Whiskers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> it sounds
>>>somewhat similar to the user-generated approach taken by Open Street Maps
>>>on land - but with a commercial basis.

>>
>>
>> I just looked at Open Street Maps and am not impressed. There are
>> flat-out errors I spotted very quickly looking at an area I know well. I
>> would not trust Open Street Maps to plan any real trip.

>
> All maps contain errors. The unique aspect of OSM is that users can
> correct the errors and fill in missing information.


I had considered using OSM to map RoW where I live but there is no facility
for designating Footpath, Bridleways, Restricted Byways and Byways Open to
All Traffic.

pete


 
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Whiskers
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      11-18-2010
On 2010-11-18, Peter Turtill <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> "Whiskers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On 2010-11-18, G Morgan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> Whiskers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


[...]

>>> I just looked at Open Street Maps and am not impressed. There are
>>> flat-out errors I spotted very quickly looking at an area I know well. I
>>> would not trust Open Street Maps to plan any real trip.

>>
>> All maps contain errors. The unique aspect of OSM is that users can
>> correct the errors and fill in missing information.

>
> I had considered using OSM to map RoW where I live but there is no facility
> for designating Footpath, Bridleways, Restricted Byways and Byways Open to
> All Traffic.


You didn't look hard enough )

<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features>

OpenStreetMap does not have any content restrictions on tags that can
be assigned to OSM-Elements (Nodes, Ways or Relations). You can use any
tags you like as long as the values are verifiable. However, there is a
benefit in agreeing to a recommended set of features and corresponding
tags in order to create, interpret and display a common basemap. This
page contains a core recommended feature set and corresponding tags.

And there's even more here
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_public_rights_of_way>.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
 
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