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HTML head/meta: how to indicate the URL of a translated version ofthe page

 
 
robert
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      10-17-2010
Hello, is there a standard for how to point to translated versions
of file.

e.g. on a english HTML with
<meta name="language" content="en">

to add something like

<meta/link...
RELATED_UNKOWNATTRIBUTES lang="fr" href='index-fr.html' >

....


?


And which of the following alternatives is best/mandatory ... for
search engines, browsers etc to tell the language of the current page?


<meta http-equiv="content-language" content="fr">
<meta name="language" content="fr">
<meta http-equiv="language" content="fr">



robert
 
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Jukka K. Korpela
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      10-17-2010
robert wrote:

> Hello, is there a standard for how to point to translated versions
> of file.


No. The best way is to include, in a fairly prominent manner, a link like

French version ~ Version française:
<a href="index-fr.html" hreflang="fr" lang="fr">La vie, l&rsquo;univers et
tout ce qui es</a>

> e.g. on a english HTML with
> <meta name="language" content="en">


The standard way - to the extent that there are any standards on HTML - to
indicate the language of the page itself is to use the lang attribute on the
<html> tag, e.g.
<html lang="en">

> to add something like
>
> <meta/link...
> RELATED_UNKOWNATTRIBUTES lang="fr" href='index-fr.html' >


Umm... you _can_ write
<link rel="alternate" hreflang="fr" href='index-fr.html'
and it does no harm, but do you expect browsers or other software to support
it? Few browsers have made any strong attempts in that direction. As such,
the element creates nothing visible to the user.

> And which of the following alternatives is best/mandatory ... for
> search engines, browsers etc to tell the language of the current page?


They probably don't care about any of them, or about the lang attribute
either. One reason to this is that page editing software is known to spit
out such incantations without caring the least about the language actually
used and without informing the author. Search engines can typically figure
out the language from the content itself - typically, a few dozen words
suffice to distinguish between major languages.

Browsers don't normally care about the language at all. To the extent they
do - such as glyph selection for Chinese-Japanese-Korean characters that
should partly take different shapes depending on language - they use the
lang attribute.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

 
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Lewis
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      10-18-2010
In message <zfGuo.6877$(E-Mail Removed)>
Jukka K. Korpela <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> robert wrote:


>> Hello, is there a standard for how to point to translated versions
>> of file.


> No. The best way is to include, in a fairly prominent manner, a link like


> French version ~ Version française:
> <a href="index-fr.html" hreflang="fr" lang="fr">La vie, l&rsquo;univers et
> tout ce qui es</a>


Oh, I think a upper right French flag and English flag with the English
flag selected is enough to indicate there's a French version. And it
scales well if you have several translations.

And besides, no one wants to see French polluting an English page!

--
'The trouble with my friend here is that he doesn't know the difference
between a postulate and a metaphor of human existence. Or a hole in the
ground.' --Pyramids
 
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Dylan Parry
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      10-18-2010
Lewis <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> In message <zfGuo.6877$(E-Mail Removed)>


> Oh, I think a upper right French flag and English flag with the
> English
> flag selected is enough to indicate there's a French version.


Oh dear. I don't think you realise what you've started here

There are a number of reasons why flags are bad, but the main one is
that flags are a symbol of culture not language—which flag do you use
for English? The British
Union flag? The US Stars and Stripes? You'll either confuse one group of
people or offend another…

--
Dylan Parry
 
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Sjeef
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      10-18-2010
"Dylan Parry" <(E-Mail Removed)> schreef in bericht
news:(E-Mail Removed)-september.org
> Lewis <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> In message <zfGuo.6877$(E-Mail Removed)>

>
>> Oh, I think a upper right French flag and English flag with the
>> English
>> flag selected is enough to indicate there's a French version.

>
> Oh dear. I don't think you realise what you've started here
>
> There are a number of reasons why flags are bad, but the main one is
> that flags are a symbol of culture not language-which flag do you use
> for English? The British
> Union flag? The US Stars and Stripes? You'll either confuse one group
> of people or offend another.


A combination solves the problem.
See:
http://www.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=h...1t:429,r:3,s:0

--
Regards,

Gerard Schaefers

Website: http://www.sjeef.eu


 
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Peter
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      10-18-2010
In article <2035175100309075008.273404usenet-
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)
says...
> Lewis <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > In message <zfGuo.6877$(E-Mail Removed)>

>
> > Oh, I think a upper right French flag and English flag with the
> > English
> > flag selected is enough to indicate there's a French version.

>
> Oh dear. I don't think you realise what you've started here
>
> There are a number of reasons why flags are bad, but the main one is
> that flags are a symbol of culture not languageâ¤=3Fwhich flag do you use
> for English? The British
> Union flag? The US Stars and Stripes? You'll either confuse one group of
> people or offend anotherâ¤=3F
>
>


I wouldn't worry about offending people. If they're that easily offended
by a flag image then they've got issues.

--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email
 
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Jonathan N. Little
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-18-2010
Dylan Parry wrote:
> Lewis<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> In message<zfGuo.6877$(E-Mail Removed)>

>
>> Oh, I think a upper right French flag and English flag with the
>> English
>> flag selected is enough to indicate there's a French version.

>
> Oh dear. I don't think you realise what you've started here
>
> There are a number of reasons why flags are bad, but the main one is
> that flags are a symbol of culture not language—which flag do you use
> for English? The British
> Union flag? The US Stars and Stripes? You'll either confuse one group of
> people or offend another…
>


I would think a better method would be textual links with the language
name in that language:

English Français Deutsch ...

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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Jukka K. Korpela
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      10-18-2010
Peter wrote:

> I wouldn't worry about offending people. If they're that easily
> offended by a flag image then they've got issues.


If you are running some sort of business, I'm sure your competitors will be
grateful.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

 
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Jukka K. Korpela
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      10-18-2010
Lewis wrote:

> Oh, I think a upper right French flag and English flag with the
> English flag selected is enough to indicate there's a French version.


You're trolling, right? Especially the expression "English flag" makes it
rather obvious - or are your seriously suggesting the use of the flag of
England, or don't you just know the difference between it and the Union
Flag?

> And besides, no one wants to see French polluting an English page!


If you think that way, you had better stick to using one language only on
your site.

Consider yourself as a visitor, in a similar situation, just with a bit
different languages. Suppose that you don't know Chinese at all and that one
day, perhaps innocently following an interesting-looking link, you stumble
across a web page in all Chinese. Not a single letter, still less a word,
you would recognize. But there's a a tiny little Union Flag somewhere. Now,
would you click on it to get some idea of where you might be? Even if you
would have something else to do? After all, you have now _no_ idea of what
the site might be about. (You might guess something from its images, if any,
but of course at your own risk, and often wrong.) And some day, you will
stumble across a page where the flag is used as a proper symbol, pointing to
a page about the United Kingdom, presumably in Chinese.

Compare this with seeing the text
This page in English: Life, universe, and everything
with the second part as a link. (Imagine something that might really
interest you in place of this dummy link text.)

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

 
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Lewis
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      10-18-2010
In message <(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>
Dylan Parry <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Lewis <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> In message <zfGuo.6877$(E-Mail Removed)>


>> Oh, I think a upper right French flag and English flag with the
>> English
>> flag selected is enough to indicate there's a French version.


> Oh dear. I don't think you realise what you've started here


> There are a number of reasons why flags are bad, but the main one is
> that flags are a symbol of culture not language—which flag do you use
> for English? The British Union flag?


Yes, and I'm an American. I'd use the US flag if there were separate UK
and US English pages, but I can't imagine that.

But, in the interest of inconsistency, I'd use the Mexican flag for
Spanish. This is because the Mexican flag is more distinctive than the
Spanish flag which, especially at small sizes, looks like several
others. The Mexican just looks like the Italian, but with a blob in the
middle, so obviously not Italian. My Spanish friend finds this very
annoying

> The US Stars and Stripes? You'll either confuse one group of people or
> offend another…


When my youngest son was 5 he was confused as to which flag to choose
for English, but only the one time.

--
Rid yourself of doubt -- or should you? -George Carlin
 
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