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As the "S/S Olympus 4/3rds" ship sinks, (Olympus abandoned it), thecrew get more violent!

 
 
peter
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-28-2010
On 9/28/2010 8:18 AM, Brucie the blusterer wrote:
> RichA<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On Sep 28, 5:52 am, Bruce<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> RichA<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>> Nikon and Canon have nothing to compete with the micro 4/3rds or Sony
>>>> NEX cameras.
>>>
>>> Not yet.
>>>
>>> In 2011, they will, and they will revolutionise the micro format. In
>>> particular, Canon's offering will make all other micro systems look
>>> very dull.

>>
>> All they have to do is put a 4/3rds size sensor into a G12 and add a
>> bayonet.

>
>
> If they did that, they would be offering nothing new.
>
> Fortunately, Canon's plans are for something very different.
>


Are you inside Canon people formerly Olympus people?
And tell us oh great prognosticator, does Nikon plan the same thing?

I know you won't answer as you claim you killfiled me. Oh! how
heartbreaking. How convenient, you can't be called on your bluster. You
sound just like Brucie the blusterer from another group.


--
Peter
 
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RichA
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-28-2010
On Sep 28, 8:25*am, peter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On 9/28/2010 8:18 AM, Brucie the blusterer wrote:
>
>
>
> > RichA<(E-Mail Removed)> *wrote:
> >> On Sep 28, 5:52 am, Bruce<(E-Mail Removed)> *wrote:
> >>> RichA<(E-Mail Removed)> *wrote:
> >>>> Nikon and Canon have nothing to compete with the micro 4/3rds or Sony
> >>>> NEX *cameras.

>
> >>> Not yet.

>
> >>> In 2011, they will, and they will revolutionise the micro format. *In
> >>> particular, Canon's offering will make all other micro systems look
> >>> very dull.

>
> >> All they have to do is put a 4/3rds size sensor into a G12 and add a
> >> bayonet.

>
> > If they did that, they would be offering nothing new.

>
> > Fortunately, Canon's plans are for something very different.

>
> Are you inside Canon people formerly Olympus people?
> And tell us oh great prognosticator, does Nikon plan the same thing?
>
> I know you won't answer as you claim you killfiled me. Oh! how
> heartbreaking. How convenient, you can't be called on your bluster. You
> sound just like Brucie the blusterer from another group.
>
> --
> Peter


Well, both Canon and Nikon have something on the drawing board, but I
reiterate my objection to them that they let others build the market,
do the innovating while they sit on the sidelines waiting to introduce
likely better, but purely derivative products.
 
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peter
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-28-2010
On 9/28/2010 6:08 PM, RichA wrote:
> On Sep 28, 8:25 am, peter<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On 9/28/2010 8:18 AM, Brucie the blusterer wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> RichA<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>> On Sep 28, 5:52 am, Bruce<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>> RichA<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>>> Nikon and Canon have nothing to compete with the micro 4/3rds or Sony
>>>>>> NEX cameras.

>>
>>>>> Not yet.

>>
>>>>> In 2011, they will, and they will revolutionise the micro format. In
>>>>> particular, Canon's offering will make all other micro systems look
>>>>> very dull.

>>
>>>> All they have to do is put a 4/3rds size sensor into a G12 and add a
>>>> bayonet.

>>
>>> If they did that, they would be offering nothing new.

>>
>>> Fortunately, Canon's plans are for something very different.

>>
>> Are you inside Canon people formerly Olympus people?
>> And tell us oh great prognosticator, does Nikon plan the same thing?
>>
>> I know you won't answer as you claim you killfiled me. Oh! how
>> heartbreaking. How convenient, you can't be called on your bluster. You
>> sound just like Brucie the blusterer from another group.
>>
>> --
>> Peter

>
> Well, both Canon and Nikon have something on the drawing board, but I
> reiterate my objection to them that they let others build the market,
> do the innovating while they sit on the sidelines waiting to introduce
> likely better, but purely derivative products.


They always have something on the drawing boards. The timing of the
release will be dictated by business motives. Besides, even if you are
correct, it's smart business to let someone else build the market. Saves
a lot of money.


--
Peter
 
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Rich
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      09-29-2010
On Sep 28, 7:27*pm, peter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On 9/28/2010 6:08 PM, RichA wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 28, 8:25 am, peter<(E-Mail Removed)> *wrote:
> >> On 9/28/2010 8:18 AM, Brucie the blusterer wrote:

>
> >>> RichA<(E-Mail Removed)> * *wrote:
> >>>> On Sep 28, 5:52 am, Bruce<(E-Mail Removed)> * *wrote:
> >>>>> RichA<(E-Mail Removed)> * *wrote:
> >>>>>> Nikon and Canon have nothing to compete with the micro 4/3rds or Sony
> >>>>>> NEX *cameras.

>
> >>>>> Not yet.

>
> >>>>> In 2011, they will, and they will revolutionise the micro format. *In
> >>>>> particular, Canon's offering will make all other micro systems look
> >>>>> very dull.

>
> >>>> All they have to do is put a 4/3rds size sensor into a G12 and add a
> >>>> bayonet.

>
> >>> If they did that, they would be offering nothing new.

>
> >>> Fortunately, Canon's plans are for something very different.

>
> >> Are you inside Canon people formerly Olympus people?
> >> And tell us oh great prognosticator, does Nikon plan the same thing?

>
> >> I know you won't answer as you claim you killfiled me. Oh! how
> >> heartbreaking. How convenient, you can't be called on your bluster. You
> >> sound just like Brucie the blusterer from another group.

>
> >> --
> >> Peter

>
> > Well, both Canon and Nikon have something on the drawing board, but I
> > reiterate my objection to them that they let others build the market,
> > do the innovating while they sit on the sidelines waiting to introduce
> > likely better, but purely derivative products.

>
> They always have something on the drawing boards. The timing of the
> release will be dictated by business motives. Besides, even if you are
> correct, it's smart business to let someone else build the market. Saves
> a lot of money.
>
> --
> Peter


Nikon's camera I'm convinced is coming soon. They apparently have the
camera and at least six lenses ready to go. It's going to be
interesting.
 
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Robert Coe
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      10-01-2010
On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:18:25 +0100, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: RichA <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: >On Sep 28, 5:52*am, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: >> RichA <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: >> >Nikon and Canon have nothing to compete with the micro 4/3rds or Sony
: >> >NEX *cameras.
: >>
: >> Not yet. *
: >>
: >> In 2011, they will, and they will revolutionise the micro format. *In
: >> particular, Canon's offering will make all other micro systems look
: >> very dull.
: >
: >All they have to do is put a 4/3rds size sensor into a G12 and add a
: >bayonet.
:
:
: If they did that, they would be offering nothing new.
:
: Fortunately, Canon's plans are for something very different.

One has to assume you're just guessing. Otherwise, you'd be in violation of
your non-disclosure agreement and would probably never receive any advance
information again. You wouldn't take that risk just to show off here.

Bob
 
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Bruce
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-02-2010
Robert Coe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:18:25 +0100, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>: RichA <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>: >On Sep 28, 5:52*am, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>: >> RichA <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>: >> >Nikon and Canon have nothing to compete with the micro 4/3rds or Sony
>: >> >NEX *cameras.
>: >>
>: >> Not yet. *
>: >>
>: >> In 2011, they will, and they will revolutionise the micro format. *In
>: >> particular, Canon's offering will make all other micro systems look
>: >> very dull.
>: >
>: >All they have to do is put a 4/3rds size sensor into a G12 and add a
>: >bayonet.
>:
>:
>: If they did that, they would be offering nothing new.
>:
>: Fortunately, Canon's plans are for something very different.
>
>One has to assume you're just guessing. Otherwise, you'd be in violation of
>your non-disclosure agreement and would probably never receive any advance
>information again. You wouldn't take that risk just to show off here.



Yes, of course I'm guessing, but based on two independent sources. One
was the very detailed rumour that originated in China and has been
very widely publicised. The other is less detailed, but probably a
lot more credible, from a long established UK based Canon dealer who
has recently returned from a visit to Canon in Japan and discussed
future products while he was there.

Both suggested a sensor that is more or less the same size as Four
Thirds, but with a 3:2 aspect ratio. I can't get any more details out
of the Canon dealer, who would obviously be a more reliable source of
information, because *he* has signed an NDA, not me. It is a long
time since I signed one with a manufacturer or importer of camera
equipment. Clients are a different matter.

 
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Robert Coe
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-03-2010
On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 19:45:45 +0100, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: Robert Coe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: >On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:18:25 +0100, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: >: Fortunately, Canon's plans are for something very different.
: >
: >One has to assume you're just guessing. Otherwise, you'd be in violation of
: >your non-disclosure agreement and would probably never receive any advance
: >information again. You wouldn't take that risk just to show off here.
:
:
: Yes, of course I'm guessing, but based on two independent sources. One
: was the very detailed rumour that originated in China and has been
: very widely publicised. The other is less detailed, but probably a
: lot more credible, from a long established UK based Canon dealer who
: has recently returned from a visit to Canon in Japan and discussed
: future products while he was there.
:
: Both suggested a sensor that is more or less the same size as Four
: Thirds, but with a 3:2 aspect ratio. I can't get any more details out
: of the Canon dealer, who would obviously be a more reliable source of
: information, because *he* has signed an NDA, not me. It is a long
: time since I signed one with a manufacturer or importer of camera
: equipment. Clients are a different matter.

So assuming that's all true, let's try to extrapolate a little. The 60D is in
many respects a dumbed down 50D and in other respects a clone of the T2i. No
current 50D owner is going to buy it (we're all eyeing the 7D or 8D anyway),
but it threatens to render the T2i obsolete before the latter even reaches its
first birthday. A plausible inference is that there will never be a T3i.
Indeed, the putative pseudo Four-Thirds ("Three-Halves"?) camera(s) might
constitute a replacement for the whole Rebel product line, and possibly the G
series as well (i.e., no G-13). It could serve as a whole new form of bridge
camera with the potential to encroach upwards or downwards on Canon's other
lines if it sells well and to gracefully shrink out of existence if it
doesn't.

If you're with me this far, I'll throw out a few questions for discussion:

- Will the new cameras accept at least Canon's existing EF-S lenses? If so,
3rd-party vendors like Sigma and Tamron should happily roll with the punch. If
not, or if Canon decides to maintain compatibility but provide the new cameras
with their own, more cost-effective lens series, the 3rd parties could be
royally screwed.

- How will they be regarded by Rich Anderson and Supy the Troll? Each will
have to decide, from their radically different points of view, whether to love
the new line or hate it. How they come to their decisions, and what they
decide, could affect the entertainment level of the photography newsgroups for
months or years to come.

- Are there more shoes that have to drop? Assuming they stop making the 50D,
there's a rather large price and performance gap between the 60D and the 7D.
Those hoping for a more powerful 50D or a cheaper 7D are left hanging so far.
To stay in the game with Nikon's various new models, Canon has to see that as
a problem to be addressed.

Bob
 
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Bruce
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-05-2010
Robert Coe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 19:45:45 +0100, Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>: Yes, of course I'm guessing, but based on two independent sources. One
>: was the very detailed rumour that originated in China and has been
>: very widely publicised. The other is less detailed, but probably a
>: lot more credible, from a long established UK based Canon dealer who
>: has recently returned from a visit to Canon in Japan and discussed
>: future products while he was there.
>:
>: Both suggested a sensor that is more or less the same size as Four
>: Thirds, but with a 3:2 aspect ratio. I can't get any more details out
>: of the Canon dealer, who would obviously be a more reliable source of
>: information, because *he* has signed an NDA, not me. It is a long
>: time since I signed one with a manufacturer or importer of camera
>: equipment. Clients are a different matter.
>
>So assuming that's all true, let's try to extrapolate a little. The 60D is in
>many respects a dumbed down 50D and in other respects a clone of the T2i. No
>current 50D owner is going to buy it (we're all eyeing the 7D or 8D anyway),
>but it threatens to render the T2i obsolete before the latter even reaches its
>first birthday. A plausible inference is that there will never be a T3i.
>Indeed, the putative pseudo Four-Thirds ("Three-Halves"?) camera(s) might
>constitute a replacement for the whole Rebel product line, and possibly the G
>series as well (i.e., no G-13). It could serve as a whole new form of bridge
>camera with the potential to encroach upwards or downwards on Canon's other
>lines if it sells well and to gracefully shrink out of existence if it
>doesn't.
>
>If you're with me this far, I'll throw out a few questions for discussion:
>
>- Will the new cameras accept at least Canon's existing EF-S lenses? If so,
>3rd-party vendors like Sigma and Tamron should happily roll with the punch. If
>not, or if Canon decides to maintain compatibility but provide the new cameras
>with their own, more cost-effective lens series, the 3rd parties could be
>royally screwed.



I think if Canon didn't offer compatibility with EF lenses, any
mirrorless system they offered would not sell. Every mirrorless
system so far has some level of compatibility with legacy lenses.


>- How will they be regarded by Rich Anderson and Supy the Troll? Each will
>have to decide, from their radically different points of view, whether to love
>the new line or hate it. How they come to their decisions, and what they
>decide, could affect the entertainment level of the photography newsgroups for
>months or years to come.



Rich will hate it. Unfortunately, he hates everything and everyone,
especially himself.


>- Are there more shoes that have to drop? Assuming they stop making the 50D,
>there's a rather large price and performance gap between the 60D and the 7D.
>Those hoping for a more powerful 50D or a cheaper 7D are left hanging so far.
>To stay in the game with Nikon's various new models, Canon has to see that as
>a problem to be addressed.



Canon has a breathing space because Nikon's line-up is temporarily in
a mess. In the consumer range, the entry-level D3100 is probably a
better proposition than the mid-range D5000. The new D7000 is
probably a better proposition than the prosumer D300s.

The D3100 makes an easy choice for someone wanting an entry-level
Nikon DSLR. But who would buy a D5000 when the D3100 is so good? Why
buy a D300s with only 12 MP when you can get a 16 MP D7000 for less
money?

For that matter, the D700's 12 MP pixel count always looked slightly
uncomfortable against the same number of pixels in the D300(s). Now,
a keen amateur prospective D700 buyer will wonder whether the D7000
offers him/her better value for money, and it probably does.

Nikon came comparatively late to full frame. There are millions of
Nikon DSLR users out there who have a selection of DX lenses (for
APS-C) and would face an expensive upgrade to full frame. So it isn't
just the high cost of the D700 (which sells in the UK at 95% of the
price of the Canon EOS 5D Mark II with 21.8 MP), it is also the cost
of buying lenses with full frame coverage.

As a Nikon user looking at the Canon range, I am very impressed with
the EOS 7D and T2i/550D with the excellent 18 MP sensor. Nikon's 16
MP D7000 competes with the 550D there is nothing to rival the 7D
except the D300s whose 12 MP looks inadequate.

Nikon also has the challenge of introducing its own mirrorless system.
No-one outside the company has the faintest idea what it will be like,
but you can be sure that the man-hours spent on its development will
detract from the development of the DSLR range.

So don't worry, Robert. There is something of a hiatus in Nikon's
product development and that means Nikon is in no position to reduce
Canon's market share. In recent months, Canon has successfully fought
back and regained market share at Nikon's expense. That can only
continue until Nikon gets its act together.

 
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Wolfgang Weisselberg
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      10-06-2010
Bruce <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Why buy a D300s with only 12 MP when you can get a 16 MP D7000 for
> less money?


These 4 MPix, do you think they improve my image?

-Wolfgang
 
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SMS
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      10-06-2010
On 10/6/2010 6:42 AM, Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
> Bruce<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Why buy a D300s with only 12 MP when you can get a 16 MP D7000 for
>> less money?

>
> These 4 MPix, do you think they improve my image?


Yes.
 
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